Made a fool of myself to board of nursing rep

Nurses General Nursing

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So, a representative from the California Board of Registered Nursing visited our school and asked us for feedback on our program. We had been encouraged to be on especially good behavior during the visit, but I couldn't keep my big mouth shut when the rep said that we should all be looking to the future to get our DNP degrees. I told her that I felt our BSN program seemed designed to push us towards grad school, but that I personally had no plans to become a nurse practitioner or to get an advanced nursing degree. I told her that I felt our program put too much emphasis on pathophysiology and clinical decision-making from the point of view of a physician or nurse practitioner and that we hardly spend any time in lecture discussing nursing procedures, nursing care, or the role of the nurse.

The Board of Nursing representative looked at me as if I was crazy, like I had just complained that the sky was blue. She said it was all about pathophysiology and clinical decision-making "to anticipate the doctor's orders." Am I being ridiculous to expect that lectures will cover nursing care? Is actual nursing care so simple that it does not need to be taught in lecture? Or is it just understood that any nursing care will be learned in clinicals and on the job?

I'm 75% of the way through my BSN program and I still can't wrap my head around how material is presented. It is always from the point of view of a physician; taking a history, doing a physical exam, deciding which diagnostics and lab tests to order, reviewing lab results, making a medical diagnosis, deciding which medications to administer, deciding whether the patient will need surgery and so on.

There are never any phrases in our case studies or lectures such as, "Given these findings, what diagnostics would you expect the DOCTOR to order next?" Or, "Dr. Jones has prescribed amlodipine. Do you think amlodipine is the right medication for this patient?" It may have been stated by an instructor early in the program, but I cannot recall any instructor saying, "Now I know that you are nurses and that in real life you cannot prescribe medications except under certain protocols, but in this class we are going to present all material as if you were physicians so that you can understand how a physician thinks and therefore you will be able to realize if a physician has made a mistake in planning treatment for a patient."

Instead, material is simply presented as if we ARE the doctors. It's very strange. It's like preparing to work at a hospital where there are no physicians, only nurses making all decisions. I get the idea of learning some pathophysiology and clinical decision-making to understand what's going on with the patient and how the medications work, but it just seems weird that I am expected to make medical diagnoses and prescribe medications without going through the more extensive pathophysiology and pharmacology training that physicians are given. I feel like I'm already being pushed to become a nurse practitioner before I've even finished RN school.

Is this normal for a BSN program? How can I adjust my thinking so that I don't feel frustrated? Thank you very much for any advice.:)

My schooling used the concepts of nursing assessment, nursing diagnosis, then plan to intervene and evaluate the response to the intervention. I liked the way this made me think about the patients in holistic terms regarding what was going on with them medically/surgically/psychologically, their mind/body/emotional/spiritual response to all of that and how we as nurses could optimize that. I have greatly appreciated this difference in nursing compared to doctoring. The North American Nursing Diagnosis Association (NANDA) created the first list of nursing diagnosis in 1973. I encourage you to look at the NANDA website and perhaps you could encourage your school to teach from this motif. I did not become a nurse to be a doctor. I like how I see the big picture. Not all of my interventions involve the doctor and these interventions can make huge differences to the patient. Yes, we must have deep understandings of pathology and physiology so that when we assess the patient we can understand how that particular patient is experiencing that now. For example, I take care of same day surgery patients both pre and postoperatively. If I have some one who can't maintain their oxygenation saturations, what to do and why. If this patient is minimally responsive, maybe I need to bag that patient and have another nurse call for anesthetic or opiate reversal. Maybe I just need to rouse the patient and have them work out on the incentive spirometer awhile. Maybe this patient is very wheezy and needs a nebulized bronchodilator treatment. My this patient is fearful and painful and are splinting and breath holding. Maybe this patient needs more pain medicine to breathe adequately and coaching and education to help decrease the fear. Maybe my patient was fluid overloaded in the O.R. and the chart review corroborates that e crackles I am hearing in the lungs are because this patient has fluid volume excess and needs lasix. My assessments and nursing diagnoses prepare me to intervene and evaluate my interventions by critically thinking about the whole patient and their circumstances.

I appreciate your perspective, Orion81RN. You could have left off the snarky postscript, though. As if i would really give up on years of education towards the RN and in the last few months of school drop down to a medical assistant and accept $12 an hour wage. Certainly, I will finish up my program and if I find I don't like hospital nursing, I will go into public health or school nursing or some other position. I am aware of the much more limited scope of practice and the relatively low pay for medical assistants, so your postscript comments are not helpful.

