Marijuana for everyone!

allnurses Guide · Jul 16, 2005

Regarding my sister again - studies show that early use of marijuana can lead to other dependencies. So I have to wonder if she hadn't spent the night at her friend's house . . . .

"Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they use the drug compulsively even though it often interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. According to the 2003 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), an estimated 21.6 million Americans aged 12 or older were classified with substance dependence or abuse (9.1 percent of the total population). Of the estimated 6.9 million Americans classified with dependence on or abuse of illicit drugs, 4.2 million were dependent on or abused marijuana.57 In 2002, 15 percent of people entering drug abuse treatment programs reported that marijuana was their primary drug of abuse.58"

"Along with craving, withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug.49 People trying to quit report irritability, difficulty sleeping, and anxiety.59,60 They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately 1 week after they last used the drug.61"

"In addition to its addictive liability, research indicates that early exposure to marijuana can increase the likelihood of a lifetime of subsequent drug problems. A recent study of over 300 fraternal and identical twin pairs, who differed on whether or not they used marijuana before the age of 17, found that those who had used marijuana early had elevated rates of other drug use and drug problems later on, compared with their twins, who did not use marijuana before age 17. This study re-emphasizes the importance of primary prevention by showing that early drug initiation is associated with increased risk of later drug problems, and it provides more evidence for why preventing marijuana experimentation during adolescence could have an impact on preventing addiction.62"

http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReports/Marijuana/Marijuana4.html#addictive

traumahawk99 · Jul 17, 2005

I've been drunk, high, and stoned. :)
I just went wine tasting in Napa . . . :)
But to make a blanket statement that those who are against legalizing pot for recreational use are therefore in favor of abusing or even using alcohol is preposterous.
steph

what if someone hates alcohol and wants to use marijuana to chill? it's hardly preposterous to say that people who support criminalization of marijuana by and large use alcohol as their drug of choice. it's reality, and to say otherwise is preposterous. and of course, they're getting their high. it's legal to get ****faced drunk, but you're a criminal if you hit a joint? come on. it's a waste of resources to prosecute people for this. not to mention that it's utterly ineffective.

and you haven't addressed why societies that don't criminalize marijuana haven't crumbled. if it's so terrible, why aren't they all laying around, too stoned to move, and progressed to crack cocaine?

what about aggression associated with alcohol? how many people have harmed others while drunk vs stoned? if you're against marijuana, then you should be against alcohol too. the effects of drinking alcohol are documented so well that there is no argument. why aren't you for prohibition? because it's your choice of substance to relax with? do you care about the effects of alcohol on society? if alcholism is the 3rd leading cause of death in this county, why aren't you out on a mission to stop it?

allnurses Guide · Jul 17, 2005

what if someone hates alcohol and wants to use marijuana to chill? it's hardly preposterous to say that people who support criminalization of marijuana by and large use alcohol as their drug of choice. it's reality, and to say otherwise is preposterous. and of course, they're getting their high. it's legal to get ****faced drunk, but you're a criminal if you hit a joint? come on. it's a waste of resources to prosecute people for this. not to mention that it's utterly ineffective.
and you haven't addressed why societies that don't criminalize marijuana haven't crumbled. if it's so terrible, why aren't they all laying around, too stoned to move, and progressed to crack cocaine?
what about aggression associated with alcohol? how many people have harmed others while drunk vs stoned? if you're against marijuana, then you should be against alcohol too. the effects of drinking alcohol are documented so well that there is no argument. why aren't you for prohibition? because it's your choice of substance to relax with? do you care about the effects of alcohol on society? if alcholism is the 3rd leading cause of death in this county, why aren't you out on a mission to stop it?

As I've said, we can't go back and prohibit the use of alcohol. Even though it makes people feel better to say that if you are against pot you have to be against alcohol, there is no way to change the fact that alcohol is legal and so I think your argument is a straw man. The question is not why don't we try prohibition of alcohol in order to be intellectually honest (there is no way to go back) . . .the question is since alcohol is legal, where do we go from here? Do we then pile on other ways for people to become intoxicated legally? After pot, what is next? Meth? In my opinion, that is a mistake. You are free to feel otherwise.

