LVN/LPN unions?

LPNer · Apr 1, 2005

I've done a search, but haven't found any posts on LVN/LPN unions. Where I work there is talk about forming a union for LVNs, but this union will also include technicians and other non-Registered Nurse health care workers; pharmacy techs, radiology techs, etc. I'd like to know if there are any LVNs/LPNs out there who have formed a union and how you feel about having such a union. I would also like to hear from any nurses who have any experience with SEIU and your opinions about it. Any input would be much appreciated.

Ancilliary personel! Run, stay away from them. They can not help the LPN in our particular crisis!

baby&mommynurse · Apr 1, 2005

Ancilliary personel! Run, stay away from them. They can not help the LPN in our particular crisis!

Exactly what do you mean by this? Have you had any experience with SEIU? Quite a few LVNs I work with are Pro-Union, while I stand indifferent about the whole thing. I'm just trying to get other people's opinions before I decide. I have to add that I live/work in California and our RNs are part of the CNA, so you can see how this may affect all other health care workers in our facility that are non-union. Even our secretaries, housekeepers and nurse assistants are part of a union.

LPNer · Apr 1, 2005

Exactly what do you mean by this? Have you had any experience with SEIU? Quite a few LVNs I work with are Pro-Union, while I stand indifferent about the whole thing. I'm just trying to get other people's opinions before I decide. I have to add that I live/work in California and our RNs are part of the CNA, so you can see how this may affect all other health care workers in our facility that are non-union. Even our secretaries, housekeepers and nurse assistants are part of a union.

I worked at a University Hosp where the RNs had their own union and the LPNs were in the union with most of the other staff, all of which were non-licensed personel!

The needs of those personel who are not professionals, who are not licensed, are very different from licensed nurses, resp tx, physical tx, etc. It was a nightmare for LPNs when the hospital decided to phase out LPns in favor of an all RN staff. Nobody cared! The union did not understand the light of LPNs as they never dealt with licensed professionals before. The LPNs lost and were phased out.

This is one of our biggest problems, it's not that we are not capable of working in acute care, (few nurses are right out of school, that's why RNs enjoy preceptor programs of up to 6 months duration!) we have no representation! We need to join together as a separate entity if the RNs in the facility do not want you to join their union. We do not need to lump ourselves into a group of non-licensed personel who can not understand our needs as far as compensation packages, job security, advancement ops, etc.

Like I said have before, an LPN can never be an RN without additional formal education, but there is no reason why we can not build our own professional organization and ensure our advancement through certifications, etc. We need to be treated as entry level professionals, not ancillary personel!

baby&mommynurse · Apr 1, 2005

I worked at a University Hosp where the RNs had their own union and the LPNs were in the union with most of the other staff, all of which were non-licensed personel!
The needs of those personel who are not professionals, who are not licensed, are very different from licensed nurses, resp tx, physical tx, etc.

I certainly agree about not joining forces with non-licensed personnel. As I have said, the secretaries, housekeepers, nurse assistants; all other non-licensed personnel have formed their own union(s). The union that is being created involves LVNs and other licensed health care workers that are not RNs. This union will ultimately also be extended to the other 5 hospitals affiliated with the one I work at and will include all of their LVNs, pharmacy techs, respiratory techs, etc., in order to create a larger union.

A few questions for you are: Are you currently union and how do you feel about the union that is being created for us? I still stand indifferent about becoming unionized. There's no doubt that a vote will take place. I'm just trying to gather all the information I can, so that I can vote appropriately. By the way, LPNer, thank you for your input. And anyone else out there who has an opinion, please feel free to post them.

LPNer · Apr 1, 2005

I certainly agree about not joining forces with non-licensed personnel. As I have said, the secretaries, housekeepers, nurse assistants; all other non-licensed personnel have formed their own union(s). The union that is being created involves LVNs and other licensed health care workers that are not RNs. This union will ultimately also be extended to the other 5 hospitals affiliated with the one I work at and will include all of their LVNs, pharmacy techs, respiratory techs, etc., in order to create a larger union.
A few questions for you are: Are you currently union and how do you feel about the union that is being created for us? I still stand indifferent about becoming unionized. There's no doubt that a vote will take place. I'm just trying to gather all the information I can, so that I can vote appropriately. By the way, LPNer, thank you for your input. And anyone else out there who has an opinion, please feel free to post them.

The hospital I am at now is not union.

I am sure a union with other licensed personel would be better than grouped with non-licensed staff. But... I still worry that your particular needs as a staff nurse will not be met.

When the hospital I did work at that was union decided to do away with LPNs they could not understand why we should object because a job that paid the same, offered the same benefits, etc was available. They had no concept how much nursing means to a nurse. Pharmacy techs count pills for a living. The emotional bonds to what we do are not there. PT could and very likely does feel the same way aobut their carreers as we do about ours, but there is not another level of PT who hsa been chomping at the bit for decades to do away with them so their needs can never be the same as the LPNs.

