Wondering something here. Hoping it doesn't turn into a rant, but I'm pretty perturbed just now. I've personally had NO issues during school, as a student working with RNs or LPNs, about who was "better" or had it "harder" in either school or work. We all just did our thing, for the most part, and I didn't really see too much animosity. Occasionally maybe, but I didn't see it as a problem widespread.
And then I had a conversation today with someone who made me so angry I had to wonder if it was just her, or just her school, or....what? Maybe there IS more animosity than I knew of??
While we were watching our kids play, she asked me what I 'did'; I told her I recently graduated NS, recently got my RN license, and was now needing to make some decisions about job offers :) . She told me that she had gotten halfway through LPN school (a local vocational school that teaches LPN courses amongst many other types of vocations), had to drop out for family reasons, and how much harder it was to do that than "your RN school". Huh? I asked her how she figured that program was "harder" (I KNOW that program, btw, so this was very curious to me). She said the RN students could "do what they wanted, wear what they wanted" and so on. I told her that if the DRESS CODE was a measure of how "hard" a school was, wasn't that a bit silly.....and anyway, NO, we had specific uniforms that were enforced, as well as clinical criteria that was certainly enforced. She said that their instructors commented on how much more "professional" the LPN students were. I smiled, thinking it ridiculous to say; I'm quite aware of what standards WE were held to, thank you very much.
She told me that there were students who "couldn't make it" in her school but then went into the RN program at the college and did great (a double 'HUH?' here). Never heard of that; actually, have seen it the other way around, but who's counting. We had quite a few LPNs IN our program, but certainly no one that had not been able to achieve an LPN license first. I asked her if it really made sense to her that it was "harder" to get an LPN license than an RN one; did she REALLY think that RNs were getting their licenses so much easier, when it's a higher level in the nursing hierarchy? Was that logical? She didn't answer exactly, but continued....
She told me that LPNs were more "hands on" nursing and RNs were more "paperwork". Another "HUH?" since we had to learn to do at LEAST as much 'hands on' work, even a few MORE things in our program than they did in theirs, PLUS the paperwork.
I really began to resent the outright statements that LPNs were "better", even more professional nurses; as a subtle suggestion it would be laughable, but as an outright statement it was ludicrous. The thing is, *I* had not and would not suggest that RNs are "better" or "more professional"!
Which leads me to wonder if RNs overall are more secure in what they are and do to NOT degrade LPNs, or am I just not seeing it? Is this woman a fluke, or (since she said her whole class and instructors felt this way) there's a jealousy or resentment issue for those of us who are RNs not LPNs??
What gives? Here I am thinking "treat everyone with the respect they earn" and I'm faced with someone who automatically places herself (and other LPNs-to-be) in a position of pseudo-superiority??
Specializes in tele- 7 yrs, Pyxis- 3 yrs, med/surg 4.
Hey RNsRWe,
I agree with other posters that it is an insecurity thing. Seems as though that person talked about her program with a bit of bravado, yet she could not finish. She was probably compensating for failure. I have been a nurse for 14 years. I was an Lpn. I just finished an RN progam--just took boards--so I have been sucsessful in both. Yes, the lpn program does have a greater ratio of hands on in clinicals, and you go all day, and it was hard, but anyone who thinks that an lpn program is superior has no idea of what they are talking about. I do. I was in a bridge program with 12 other student LPNs. Only 4 of us graduated. I have worked with a few jealous LPNs who resented RNs, and a few condescending RNs who looked down on LPNs. I honestly think of myself as a nurse, sans title. To me, title matters much less than the kind of person you are. Respect is earned. Don't give much regard to those who talk, but can't do.
I, too got my ADN from a tech school, and had to take LPN AND RN Boards. Several LPN's chose, for whatever reason, not to return and get their ADN; I think they had plans of working in a LTC facility, and that was OK for them. I, actually, had had enough of school, after my LPN Boards and thought of the same thing. HOWEVER, my KIDS, who were adults by that time, REFUSED TO ALLOW IT. My daughter said, "Look, Mom, you basically aced your LPN classes (I graduated with honors), you gotta at least give your RN a try. You would never allow us kids to quit!" Andd she was so right. I finished with my RN and AGAIN graduated with honors. I have no problem with anyone settling for LPN, but for anyone who, for one reason or another, doesn't even finish school to say that "LPN's are better, work harder, blah, blah, blah," is absolutely LUDICROUS! I wonder what she's doing for a living now?.......
Definitely lifted my spirits to read these responses! To motorcycle mama, you have an excellent point: how can this woman believe that her program was "tougher" than the RN program--she never got in that, so....? Rumors are just that. If I had to hang my hat on the validity of most rumors and gossip, my hat would be on the floor most of the time
casi: you made me remember something, unrelated to this particular ex-student, but instead a fellow RN student who had failed the previous year's skill evaluations and re-entered our class (same semester, had to pass the evals same as us). Well, according to her, when SHE failed those evals, it was because it was 6 skills, not 2 (BS, I was THERE), it was only 20 minutes allowed, not 45 (BS again), and how much tougher it was then. Oh, and the instructor had it in for her (an instructor everyone loved). Apparently the need to make her failure not her fault. She got through that set of evals, btw, but failed the next set, losing her place in the class again. Wonder what she'll tell next year's class about why she didn't get through? (assuming she could get in again, which I doubt)
As for what the LPN dropout is doing now, she's a SAHM. No knocks there, I've been-there-done-that. But I forgot to mention that when I told her she might want to think about going for an RN if she wanted to go back to school (more employable in this area) she told me she really wanted to do surgery. I said "RNs work in the OR, not LPNs...?" She said "oh, no, I mean I really want to DO surgery--plastics maybe" and I stared at her and said "you mean MEDICAL SCHOOL? You WOULD have to be an MD for that...?" LOL....she said yes, but she doesn't "have time" to do that now....rofl....