I appreciate all the responses, everyone. I'm still reading and digesting it all. Thank you!

I appreciate your perspective, Orion81RN. You could have left off the snarky postscript, though. As if i would really give up on years of education towards the RN and in the last few months of school drop down to a medical assistant and accept $12 an hour wage. Certainly, I will finish up my program and if I find I don't like hospital nursing, I will go into public health or school nursing or some other position. I am aware of the much more limited scope of practice and the relatively low pay for medical assistants, so your postscript comments are not helpful.

There was no snark intended in that MA comment. I truly meant it. I stated IF you don't find the emphasis on critical thinking and more advanced patho your desire, then you could consider an alternative. If you do truly want to be a nurse, great.

It sounds to me that no matter what people say to you, you will hold your opinion that you shouldn't be taught as much critical thinking. And I think its a shame that you seem to be getting an excellent education and you don't seem to appreciate it. But believe me, you WILL when you start working.

I completely agree with you that your instructors seem to be teaching from an NP model. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. Maybe because I too was taught by NPs and DNPs. I did just fine upon graduating with knowing my role as an RN with no advanced degree. So Im simply not understanding the complaint.

WOW. I just read the OP and his/her subsequent posts. No wonder you are confused and disappointed. I would be too. No, this is not normal, or desirable, but it seems to be what some BSN programs are turning in to. There is a great push in BSN programs to get students to continue on to become NP/Advanced Practice Nurses. This has been discussed on this forum. You are right to expect to be taught what NURSES who are not advanced practice nurses do. The public needs regular nurses.

Good for you for telling the BON representative what you think about your program. Hopefully there will be others like you.

If I was in your position I would hope that I, together with other like minded students, would bring these concerns in a formal complaint to the highest administrator of the University. I would demand my tuition money back. Nursing schools receive a lot of state and federal funding and are expensive programs for Universities/Colleges to run. Pre-licensure nursing students deserve to receive the non advanced practice nursing education they have signed up for and are paying for, and the public deserves to receive the non advanced practice nurses whose education they are paying for.

Specializes in Neuroscience.
WOW. I just read the OP and his/her subsequent posts. No wonder you are confused and disappointed. I would be too. No, this is not normal, or desirable, but it seems to be what some BSN programs are turning in to. There is a great push in BSN programs to get students to continue on to become NP/Advanced Practice Nurses. This has been discussed on this forum. You are right to expect to be taught what NURSES who are not advanced practice nurses do. The public needs regular nurses.

Good for you for telling the BON representative what you think about your program. Hopefully there will be others like you.

If I was in your position I would hope that I, together with other like minded students, would bring these concerns in a formal complaint to the highest administrator of the University. I would demand my tuition money back. Nursing schools receive a lot of state and federal funding and are expensive programs for Universities/Colleges to run. Pre-licensure nursing students deserve to receive the non advanced practice nursing education they have signed up for and are paying for, and the public deserves to receive the non advanced practice nurses whose education they are paying for.

Have you not read any of the comments from actual nurses? It appears that you aren't one, have an idealized description of the job, and are not willing to accept the truth from those of us working as a nurse. Perhaps nursing is not the field for you.

Have you not read any of the comments from actual nurses? It appears that you aren't one, have an idealized description of the job, and are not willing to accept the truth from those of us working as a nurse. Perhaps nursing is not the field for you.

Yeah, that poster would be laughed out of admin's office. And tuition reimbursement? For real? Smh

Have you not read any of the comments from actual nurses? It appears that you aren't one, have an idealized description of the job, and are not willing to accept the truth from those of us working as a nurse. Perhaps nursing is not the field for you.

Hello. You've been a nurse for 2.5 years. Welcome to nursing. I've been a nurse for over 20 years, ADN, BSN, ACLS, Certifications, Sigma Theta Tau; I don't bother with using credentials here because it's not very important to me. Tell me the truth about nursing.

Yeah, that poster would be laughed out of admin's office. And tuition reimbursement? For real? Smh

I'm laughing at your posts.

I'm laughing at your posts.

Happy to amuse. Laugh away.

I'm laughing at your posts.

And a quick glance at your posts revealed to me you are indeed an experienced nurse. But admin and DONs of schools will always take the instructors' side. I don't know what world you live in where you think a whole class of students would get tuition reimbursement.

And a quick glance at your posts revealed to me you are indeed an experienced nurse. But admin and DONs of schools will always take the instructors' side. I don't know what world you live in where you think a whole class of students would get tuition reimbursement.

What do you think would happen if an entire class demanded their money back?

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