I am currently in the OB rotation and I have noticed that many times, women who are giving birth do not want a male nurse in their room. For this reason, the guys get kicked out of the room while the women student nurses are allowed to stay in the room.
If you're a guy who has been in this situation, how do learn without being exposed to what the female nursing students are being exposed to when they're in a room, witnessing a birth or other procedure?
I'm not sure what I said that leads you to believe I have a victim mentality. I stated that it doesn't bother me if people refuse my care. It seems like you need to work on your attention to detail. Also, I can assure you that I do indeed have a purpose during my clinical rotations and I'm not just some random guy standing around. You certainly have a right to disagree with me, but you seem easily offended and have a lot of maturing to do. For your patients' sake, I hope that maturing comes sooner than later.
Of course you don't understand what you said that was offensive, you're too wrapped up in your ego.
The fact that your only response is to insult what you consider to be my maturity level only affirms my initial impression of you.
I'm going to choose to ignore you at this point, because there's clearly no point.
OP: my advice: don't have this attitude when working in women's health. It will do nothing but cause stress to you and your patients.
For the record, I've had several fantastic male nurses with me during uncomfortable medical times, so I encourage you to keep trying. When a your patients see that you respect them and their situations, they'll be more apt to let you in.
I'm not sure what I said that leads you to believe I have a victim mentality. I stated that it doesn't bother me if people refuse my care. It seems like you need to work on your attention to detail. Also, I can assure you that I do indeed have a purpose during my clinical rotations and I'm not just some random guy standing around. You certainly have a right to disagree with me, but you seem easily offended and have a lot of maturing to do. For your patients' sake, I hope that maturing comes sooner than later.
I took exception to this: (well, that and calling Scottishtape immature for disputing you. HIGHLY unprofessional.)
If she's the type of person that's going to stereotype me and somehow think I'm going to provide less of a service, then I don't want to take care of that patient anyways[/Quote]
You are assuming that the pt is harboring some ignorant prejudice. That kind of assumption has NO place in patient centered nursing practice. Please fix that mentality before you are turned out among patients.
Your patient may simply prefer not to show her naked body to a man who is not necessary for her care. (Yes, you are unnecessary). She has that right -- AND she has the right to be free of your judgment.
Don't give up hope. I had nursing students in the room for 2 out of 3 of my deliveries, and while there were no male students, I would have been perfectly fine with them if there were. By the time I was ready to deliver, I wouldn't have cared if a news team was in there with me, I just wanted it over!
Hopefully you'll get a been-there-done-that mom before your rotation is over. The nursing students I had in the room with me (I think there were 5 each time) were fantastic and I had a great time with them.
Not exactly what you asked, but here's my personal perspective fwiw... when I had my miscarriage, I wound up in the ER from excessive bleeding. My regular ob was a woman, but the ER doctor and nurse were both men. They were very kind and knowledgeable, but it's tough being in that position for many reasons... the biggest being that they can't sympathize with you like a woman. Being pregnant makes you feel very vulnerable, and you want/need to be able to ask questions... I'm not a super modest person, but asking those kinds of questions is not easy, especially with a strange man. A female nurse was present for the pelvic exams and I felt this strange attachment to her because of what I was going through, and because I instinctively knew that she didn't just know, she KNEW what it was to be where I was. The moment she lightheartedly mentioned "period panties" (because I was wearing the most awful, ugly pair of underwear you could possibly imagine), I just knew that she understood.
Also... the men explained why miscarriage happens (even though I had already told them that I knew why), and then said "you wouldn't want a child with problems like that"... well, actually, a pregnant woman doesn't care, she DOES want THAT BABY, not the next baby, even if it has 4 legs and no eyeballs. I know that they were trying to be comforting, and they connected well with my husband and they WERE VERY GOOD, provided excellent care, but they were men and couldn't possibility understand. The differences between men and women have never in my life been more CLEAR.
Bottom line... pregnancy makes you crazy. Maybe you can use this story to help you understand a little more :)
You know, women can choose to not have a male in the room not because they are stereotyping regarding care, but because of their modesty.
Instead of carrying around a victim mentality, actually consider the vulnerable nature women are in while they are in that setting and try to respect them, instead of turning their motives into something negative.
ETA: also, just because I don't want some random guy with no real purpose in the room staring at my lady parts while I'm giving birth, doesn't make me, or any other woman "sexist". For the record: the attitude you're showing in this post is what makes it harder for men in nursing. You act like it's your right to look at us in vulnerable situations.
Exactly.
Put yourself in that position... would YOU want strangers looking at your orifice while it's spread open, bleeding, possibility ripped?
When my sil was in labor with her 4th child, someone came in to ask her if the students could watch. They told her how many there were, and that 2 of them were male. They said something to the effect of "I understand that some women do not want male nurses, but they need to get experience somehow" This put it into perspective for her, so she let the entire class come in! See if you can't get someone to approach the women, or possibly ask if YOU could approach the woman about it. It might be easier for her to accept of YOU ask, if you aren't seen as a useless stranger, and if the patient sees the value to your education.
If you're a guy who has been in this situation, how do learn without being exposed to what the female nursing students are being exposed to when they're in a room, witnessing a birth or other procedure?
