Male Nurse Interactions

1sttime · Feb 13, 2015

You said that you overcame all of it and took your boyfriend to prom. And people like me didn't tell you not to go to nursing school (Psss I am a male nurse). I got the "Gaylord Focker" jokes the same as the next male nurse. All I am saying here, is stop giving such a big, huge, crap. You aren't going to change people that are set in their ways.

Online discussion forums and universities are some of the places you are supposed to give a huge big crap about various topics- be it plastic model horses, fantasy football, or discrimination.

You are basically trying to shame me into silence by saying I am giving too much of a crap about this; just admit that you have some privilege in life that has spared you from having to overcome wholesale discrimination.

You seem to give too much of a crap about what I am posting, why let it bother you so much? I'll be as into something as I want to be- your dislike of my passion does not invalidate the point.

As to your last line "You aren't going to change people that are set in their ways"- that is utter crap. Every civil rights movement participant has been told that at some time or another.

Rbeck911, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2015

I think you are answering the post before mine, but quoted my post. I'm not the gay man, I'm the old white lady

Haha yah, I was trying to agree with your post. It turned into something else as I was typing and you became the gay man... LOL

Rbeck911, BSN, RN · Feb 13, 2015

Online discussion forums and universities are some of the places you are supposed to give a huge big crap about various topics- be it plastic model horses, fantasy football, or discrimination.
You are basically trying to shame me into silence by saying I am giving too much of a crap about this; just admit that you have some privilege in life that has spared you from having to overcome wholesale discrimination.
You seem to give too much of a crap about what I am posting, why let it bother you so much? I'll be as into something as I want to be- your dislike of my passion does not invalidate the point.
As to your last line "You aren't going to change people that are set in their ways"- that is utter crap. Every civil rights movement participant has been told that at some time or another.

It doesn't bother me that you are so passionate at all. In fact, I commend it. But I personally just don't see, while a patient is in a vulnerable state, having a sexual preference as a problem. It doesn't make me feel bad if they would rather have a female. I say "Okay, no problem. Let me see what I can do". I certainly don't see it as a civil rights issue.

Now, if you want to start talking about fantasy football... THAT conversation I will gladly have!

Call me a bigot, call me whatever. I really don't care. I am just giving you my advice and opinion that rather than being victimized by a harmless situation, rise above it and be a bigger person. It seems, though, that my advice is unwelcome at this point. So, I guess, do whatever you want buddy. I am quite indifferent.

1sttime · Feb 13, 2015

It doesn't bother me that you are so passionate at all. In fact, I commend it. But I personally just don't see, while a patient is in a vulnerable state, having a sexual preference as a problem. It doesn't make me feel bad if they would rather have a female. I say "Okay, no problem. Let me see what I can do". I certainly don't see it as a civil rights issue.
Now, if you want to start talking about fantasy football... THAT conversation I will gladly have!
Call me a bigot, call me whatever. I really don't care. I am just giving you my advice and opinion that rather than being victimized by a harmless situation, rise above it and be a bigger person. It seems, though, that my advice is unwelcome at this point. So, I guess, do whatever you want buddy. I am quite indifferent.

Again- you miss the point that this attitude is perpetuated by other nurses through active discrimination (OB departments), or through indifference (heterosexual male privilege).

It is maddening to be told that my opinion is somehow me crying out as a victim- which is privilege speak for weak. Your advice is most unwelcome as you are trying to tell me that I should "be a bigger person" amongst other condescending statements- get real.

sharkdiver · Feb 14, 2015

1sttime,

There are a couple of separate issues here I think are getting intertwined, and they really need to be addressed separately. This might get a bit long, but I will try to be concise.

The first issue is Title VII, part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlaws discrimination in employment based on several factors, including gender. But what many people do not understand is this law is not absolute - there are exceptions included in the law and which have been backed up by case law, the most significant of which is based on privacy. This means that if the employer can meet certain strict tests called a BFOQ, they may legally hire only a specific gender for that job. OB is one area where the use of a BFOQ in hiring based on gender has been legally upheld when the employer can meet those strict tests.

