Mc Donalds pays more for CNA with 8 yrs exp

FocusRN · Feb 12, 2005

:rotfl: Thanks, I needed that.:rotfl:

It may be funny to you but that is the sad thing about it. Where I have worked that is all the requirements really were. I don't doubt that is you place of employment things are different, but come take a hope skip and jump down here, and you'd be suprised.

FocusRN · Feb 12, 2005

More often than not, in health care, we are paid for what we know as well as for what we do. I've been a CNA and I know how physically demanding the job is, but the LPNs and RNs have a much greater liability if something goes wrong, are expected to problem solve and handle emergencies, have a much greated knowledge of disease processes, medications, etc. I don't disagree that in most places CNAs deserve to be paid more, but I doubt that RNs and LPNs would be willing to do what they do for only a few dollars more than the CNAs make...if CNA wages go up, the RN and LPN wages had better go up too. Part of the problem is that there are very few CNAs, RNs, or LPNs who are in in simply for the money...most of us like what we do and are not actively willing to stand up and demand more money...what would a facility do if every CNA went in and demanded more money?

As someone else said, people are now paid for education, especially in the healthcare industry but not always. And yes, nurses do have more liability, if something goes wrong. With that said they should be making sure that nothing will go wrong, and most that I have seen first hand don't. I work in an Alzhiemer's Unit, the nurse that I usually worked will always went to sleep, without a problem. Well, one day it caught up with here when one of the residents, flipped the switch to unlock the door when she was sleeping, and exscaped into the night. The polic caught up with him about two hours later though. But, did that fall on the nurse? No. It fell on the CNA that was working that side of the unit. And. where was she at the time? At the other end of the hall helping someone that got out of bed and slipped in their urine. That should have fell on the nurse, number one because she has more liability, and even if it was the CNS's fault, she is riding on the nurses lisence anyway, and number two because the nurse was at fault. Another nurse that worked that unit sometimes, just came in, clocked in,made sure everyone was on the unit, left the LTC, and came back at 5 when it was tim to get everyone up.

Nurse may have a grater knowledge of disease processes, and meds, but the question is do their jobs require them to use this knowledge. And not all of them do. Some nurse that I have seen don't even know not to crush a time release pill. And that is one of the most basic things to know about meds.

And last but not least, I am not saying that CNA pay should just be $5 away from a nurses pay, because we all should be paid more, (well the good ones atleast). But at the same time, it has to be said that, moving and lifting men and women 3x your size, cleaning up urine and bm, be "housekeeping", and numerous other resposibilities, should be worth more that someone flipping burgers.

chocolate_eyes585 · Feb 12, 2005

:chair: I know this message is a little old who knows if you still chat on this site, but i am new i just joined today, and i am reading about all the bad stuff about being a CNA, my plans are to work as a CNA while i am attending tennessee state university for my Associates degree, maybe bachelors but i have not been accepted yet, right now i a completing the required courses, but i thought this would be a good job for me to get the basics of the hospital environent, and at first the comments were making me reconsider... but your message helped me regain confidence in my choice. just wanted to say thanks!,

CA CoCoRN, RN · Feb 12, 2005

This is not to be discouraging or whatnot...but let's face it: regardless of the amount of money, time and energy spent preparing one's self, CNA is an Entry Level Position. As such, it's wages are at the "bottom" of the scale.

Just as every RN doesn't start off making the amount that I, after 6 years, make after becoming a specialty nurse in my department. And when I gain further ed. and skill, I will earn more. 'Tis only fair.

Shucks, I could b*tch and moan that Obstetricians tending to delivering mothers in the hospital do less than 1/4 the "work" (on your average laboring pt), and simply come and "catch the baby"...yet they get the big bucks. Even pt's wonder, "Where's the doctor?"...and I tell them, "They'll come when it's the very time to deliver." They realize it's the NURSE who's there all the time...but we don't get "fairly compensated".

It is, however, the nature of the business. When/if I don't like it or can't accept it anymore, I'll step away. Till then, I'll lobby for better wages (comensurate with education) and carry on...making a difference from within.

CA CoCoRN, RN · Feb 12, 2005

The reality here is that we live in a knowledge-based society nowadays. Employers pay more for education and expertise, not the physical demands of the job. That's why CNAs are paid so little for the backbreaking work they do. I'm starting to understand this (and I am an aide myself).
Please don't shoot me if I sound ignorant. :sofahider

Actually...I believe you are correct. Just look at technological fields: it's not necessarily "hard" (as in back-breaking), but intensively KNOWLEDGE BASED!!!

And they get paid handsomely for that knowledge as their expertise increases.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Feb 12, 2005

Employers pay more for education and expertise, not the physical demands of the job.

Yep. I agree.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Feb 12, 2005

At one facility i worked at, the CNAs made $0.25 more an hour than housekeeping and dietary. I worked there as a housekeeper, instead of a CNA. That extra quarter wasn't enough to buy the Excedrin needed to be a CNA there.

