Management bonuses

[lee1]

Do you know what kind of bonuses your nurse managers get???

Do you think it is ethical, especially if it has anything to do with your unit budget?

What budgetary things can they control to come in UNDER budget????

[llg, PhD, RN]

For the record ... at my hospital, the staff nurses get retention bonuses and the managers and educators get none. Nor do manages and educators get paid at all for any hours they put in over 40 per week. Any hours worked over 40 are worked "for free." Which means that per hour of work ... the managers and educators are often paid less than the staff nurses.

As far as managers getting bonuses based on financial performance ... yes, I believe it is ethical. If they can successfully run their unit and save the institution money, then they deserve a reward. They're probably not getting many other rewards!

They can save money on personnel by maintaining good morale among the staff -- lowering turnover and saving the hospital on the cost of paying overtime and hiring travelers to fill in the schedule holes. That can be a huge expense that a good manager can reduce.

Similarly, they can save money by planning ahead in terms of scheduling, thereby reducing the need for last-minute schedule fixes that can get expensive.

They can save money for the hospital by preventing the wasteful usage of supplies. You'd be supprised at how much some things cost that have a habit of "walking away" or getting contaminated so that they have to be thrown out. A good supply management system can save thousands of dollars.

They can save the hospital hundreds of thousands of dollars (millions?) by reducing the number of lawsuits filed against their staff -- by assuring high quality care and good customer relations.

Good managers are worth their weight in gold to an organization. They are often grossly underpaid. The bonus system is one method of "pay for performance" for that group of people -- a way for some of the star performers to get some extra reward. Why do some people applaud pay-for-performance for staff nurses, yet criticize it for managers?

Of course, any particular system could be poorly conceived and/or poorly run. But if it is done well, I am all for it. --- and I am in the education department -- I am not a manager.

llg

[SmilingBluEyes]

I would NOT begrudge a manager getting big bonuses and pay increases. Then, maybe we can attract better managers who actually know what the staff does on the floor and CARE. I think bonuses should be given managers who receive excellent feedback from staff and really DO care about them. I have worked for managers like that.......they are amazing and so great to work for.

The above poster is right; a really good manager is worth his/her weight in gold. They DESERVE excellent compensation.

[lee1]

I would NOT begrudge a manager getting big bonuses and pay increases. Then, maybe we can attract better managers who actually know what the staff does on the floor and CARE. I think bonuses should be given managers who receive excellent feedback from staff and really DO care about them. I have worked for managers like that.......they are amazing and so great to work for.

The above poster is right; a really good manager is worth his/her weight in gold. They DESERVE excellent compensation.

I would agree also if I did indeed work for one. However, what I have recently seen is positions cut, nurses doing more non nursing work, par levels which are needed cut so that supplies necessary are not found, nurses having higher pt/nurse ratios, less ancillary support. AND managers getting bonuses. Somehow, this does NOT equate ethically.

I certainly would support better retention, better pt satisfaction, better employee satisfaction, better control of those few parameters which a manager may find wasteful or redundant, attainment of personal goals, motivation of your staff to obtain personal goals, meeting the hospital mission statement, upholding high standards of care, reducing workplace injuries by instituting "a culture of safety" via less med errors, less needlesticks, less muscular strain injuries related to manual movement of patients.

BUT, just coming in under budget by increasing nurse/pt ratios, trimming needed par levels, deleting ancillary staff-------NO !!!!

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

Back in December 2004 my clinical site was a convalescent facility. I overheard the nurses fuming with jealousy and resentment that the manager was going on a company-paid week-long cruise after the Christmas party.

I'm unaware of his other bonus packages.

[llg, PhD, RN]

OK, Lee1, you're unhappy with your current employer. Some of the problems might be your immediate supervisor's fault ... but some may be the fault of his/her bosses. If you are that unhappy with your current situation, then maybe you should find another place to work. There are good managers and good administrators out there. When people start migrating to them and stop tolerating the bad guys, things have better chance of improving overall.

Good luck,

llg

[lee1]

OK, Lee1, you're unhappy with your current employer. Some of the problems might be your immediate supervisor's fault ... but some may be the fault of his/her bosses. If you are that unhappy with your current situation, then maybe you should find another place to work. There are good managers and good administrators out there. When people start migrating to them and stop tolerating the bad guys, things have better chance of improving overall.

Good luck,

llg

AHH, the old just move on answer if you are unhappy, but never solve the problem. I am not saying that I am unhappy, it is a ethical question and open for discussion.

Maybe there should be national standards for this type of thing especially in non-profit hospitals where large portions are coming from tax supported dollars-----like Medicare, etc.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

As long as the manager doesn't abuse it. Such as not getting you the supplies you need because "it's not in the budget", or running you short staffed under the guise there isn't anyone available, when she's really just trying to balance the budget.

The potential for selfish abuse is there. However, as was pointed out above, a good manager is worth their weight in gold.