You know, at one time, over 20 years ago, I came to within 1 quarter of having my ADN. My husband died and I was left with kids to raise alone etc etc etc so never did finish. Have to start all over again now and it isn't worth it. I have done so much in so many positions as an LPN that now I strive to help LPNs become the nurses that we are instead of the glorified CNAs many BONs are trying to make us. This is all a different story but I am getting to a point about the union....

Ask the union in a well drafted letter just how they intend to approach the subject should it arise in your hospital. Are they going to help bring LPNs, even non union members, in your state to approach the BON about these issues?

I would want to know that they will be there for me should this happen. What are thier plans? How would they handle such a situation?

Fiona59 · Apr 2, 2005

Ask the proposed union if LPN's can be a separate bargaining unit. This would allow you the protection of the larger union, but as a separate bargaining unit you negotiate separate contracts pertaining to your group.

I've belonged to large unions (which have included government workers and prison guards, etc.) LPNs always had a separate bargaining unit.

It wasn't perfect but it was better than some of the options that had been on offer. I've heard disaster stories about LPN's joining the same union as RN's. Separate profession, separate bargaining units at least..

baby&mommynurse · Apr 2, 2005

You know, at one time, over 20 years ago, I came to within 1 quarter of having my ADN. My husband died and I was left with kids to raise alone etc etc etc so never did finish. Have to start all over again now and it isn't worth it. I have done so much in so many positions as an LPN that now I strive to help LPNs become the nurses that we are instead of the glorified CNAs many BONs are trying to make us. This is all a different story but I am getting to a point about the union....
Ask the union in a well drafted letter just how they intend to approach the subject should it arise in your hospital. Are they going to help bring LPNs, even non union members, in your state to approach the BON about these issues?
I would want to know that they will be there for me should this happen. What are thier plans? How would they handle such a situation?

LPNer, I'm sorry about your past situation, and I really appreciate that you want to help other LPNs/LVNs... thanks for your advice. I will definitely seek out the answers to these questions.

Ask the proposed union if LPN's can be a separate bargaining unit. This would allow you the protection of the larger union, but as a separate bargaining unit you negotiate separate contracts pertaining to your group.

Fiona59, thank you for your input, as well.

In my opinion, a lot of the people I've talked with are just "pro-union" because of what has happened in my hospital in the past 2 years. Our RNs voted in a union, the secretaries, house keepers and nurse assistants also joined a union.... and aside from management, we LVNs and techs are the only ones who aren't unionized. 2 years ago, we voted to become union, but it did not pass. We've seen a lot of good things result from everyone else being in unions and we're even benefiting from some of it. However, I'm not as "pro-union". Maybe it's because I've never belonged to a union and I don't know what I'm missing or not missing. Perhaps it's because my long term goal is to get my RN and an LVN union won't even matter to me then. Whatever it is, I don't know yet how I'd vote when the time comes and I probably won't know until that time. As far as having a separate bargaining unit, that is in the plans. That I like. Knowing that each group of workers will be able to negotiate their own needs sounds good.

Jenny99 · Apr 4, 2005

LVN's/LPN's are unable to have separate bargaining units under the federal guidelines - this was determined by the supreme court back in the 1970's.

jenny99

LPNer · Apr 4, 2005

LVN's/LPN's are unable to have separate bargaining units under the federal guidelines - this was determined by the supreme court back in the 1970's.
jenny99

There has to be more to that guidline than stated here. Would you mind sharing your source with us?

live4today, RN · Apr 4, 2005

i am of the mindset that nurses should stick together be they licensed registered nurses or licensed practical/vocational nurses. when the day comes that nurses in these two categories start working against one another that will be a very sad day indeed.

as a licensed registered nurse who has worked with many fine lpns/lvns over a span of 18 years, i find it insulting to not honor all the fine work and the vast skill levels lpns/lvns bring to the field of healthcare. one of my daughters is an lvn in texas, and she is one sharp nurse.......not because she is my daughter, but because i know a good nurse when i hear one, work with one, see one in action. many lvns/lpns i know put a lot of rns to shame.

nurses pleeeeeezzzz -- stick together. do not continue doing the one thing women are mostly known for in a work environment.........cat fights, back stabbing, trying to always one up one another, ratting on each other, putting each other down for not being this or that.

if it looks like a nurse, acts like a nurse, talks like a nurse, thinks like a nurse, cares for patients like a nurse, works like a nurse, charts their butt off like a nurse.............................it's a nurse..........be it lpn/lvn, or rn!!!! :nurse:

cheers to allllllllllllll nurses everywhere!!! :cheers:

Jenny99 · Apr 4, 2005

There has to be more to that guidline than stated here. Would you mind sharing your source with us?

Sure. The supreme court in the 1970's made a ruling the LVN/LPN's were "technicial" in nature - so to speak. Therefore, they had to be included with all the other technical folks into a bargaining unit. This is evident today by the composition of bargaining units inclusive of Pharmacy Techs, CNA's, EKG Techs and the like. That is the way the law is.

jenny99