MD degrading RN

[Ann-RN]

I am working in the Operating Room about a month and I have observed some Surgeons who happened to degrade our Nursing profession. One incident happened when the surgeon got irritated of the room where he is doing the operation and the room has no air-con, he blamed it all to the scrub and the circulating nurses and told them how stupid they are. The surgeon even shouted it at the nurse's faces in front of everyone inside the room. Yes I understand that it is hard to do an operation when the room is warm but to shout at the nurses and tell them how stupid they are is a different story. We are also professional people and educated like these MD's and should not be treated such. Another common incident in the OR is when the MD got confused of the procedure or couldn't find the certain artery, nerve or even the specimen, the MD will again blame it all to the nurses as if we nurses are the "shock absorbers" of these MD's frustrations in life. Again the MD will shout, ask for the instrument in a yelling manner, would tell bad words to the nurses, tell how stupid nurses are etc. :lol_hitti

Does it has something to do with how much salary we nurses get compared to surgeons that is why they treat us like crap? I felt like they looked to us as if we are their servant, laborer or a peon. I don't want to see or even hear someone degrading our profession. :angryfire We are also professional and educated like MDs and we should not be treated such. Besides, no one should be treated this way because we are all human beings and deserve respect. Is there any chance that I could answer back these MDs and defend our beloved profession? :argue: I fear that my supervisors and superiors would not appreciate it if I answered back to MDs and instead they will defend the surgeon instead of me because it happened before when one nurse answered back to the doctor. Please tell me how and I will restore the dignity of nurses that these MD degraded. :innerconf

[suzanne4, RN]

i know.. my last statement was just a joke..

but it is an analogy.

if he messed up with u, teach him a lesson..

the starter's story never happened to me..

the mds ive dealt with were nice...

but if ever it will happen to me,

i will first confront the person concerned- the surgeon himself...

and tell him of his unprofessional conduct

before i complain him to the supervisors

sorry, but you never teach a lesson like that, you are only lowering yourself to their standards and that is grounds for you to be let go of your job. there are channels that need to be followed in the us, and you complete the case that has a patient on the operating room table, and then you can discuss it with the surgeon.

but remember:

the patient comes first, you are there as their advocate to protect them, and that is what your job is.

any issues are taken care of afterwards. or you will be finding yourself paying a very large cancellation fee for your contract that will fail to remain current. telling someone off during a case is not the way to get things done, you are only lowering yourself to their level, and that is not what you want to do, ever. more that likely, you will be the one to be firred and you will have to live with those consequences. and you will get fired.

[lawrence01]

to confront him while he's still "hot" will remind him to take hold of himself.

you dont need to tolerate his unacceptable behavior when u can do something right then and there..

but if it still doesnt work...

confront him again later... still with all respect and calmness

i'm sorry, but that is not done even in the philippines. much more when in the u.s.

you will be risking your job and the tables will turn on you when it's suppose to be the other way around. you will get reprimanded not just by the much older and experienced surgeon but by your immediate superiors.

do not make it a decision bet. you and the surgeon. you will loose.

you will also get "endorsed" to other mds and even to their residents and interns (if you're still not fired). i do hope you know what being "endorsed" in the phil. hospital setting means.

i think the proper term you should be using is to "talk" to the surgeon and not confront. confront, usually means w/ defiance and hostility.

even, trying to "talk" to someone sensibly when he is still obviously still hot under the collar turns out differently for the worse even if that's not what you wanted in the 1st place.

[angelcharm]

sorry, but you never teach a lesson like that, you are only lowering yourself to their standards and that is grounds for you to be let go of your job. there are channels that need to be followed in the us, and you complete the case that has a patient on the operating room table, and then you can discuss it with the surgeon.

but remember:

the patient comes first, you are there as their advocate to protect them, and that is what your job is.

any issues are taken care of afterwards. or you will be finding yourself paying a very large cancellation fee for your contract that will fail to remain current. telling someone off during a case is not the way to get things done, you are only lowering yourself to their level, and that is not what you want to do, ever. more that likely, you will be the one to be firred and you will have to live with those consequences. and you will get fired.

yup.. but say it nicely.. it doesnt hurt to remind him of his ill conduct.. i will be lowering myself if i will shout back at him... but no i wont be shouting..

you know how stressful it is in the or, you have a time to beat...

he needs to be reminded to keep his cool. for all you know, he doesnt even realize that he's creating fire.

yes the patient comes first.. thats the reason why the surgeon should keep his cool.

and here you are concluding that i will be fired because of being assertive?! iv never heard of such.

from the topic starter...

the surgeon even shouted it at the nurse's faces in front of everyone inside the room. yes i understand that it is hard to do an operation when the room is warm but to shout at the nurses and tell them how stupid they are is a different story. we are also professional people and educated like these md's and should not be treated such.

if we tolerate such behavior, we are giving them a reason to belittle us.. we are not maids. we are professionals.. and respect begets respect. dont think that just because they are mds they have every right to belittle us...

if he continuosly belittle the nurses, then he ought to be reported to proper authorities... to the hosp supervisors.