CA CoCoRN, RN · Feb 12, 2005

As someone else said, people are now paid for education, especially in the healthcare industry but not always. And yes, nurses do have more liability, if something goes wrong. With that said they should be making sure that nothing will go wrong, and most that I have seen first hand don't. I work in an Alzhiemer's Unit, the nurse that I usually worked will always went to sleep, without a problem. Well, one day it caught up with here when one of the residents, flipped the switch to unlock the door when she was sleeping, and exscaped into the night. The polic caught up with him about two hours later though. But, did that fall on the nurse? No. It fell on the CNA that was working that side of the unit. And. where was she at the time? At the other end of the hall helping someone that got out of bed and slipped in their urine. That should have fell on the nurse, number one because she has more liability, and even if it was the CNS's fault, she is riding on the nurses lisence anyway, and number two because the nurse was at fault. Another nurse that worked that unit sometimes, just came in, clocked in,made sure everyone was on the unit, left the LTC, and came back at 5 when it was tim to get everyone up.
Nurse may have a grater knowledge of disease processes, and meds, but the question is do their jobs require them to use this knowledge. And not all of them do. Some nurse that I have seen don't even know not to crush a time release pill. And that is one of the most basic things to know about meds.
And last but not least, I am not saying that CNA pay should just be $5 away from a nurses pay, because we all should be paid more, (well the good ones atleast). But at the same time, it has to be said that, moving and lifting men and women 3x your size, cleaning up urine and bm, be "housekeeping", and numerous other resposibilities, should be worth more that someone flipping burgers.

In response to the bolded quote...last time I checked my RN licensure from the state of CA, only my name was listed. That is to say that anyone working in any capacity is ONLY working with his or own license.

You can't "work under" mine. Therefore, if I'm being negligent in supervising a subordinate, then I can be found guilty of that on my own. HOWEVER, that does not excuse nor recuse the subordinate of responsibility along their own line of negligence, in whatever capacity that may be.

Also, maybe you have limited experience outside of your work environment, but please understand that as there are lazy RNs and LVNs, there are problematic CNAs. Even *clutch the pearls and gasp* lazy doctors.

It's all human nature. By the by, on units where CNAs are NOT used in direct patient care, the RN is responsible for EVERYTHING, from wiping behinds and lifting massively obese patients to care of that Swan-Ganz. :rolleyes:

Jo Dirt · Feb 12, 2005

After working for four years in a nursing home (as an LPN) I decided to try something different and went into private duty nursing. Before that I was a CNA for 9 months. Both roles stink (but especially the CNA job)

If I have to pick up cans on the side of the road I will never work in a nursing home again.

FocusRN · Feb 12, 2005

In response to the bolded quote...last time I checked my RN licensure from the state of CA, only my name was listed. That is to say that anyone working in any capacity is ONLY working with his or own license.
You can't "work under" mine. Therefore, if I'm being negligent in supervising a subordinate, then I can be found guilty of that on my own. HOWEVER, that does not excuse nor recuse the subordinate of responsibility along their own line of negligence, in whatever capacity that may be.
Also, maybe you have limited experience outside of your work environment, but please understand that as there are lazy RNs and LVNs, there are problematic CNAs. Even *clutch the pearls and gasp* lazy doctors.
It's all human nature. By the by, on units where CNAs are NOT used in direct patient care, the RN is responsible for EVERYTHING, from wiping behinds and lifting massively obese patients to care of that Swan-Ganz.

Okay, well where I am from in LA, a CNA, although certified works on a nurses lisence. And if you think about it, it really makes sense. A CNA is directed and supervised by a nurse (or atleast that is how it is supposed to be), so in turn if the CNA did something wrong so did the nurse, by not properly supervising that person. Now, in direct response to what is in bold, that would all depend on the situation. In the situation that I gave, the nurse was negligent in supervising her subordinate, and the subordnate, should have been exceused. That is simply because the nurse was sleeping, and at the nuses station mind you where the switch was to unlock the unit, on the job while the CNA, was working with a patient, in the patients room, and therefore could not see, down the hall. The patient that got out, had to unlock the latch on the nurse's station door, walk right by the nurse, flip the switch, walk by the nurse again, and then leave the unit. If the nurse had been awake this wouldn't have been possible. All the while the CNA was doing her job, or would you rather her let a patient lay on the floor, in urine, while she stood in the hall just watching, while the nurse was asleep?

NurseFirst · Feb 14, 2005

Actually, I've met CNAs who have worked long term at a hospital (5+ yrs) who were making $22/hr. (This is Northern California, folks.) I also met a housekeeping person who worked at the County hospital for 20 years who was making about the same.

NurseFirst

Yeah, I can't believe it either. But it's true: CNA's are horribly underpaid.
In California, you might do a little better than minimum wage, but only by $1 per hour. Not worth it when it costs about $600 or more just to get your CNA license.
Of course, one of the nursing homes in my area seems to have plenty of money for managers who sit around all day. I've never seen so much administration at a nursing home .. they have like a dozen managers.
That's more managers than CNA's. Especially since they can't keep CNA's.
Turnover is very high ... sigh ...
Unfortunately, business as usual ...

imenid37 · Feb 14, 2005

Some areas pay horribly. Others not so bad. I last made $6.50/hr as an NA (took hospital course) in 1984-87 while going to school for my RN. It was in a hospital in Baltimore. The work was hard, but not awful like it is in a nursing home. I can't believe people are still working for basically the same wages I did almost 20 years ago. I think we are somewhat underpaid as RN's, but that CNA' and LPN's are grossly underpaid. I am not sure what my current employer pays CNA's, but I do know WALmart pays more because many leave to work there. How pitiful is that? No wonder we can't get quality people in many LTC facilities. I know many elderly have to have a large amount of assets to get into some of these facilities that are paying their caregivers a dismal wage. Hmmm? Wonder who's making all the money.