I AM on a mission to stop the irresponsible among us who use alcohol in a way that hurts others. My best friend in college was killed by a drunk driver who had numerous previous arrests for drunk driving. I'm a strong supporter of Mother's Against Drunk Driving and I have been associated with the "Every 15 Minutes" campaign that is put on by the CHP and others on high school campuses. In fact my oldest son was one of the actors who was actually airlifted to our local hospital during the whole drama. I have NO tolerance for those who choose to put others at risk. I unfortunately had to witness a good friend in a very bad car accident right in front of me and when I ran to his door, there were liquor bottles strewn all over and he reeked of etoh. My youngest son saw this and to this day always tells us to put our seat belts on so we "don't look like Martin", who was bloody and bruised but otherwise unharmed - he is lucky I backed off when I saw him all over the road and he is lucky no one was coming the other way. I am also a L&D nurse who sees the effect of alcohol and illegal drugs on newborns. I have a nephew with fetal alcohol syndrome. I have many other irons in the fire so to speak regarding this so please don't presume to be able to read my mind. I do try very hard to make a difference.

The negative effects of pot are ALSO documented - why do you keep denying there is any negative outcome for people who use pot?

This thread is about the use of pot for medical purposes - not recreational use although that seems to have become the way this thread is going.

We aren't going to change each other's minds . . . .

steph

traumahawk99 · Jul 17, 2005

you still haven't addressed why the other countries where it isn't criminalized haven't fallen apart. where is the evidence? if it hasn't happened in those countries, why would it happen here?

equating pot with meth is not the same. that's like saying if we allow gay people to get married, people will be marrying animals and furniture.

the worst thing about marijuana is that it's been wrongfully criminalized, given it's relative level of harm. certainly, it's not good for you, but it's nowhere near as destructive as alcohol or cigarettes or eating high fat/sugar diets, which are legal. it's a matter of personal rights.

and yes, i'm saying i have a right to use this natural herb, and society is wrong to deny this if i'm not causing anyone else harm. and responsible marijuana use is just that, harmless to others. arresting otherwise law abiding citizens for this is a tragedy, and keeping it illegal is pointless.

no, we aren't going to agree.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jul 18, 2005

heh. so far, 59% support outright legalization. those are the cool nurses! party on :).

:uhoh3: This is not a popularity contest!

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jul 18, 2005

But to make a blanket statement that those who are against legalizing pot for recreational use are therefore in favor of abusing or even using alcohol is preposterous.

THANK YOU.

allnurses Guide · Jul 21, 2005

you still haven't addressed why the other countries where it isn't criminalized haven't fallen apart. where is the evidence? if it hasn't happened in those countries, why would it happen here?
equating pot with meth is not the same. that's like saying if we allow gay people to get married, people will be marrying animals and furniture.
the worst thing about marijuana is that it's been wrongfully criminalized, given it's relative level of harm. certainly, it's not good for you, but it's nowhere near as destructive as alcohol or cigarettes or eating high fat/sugar diets, which are legal. it's a matter of personal rights.
and yes, i'm saying i have a right to use this natural herb, and society is wrong to deny this if i'm not causing anyone else harm. and responsible marijuana use is just that, harmless to others. arresting otherwise law abiding citizens for this is a tragedy, and keeping it illegal is a right wing circle jerk.
no, we aren't going to agree.

I find the argument that it is just a natural herb and therefore not harmful or at least not very harmful funny. There are many things that grow naturally that are not good for us and some are actually poisonous. Try gathering mushrooms without some education regarding which are the good ones and which are the poisonous ones. So the "herb" argument holds no water for me. :)

I have mentioned stats from other countries where pot and other drugs were legalized and the usage rate greatly increased, so those laws were reversed.

The argument regarding crime involved in growing and selling pot is the one that gets to me the most . . . supposedly if you make it legal, you take all the criminals out of it.

So, because organized crime is involved or street gangs are involved, we need to legalize it means that meth should be legalized too . . . Much of our country's meth supply is made in super labs in Mexico and So. Ca and is run by organized crime and street gangs and one-third is produced in "mom-and-pop" meth labs in hotel rooms, homes, garages and even in the trunks of cars. The labs have bred a crime wave of burglaries, thefts and even murder. But does anyone really think the answer to crime associated with meth is "LET'S JUST LEGALIZE IT AND ALL THE CRIME WILL GO AWAY".

No. We go after the dealers and put them in jail.