[angelcharm]

i'm sorry, but that is not done even in the philippines. much more when in the u.s.

you will be risking your job and the tables will turn on you when it's suppose to be the other way around. you will get reprimanded not just by the much older and experienced surgeon but by your immediate superiors.

do not make it a decision bet. you and the surgeon. you will loose.

you will also get "endorsed" to other mds and even to their residents and interns (if you're still not fired). i do hope you know what being "endorsed" in the phil. hospital setting means.

i think the proper term you should be using is to "talk" to the surgeon and not confront. confront, usually means w/ defiance and hostility.

even, trying to "talk" to someone sensibly when he is still obviously still hot under the collar turns out differently for the worse even if that's not what you wanted in the 1st place.

i see your point.. the tables will turn against me huh?!

iv never met hostile surgeons before in the or...

all our operations went on smoothly. even the interns respect us.

our nursing service is separated from the mds so doctors cant fire me unless i work for them.

btw, to confront the surgeon is not making a decision between me and the surgeon...

it is giving him an option for an efficient working relationship.

ok so maybe the term should not be confront.. hehe...

but i still do think it should be confront.

what makes them so highly anyway?!

and why would i be fired for grounds of assertiveness?!

[suzanne4, RN]

to confront him while he's still "hot" will remind him to take hold of himself.

you dont need to tolerate his unacceptable behavior when u can do something right then and there..

but if it still doesnt work...

confront him again later... still with all respect and calmness

sorry, but you never ever do this, it will get you in more hot water than the doctor gets himself into.

you are there as the advocate of the patient, and take that into consideration.

we do things differently in the us, and to do what you want to do is actually grounds to get yourself fired.

all that you would do is to cause things to excalate and cause your patinet to be under anesthesia longer.

you finish the case, avoiding the situation will actually cause the surgeon to take notice.............do not talk to him other that about immediate needs, etc. and get the case done and then report it. period. your patient comes first, and no exceptions to that. the two of you get into a heated argument and things get delayed and then your neck is on the line as well.

administration will deal with the surgeon, and that is their responsibility, not yours. but for what you want to do, it can get you the boot out the door for putting your patient's safety at risk, and that will show up on your records for years and years.

and not all surgeons are hims.................they are many female surgeons as well.

[angelcharm]

sorry, but you never ever do this, it will get you in more hot water than the doctor gets himself into.

you are there as the advocate of the patient, and take that into consideration.

we do things differently in the us, and to do what you want to do is actually grounds to get yourself fired.

all that you would do is to cause things to excalate and cause your patinet to be under anesthesia longer.

you finish the case, avoiding the situation will actually cause the surgeon to take notice.............do not talk to him other that about immediate needs, etc. and get the case done and then report it. period. your patient comes first, and no exceptions to that. the two of you get into a heated argument and things get delayed and then your neck is on the line as well.

administration will deal with the surgeon, and that is their responsibility, not yours. but for what you want to do, it can get you the boot out the door for putting your patient's safety at risk, and that will show up on your records for years and years.

and not all surgeons are hims.................they are many female surgeons as well.

that is your opinion i respect it...

of course u have all responsibility with the patient. its not as if you are goin to leave your patient there hanging. i even mentioned earlier that u have a time to beat in the or.. so it would be more efficient if both parties are willing to make the environment conducive for working.

a feminist view... i apologize. and yes not all surgeons are male.

[lawrence01]

Just want to share another article for everyone to read. This is about assertiveness and aggressiveness. It is a good read.

http://www.utexas.edu/student/cmhc/booklets/assert/assertive.html

[lawrence01]

I would also like to give a friendly reminder to everyone that we should use terms properly. Do not use a term more than it should or mean.

Their is a difference between being assertive, aggressive or confrontational.

Situations like this and other ways to analyze a behavior of a would-be employee are sometimes asked during interviews for jobs in the U.S. and if one uses a term, such as confront; the interviewer will recognize it as being defiant w/ some hostility when in fact we only mean to be assertive. Assertive, meaning, to stand by your rights and not get trampled upon while still maintaining respect to the other person's own rights as well.

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

One incident happened when the surgeon got irritated of the room where he is doing the operation and the room has no air-con, he blamed it all to the scrub and the circulating nurses and told them how stupid they are. The surgeon even shouted it at the nurse’s faces in front of everyone inside the room.

Did you try going up behind him to blow on his neck? Just call your supervisor and ask for an extra nurse to provide the extra human-blown air circulation that he demands. It's so ridiculous, surely even he would see it if you could present it in a humorous way.

Of course he was completely out of line, but making him feel stupid humorously might be more effective that an outright conflict.

[sofia_815]

Some doctors are really bossy and hot-tempered:angryfire , but Filipino doctors should learn to tame down their tempers and arrogant attitude towards nurses, because nowadays, a lot of their fellow doctors shift to nursing career and we all know why.

[lots_of_luv]

Just think to yourself that how can a smart person be a surgeon but be stupid when it comes to dealing with co-workers like nurses. There is no excuse for his bad attitude but let it pass one ear and exit the other. Be thankful that this is not you or like you at all... he is pathetic, so sad to turn into a person like that!

Just don't let it get to you. Don't take it personally, you already know what you went through and what you're capable of when you were in Nursing school...

[jjcabales,RN]

Can we file a case against that MD..?because i myself experienced that..the doctor called me stupid because I made an error in writing the doctors SMS order (if that's even legal). I wrote "levodopa" instead of "levophed". I noticed that I wrote the wrong word so I erased it with a single line, wrote error, countersigned and wrote the correct word. She saw what I did and called me stupid in front of a lot of people. What I did was right, right? We were taught to write error and countersign if we made a mistake in writing. She just don't want to see the order sheet "dirty" so she called me stupid. I want to file a case. Is that even possible?