The second issue is that a patient has the absolute right to refuse any specific caregiver for any reason, including their privacy or modesty. In fact, they don't even have to give a reason other than they are not comfortable being cared for by that person. These rights are established under portions of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th and 14th amendments to the US Constitution, and backed up by case law. When a patient chooses to exercise these rights, a facility has three options: 1) comply with the patient's request; 2) discharge the patient if their condition permits; 3) transfer them to another facility where their request can be complied with. There is no circumstance (excepted very limited situations which require a court order) where a facility can legally force a patient to accept care from a specific individual against their will. If a patient refuses a caregiver and that caregiver ignores the patient's refusal and attempts to carry it out anyway, the caregiver has committed a criminal act in all 50 states.

So here's the bottom line:

While Title VII, with limited exceptions, prohibits discrimination in hiring based on gender and may allow you to get a job in say, OB, it doesn't give you any right to care for any specific patient - who they will allow care from is strictly up to the patient.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant - it is the law. I think what a lot of the folks here have been trying to say is that you can choose either let it get to you, or to accept it and move on.

In the OP"s situation, regardless of why, the patient's refusal of a male nursing student must be complied with. That said, if the staff person was making derogatory comments with regard to male students, regardless if it had an effect on a patient's decision, that is wrong and should be addressed with the facility through the instructor.

Rbeck911, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2015

1sttime,
There are a couple of separate issues here I think are getting intertwined, and they really need to be addressed separately. This might get a bit long, but I will try to be concise.
The first issue is Title VII, part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlaws discrimination in employment based on several factors, including gender. But what many people do not understand is this law is not absolute - there are exceptions included in the law and which have been backed up by case law, the most significant of which is based on privacy. This means that if the employer can meet certain strict tests called a BFOQ, they may legally hire only a specific gender for that job. OB is one area where the use of a BFOQ in hiring based on gender has been legally upheld when the employer can meet those strict tests.
The second issue is that a patient has the absolute right to refuse any specific caregiver for any reason, including their privacy or modesty. In fact, they don't even have to give a reason other than they are not comfortable being cared for by that person. These rights are established under portions of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th and 14th amendments to the US Constitution, and backed up by case law. When a patient chooses to exercise these rights, a facility has three options: 1) comply with the patient's request; 2) discharge the patient if their condition permits; 3) transfer them to another facility where their request can be complied with. There is no circumstance (excepted very limited situations which require a court order) where a facility can legally force a patient to accept care from a specific individual against their will. If a patient refuses a caregiver and that caregiver ignores the patient's refusal and attempts to carry it out anyway, the caregiver has committed a criminal act in all 50 states.
So here's the bottom line:
While Title VII, with limited exceptions, prohibits discrimination in hiring based on gender and may allow you to get a job in say, OB, it doesn't give you any right to care for any specific patient - who they will allow care from is strictly up to the patient.
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant - it is the law. I think what a lot of the folks here have been trying to say is that you can choose either let it get to you, or to accept it and move on.
In the OP"s situation, regardless of why, the patient's refusal of a male nursing student must be complied with. That said, if the staff person was making derogatory comments with regard to male students, regardless if it had an effect on a patient's decision, that is wrong and should be addressed with the facility through the instructor.

I am sensing either A. Legal nurse or B. Administrator. Either way, very informative.

Rbeck911, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2015

Again- you miss the point that this attitude is perpetuated by other nurses through active discrimination (OB departments), or through indifference (heterosexual male privilege).
It is maddening to be told that my opinion is somehow me crying out as a victim- which is privilege speak for weak. Your advice is most unwelcome as you are trying to tell me that I should "be a bigger person" amongst other condescending statements- get real.

Rbeck911, BSN, RN · Feb 16, 2015

In Internet slang, a troll (/Ëˆ t r oÊŠ l /, /Ëˆ t r É’l /) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,^[1] by posting inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4]
^{What do you call stating I do not have the interpersonal skills to practice nursing? You also inflated the definition of bigot to something very inflammatory....}
^{Sorry- I didn't realize you were so versed in the internets: I find people who post a lot troll for "likes", one way they do that is by playing the victim card... You have:}Posts: 1,564 Likes: 3,791

Oh the victim card.... You have been arguing with people quite belligerently since the beginning of this thread. Including name calling. Everything you just accused me of, you have yourself done just pages before. Friendly debate is one thing, but this is something different that I will now wash my hands of no matter how much you provoke the situation. Good luck in all that you do, and I mean that. I hope that you never have to deal with discrimination again.