You may not think that meth and pot are comparable in relation to harm and you are right about that but they both create a crime circle that the pot lovers say would be solved if you legalized pot . .. .but you deal with the crime associated with meth by arresting those dealers.

I'm not a member of a right wing circle jerk - not having the correct appendage for that activity - :rolleyes:

steph

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jul 21, 2005

I'm not a member of a right wing circle jerk - not having the correct appendage for that activity

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(And neither am i)

traumahawk99 · Jul 21, 2005

you take all the criminals out of it? no, you just wouldn't be criminalizing people for it. there's quite a difference. i think the average smoker would grow his or her own. certainly there would be no illicit money in it. when alcohol was illegal, there was much crime associated with its production and distribution. what happened to those criminals?

meth is a very harmful substance. i don't see potsmokers robbing a convenience store to get the next fix or smoking a joint and flying into a violent rage (though that does happen with alcohol). lumping marijuana in with "other drugs" doesn't hold water, it just equates them in a way that isn't born out by reality.

and it's funny how you mentioned that a friend was killed by a drunk driver, yet you certainly aren't calling for alcohol to be illegal. you even claim responsible use, and that you can't roll back the clock. if that same person had been killed by a pot smoking driver (vastly more unlikely), you'd be here raising the roof as to the evils of marijuana.

do you think the legality of alcohol promotes its use? what is the % of deaths and lost productivity attributed to alcoholism? do they somehow not matter? of does that fact that it's your choice of recreational substance justify their misery?

if marijuana is illegal, then alcohol should be as well, based on the level of harm associated with those substances.

i've said what i have to say with this thread. we're only going in circles :).

allnurses Guide · Jul 22, 2005

you take all the criminals out of it? no, you just wouldn't be criminalizing people for it. there's quite a difference. i think the average smoker would grow his or her own. certainly there would be no illicit money in it. when alcohol was illegal, there was much crime associated with its production and distribution. what happened to those criminals?there are people who say if we legalize it, organized crime, theft, etc. would be taken out of the picture. and re: alcohol - you cannot roll back the clock - it is completely unrealistic to think so.
meth is a very harmful substance. i don't see potsmokers robbing a convenience store to get the next fix or smoking a joint and flying into a violent rage (though that does happen with alcohol). lumping marijuana in with "other drugs" doesn't hold water, it just equates them in a way that isn't born out by reality.pot smokers do illegal things - i've personally seen the "flying into rages" and abusing their wife and kids, robbing someone of money to get their next baggie of weed, etc. there is crime associated with marijuana use.
and it's funny how you mentioned that a friend was killed by a drunk driver, yet you certainly aren't calling for alcohol to be illegal. you even claim responsible use, and that you can't roll back the clock. if that same person had been killed by a pot smoking driver (vastly more unlikely), you'd be here raising the roof as to the evils of marijuana.the reason i'm not calling for alcohol to be illegal is that is unrealistic and won't ever happen and so why waste my time on that? why would a pot smoking driver be "vastly more unlikely" to have impaired driving ability??? i am raising the roof as to the "evils of marijuana" .. :-)
do you think the legality of alcohol promotes its use? what is the % of deaths and lost productivity attributed to alcoholism? do they somehow not matter? of does that fact that it's your choice of recreational substance justify their misery?yes of course i think the legality of alcohol promotes its use. of course it matters that people become alcoholics. but again, trying to outlaw alcohol is just a moot point. you do have a point that because i drink wine with dinner, i'm a bit of a hypocrite but there ya go.
if marijuana is illegal, then alcohol should be as well, based on the level of harm associated with those substances.again, won't happen. ever. so why even go there?
i've said what i have to say with this thread. we're only going in circles :).

ah well, circles again. :)

my bottom line is that we already have a huge problem with the legal substance called alcohol so why add to the misery with legalizing pot?

thanks for the interesting conversation though - :)

steph

allnurses Guide · Jul 22, 2005

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(And neither am i)

Thank God Marie - I've always been pretty sure you were a girl!

steph

Brotherbob, BSN, RN · Jul 22, 2005

My bottom line is that we already have a huge problem with the legal substance called alcohol so why add to the misery with legalizing pot?
steph

I agree, no need for more misery.

Robert

Marijuana for everyone!

Should marijuana be legal?