During my OB rotation several years ago I was told to sit at the nurses station. I wasn't given the opportunity to be in the room during a lady partsl delivery but I did get in on a C section. I really didn't mind as I already had 4 kids and I know what goes on in there. As far as I'm concerned watching anything in OB would be about as useful as watching anything in the OR. It's just watching and it's not going to help on a test. I had/have no desire to work in either area. At least that was my experience.
My advice is to study your text and lecture notes. You'll be fine.
When my sil was in labor with her 4th child, someone came in to ask her if the students could watch. They told her how many there were, and that 2 of them were male. They said something to the effect of "I understand that some women do not want male nurses, but they need to get experience somehow" This put it into perspective for her, so she let the entire class come in! See if you can't get someone to approach the women, or possibly ask if YOU could approach the woman about it. It might be easier for her to accept of YOU ask, if you aren't seen as a useless stranger, and if the patient sees the value to your education.
Blaundee, I agree with most of what you say.
I disagree with your suggestion that the student should approach the patient about watching her delivery. The patient might feel coerced to agree. Many women would feel uncomfortable saying to someone's face that they don't want them present. It would be like if I invited you to my house for dinner. You show up with your friend and say, "Do you mind if John stays for dinner?" What am I going to say at that point? The patient might be afraid that refusing will mean the nursing staff will not provide the same level of care.
Consent must always be knowing and freely given. For that to happen the patient must feel free to say no.
The patient's primary nurse should approach the patient. Explain that students would like to observe and what value it would have. The nurse should make sure the patient understands that she can say no and that saying no will not affect her care in any way. She should also make it clear that if she does say yes, she can withdraw her consent at any time and her decision will be respected.
It is not the patient's responsibility to provide an education to nursing students. The student is paying the school. It is the school's responsibility. If the patient choses to participate, they are giving the student a gift.
OP, unless you're hoping to become an OB nurse or a midwife, you're not missing anything. I don't think my nursing career has been hurt one iota by having the same experience as you.
I'm a male doula, studying to get into nursing grad school so I volunteer at our public hospital in L&D. There will always be a population of women that we can not support and I was prepared for this when I started doing doula work 2 years ago. Mainly, it has to do with religious beliefs but at other times it is because women flat out don't want a male in the room. When that happens, I respect their wishes, don't take it personally, then go find someone else to provide my doula services to.
That being said, I have also had many women prefer to have a male service provider and actually had a really good outcomes when I was their doula. Most of time, it has more to do with a mental shift for the patient and once they get a chance to meet with me and have a talk with you they are fine with it. If it is just a nurse going into their room and saying that we have a male doula, are you okay with that, the normal answer is no. But if I join the nurse and we are introduced to the patient together, normally the patient won't have issues or at least not say them out loud. Once I have that in, then I get a chance to know then and build that relationship and normally by the time they go into labor I am right there with them as they deliver.
Other people have mentioned trauma, and that is something that I have had to work with as well. If that is the case, then I leave it to the people who the patient feels most comfortable with. I also get a lot of refusals with young teen mothers who are having their first child and I also understand that they are young and already feeling self conscious about their changing bodies without also the added issue of pregnancy so if they refuse my help, I also don't take it personally.
My best advice to you is to try and meet the patient first and get a chance to talk with them and introduce yourself so they get comfortable with the idea of your presence. That is the first and easiest way. If the patient wants you there then most of the time the provider will not contradict the patient. But again, keep in mind that doulas at my hospital are given a lot of space to provide this service to the patient population, we even go with them into the OR for a Cesarean if they want support and they don't have anyone to go with them.
That being said, it is about the relationship. If the patient and you form a level of trust, then your gender does not matter when they need the service that you can provide.
Just so we're all clear, men are not victims of discrimination if a woman refuses to consent to you seeing her genitalia in any situation. Period. Their autonomy takes priority every single time and empathy is a necessity when we consider the fact that 1 in 4 women (or 1 in 5, depending on the source) are victims of rape. They have every right to be uncomfortable with your presence. That being said, there are wonderful educational videos online of births, even complicated births (such as shoulder dystocia) that I feel would suffice. You can always request to not be present for the actual birth, but participate in the newborn assessment instead if she consents. Best of luck to the male nursing students that respect female patient's autonomy. The rest should genuinely consider another profession.
Just so we're all clear, men are not victims of discrimination if a woman refuses to consent to you seeing her genitalia in any situation. Period. Their autonomy takes priority every single time and empathy is a necessity when we consider the fact that 1 in 4 women (or 1 in 5, depending on the source) are victims of rape. They have every right to be uncomfortable with your presence. That being said, there are wonderful educational videos online of births, even complicated births (such as shoulder dystocia) that I feel would suffice. You can always request to not be present for the actual birth, but participate in the newborn assessment instead if she consents. Best of luck to the male nursing students that respect female patient's autonomy. The rest should genuinely consider another profession.
Scottishtape
561 Posts
Of course you don't understand what you said that was offensive, you're too wrapped up in your ego.
The fact that your only response is to insult what you consider to be my maturity level only affirms my initial impression of you.
I'm going to choose to ignore you at this point, because there's clearly no point.
OP: my advice: don't have this attitude when working in women's health. It will do nothing but cause stress to you and your patients.
For the record, I've had several fantastic male nurses with me during uncomfortable medical times, so I encourage you to keep trying. When a your patients see that you respect them and their situations, they'll be more apt to let you in.
Good luck.