Managers work hard for the money and don't always get compensated very well, sometimes new managers barely make above what some of their staff is making, less sometimes because the staff person is getting paid for their overtime. (I've never seen an educator in our hospital but in more hours than she/he gets paid for though.) So, I don't begrudge them a few extra perks, and wouldn't gripe if they got a bonus or a cruise.

[llg, PhD, RN]

AHH, the old just move on answer if you are unhappy, but never solve the problem. I am not saying that I am unhappy, it is a ethical question and open for discussion.

Maybe there should be national standards for this type of thing especially in non-profit hospitals where large portions are coming from tax supported dollars-----like Medicare, etc.

If you are prepared to stay with your current and try to improve things, then good for you. I didn't sense that in your posts. Certainly, that is a positive course of action. However, in my many years as a nurse, I have seen many nurses fall into the trap of thinking that they are being noble to "stick out the tough conditions" and "try to make it work" and "try to improve things" when, in reality they are beating their heads against a wall. The situation does not improve and they simply become victims of burn out and abuse.

If you don't see positive improvements as a result of your attempts at improvement, then it is sometimes best to leave. Some abusive systems only change when they fail to find willing victims.

As far as the ethics question goes ... Do you feel that anyone should ever be rewarded for the quality of their performance? In other words, do you believe everyone in the same job category should get the same pay regardless of the quality of their performance? Or does an employer have the right to reward high performers more than low performes? That's a key question ... because if SOME people can be rewarded for high quality performance, then why not managers?

It may be that you simply don't like the criteria that your employer is using to evaluate the performance of their managers. If that is the case ... then pay-for-performance isn't the real issue. Your real issue is that you disagree with your employer's CHOICE OF VALUES and not with the fact that they choose to reward their managers based on those values. That's a different issue from the original question you posed.

llg

[llg, PhD, RN]

(I've never seen an educator in our hospital but in more hours than she/he gets paid for though.) .

I have been in staff development for many years and most educators I have seen DO work extra hours for free. Unfortunately, the staff nurses often don't appreciate that fact because a lot of the actual work of an educator takes place out of view from the staff. The very nature of educational work usually involves a lot of researching, thinking, planning, writing, etc. -- and that type of work can often be done best AWAY from the hustle and bustle of a busy patient care unit. Reading, class preparation, etc. often take place in an office away from the unit or at home. Out of sight=out of mind ... but it doesn't mean they are not working.

Many educators I have known (like me) DO limit their hospital time and/or time on the units because they know that they have an additional load of "thinking work" to do that they can't get done on the unit because of the many distractions. The "thinking work" gets done elsewhere -- and often at home or in the car, etc. on "our own time."

Of course, you may have run into a few bad ones along the way. Every group has its losers. :-) But please don't assume that nurse educators are working only when you can see them.

llg

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I have been in staff development for many years and most educators I have seen DO work extra hours for free. Unfortunately, the staff nurses often don't appreciate that fact because a lot of the actual work of an educator takes place out of view from the staff. The very nature of educational work usually involves a lot of researching, thinking, planning, writing, etc. -- and that type of work can often be done best AWAY from the hustle and bustle of a busy patient care unit. Reading, class preparation, etc. often take place in an office away from the unit or at home. Out of sight=out of mind ... but it doesn't mean they are not working.

Many educators I have known (like me) DO limit their hospital time and/or time on the units because they know that they have an additional load of "thinking work" to do that they can't get done on the unit because of the many distractions. The "thinking work" gets done elsewhere -- and often at home or in the car, etc. on "our own time."

Of course, you may have run into a few bad ones along the way. Every group has its losers. :-) But please don't assume that nurse educators are working only when you can see them.

llg

Points well taken. I can say with assurance our educator doesn't work overtime. (She's the mother of a two year old and a grad student). But I know what you're saying. She gives us inservices and who am I to say she isn't on her home computer at night updating her reasearch and presentation. And I can't judge the profressional of educators on ours (and I love her, she's smart, she does a fantastic job, she's a role model to me).

Of course, getting nitpicky, when I was a charge nurse I would come in an do some things off the clock that I was too busy to get do, like evaluations and competencies, as well as those committee meetings. Sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do. Manager's and educators aren't elite in the "thinking" time. I read journals, attend inservices and continuing education and have thinking time about my profression and job frequently as a staff nurse. But as I said, that's nitpicking.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Of course, getting nitpicky, when I was a charge nurse I would come in an do some things off the clock that I was too busy to get do, like evaluations and competencies, as well as those committee meetings. Sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do. .

Yes. A lot of people do things "off the clock." It's part of being a professiona. For those of us who are salaried, rather than paid hourly, it can get to be a big problem as more and more work gets shoved into the "unpaid overtime." It's easy to have that stuff just grow and grow until it takes over your life. You end up being "visable at the workplace" for 40 hours per week to please the people who are judging you based on how much they actually SEE you work ... and then having a whole load of work to do "after hours."

Thanks for understanding.

llg