Oh, and I also remember an LPN on a unit I did clinicals in telling me that my school "didn't like" LPNs; that's why she failed. Please.
RN34TX: lol! Yeah, I once had someone tell me that she got "halfway" through the RN program; upon questioning, however, turns out she got "halfway" through one semester's pre-reqs! Not even "halfway" through all the pre-reqs; she failed A&P and I think chem.
Yet she tells people she was "in the nursing program" and "didn't get through clinicals". Ummm....couldn't get TO clinicals, but why be picky.
LOL! Love that!
I watched Judge Judy yesterday (I know, trashy show...) and one of the litigants told her that he was a law student. After asking him if he was enrolled in a law school, he said no and then clarified that he's actually a pre-law student not "quite yet" graduated with his bachelors.
She asked how close he was to graduating and what school he was going to. So he then finally admitted that he was still in comunity college and has completed a grand total or 4 freshman level credits.
Specializes in med/surg/tele/neuro/rehab/corrections.
She sounds like she has a low self esteem. She was one of those weeded out by the process. By her reasoning, talking with you, one can see she has no critical thinking skills. Nursing school is tough and she couldn't make it. Don't give her another thought. Remember, more communication is not always better. When she starts up again just smile and nod.
The only probelm I ever had with an LPN was the fact that the RN's before me treated her poorly....she was bold, in my face, and was unreasonable at some points.
But ya know what? I felt this was no different from anyone else I had worked with ...or even pts! I listened to her...bit my lip a lot, and treated her like any other professional.
After a while, and it did seem like a long while..LOL, she and I became quite close and working like an awesome team together! She wasn't quite the bully I thought...well okay kinda! LOL, but she just needed to prove herself to her satisfaction before she could trust another RN that may just leave in a month or two like the others.
I still talk to her even though I don't work there...and the underlying thing that both she and I admitted...I treated her like a professional that knew her stuff (she was 30 years my senior and a heck of a lot more experienced!). And it showed!
I think that is the trick with many people..no matter the title! LISTEN....you will find out so much about someone by just taking time to listen! :)
I agree 100%, in otherwords consider the source. IMHO, the ADN programs have better opportunities for hands on clinical experience vs. BSN, or LVN/LPN programs. However, I've been up the educational ladder of AAS in CST, AAS in Nursing [ADN], and BSN. However, bottom line is what one does with their experience after the program of choice. I've worked with some awesome LVNs [especially in the AMEDD], as well as ADN & BSN educated nurses.
I watched Judge Judy yesterday (I know, trashy show...) and one of the litigants told her that he was a law student. After asking him if he was enrolled in a law school, he said no and then clarified that he's actually a pre-law student not "quite yet" graduated with his bachelors.
She asked how close he was to graduating and what school he was going to. So he then finally admitted that he was still in comunity college and has completed a grand total or 4 freshman level credits.
Some law student.
HA!! Some people. I posted a message some time back, on the Graduate Nurse Student Forum (the one for NS graduates, not masters' students) about another Judge Judy episode. One in which the snotty, irresponsible and law-breaking defendant informed the plaintiff that she was completely in control now, since she was now going to nursing school and would be a registered nurse, etc etc. After questioning, turns out she "planned" to go to school....not even enrolled yet, lol!
I've been an LPN since '97 in 4 different states. The only issue I have with RN's isnt professional its political. I've been seeing (as have most of us I imagine) a lot of the shifting tides between RN and LPN regarding scope of practice. It doesnt seem fair to me that RNs *seem* to be pushing LPNs out of the more technical and well paying specialities and towards Geriatric/ SNF and Home Health. Now both of the above are great fields, very rewarding if that is the type of nursing you want to do. They are also stressful, physically demanding and un appreciated in a large part and far from "high profile" in scope.
LPNs are often trained to be more hands on, which to my way of thinking is an excellent combination with the more theoretical aspects RNs deal with. I think its a pity that the politicos seem to want to make what should be a rounded clinical partnership into some sort of competitive glory snatching on the order of kids playing in a sand box.
"OK, I want the shiney thing, and the pretty thing, and the expensive thing, but here, you can have the dirty ones, the smelly ones and the ones I dont want."
I may be slightly bitter here as I was legislated out of a job I loved,that paid great, and had wonderful patients due to a change in CA law regarding the role of LVNs working with cosmetic lasers. To add insult to injury, after being told I was incompetant to perform the duties I'd been doing for 6 months, I ended up training the 2 RNs they hired to replace me. They were great, as are 99% of RNs I know. I just have issues with what my nursing instructor refered to as "high heeled nurses"
phil1968, ADN, BSN, LPN
35 Posts
Hey RNsRWe,
I agree with other posters that it is an insecurity thing. Seems as though that person talked about her program with a bit of bravado, yet she could not finish. She was probably compensating for failure. I have been a nurse for 14 years. I was an Lpn. I just finished an RN progam--just took boards--so I have been sucsessful in both. Yes, the lpn program does have a greater ratio of hands on in clinicals, and you go all day, and it was hard, but anyone who thinks that an lpn program is superior has no idea of what they are talking about. I do. I was in a bridge program with 12 other student LPNs. Only 4 of us graduated. I have worked with a few jealous LPNs who resented RNs, and a few condescending RNs who looked down on LPNs. I honestly think of myself as a nurse, sans title. To me, title matters much less than the kind of person you are. Respect is earned. Don't give much regard to those who talk, but can't do.
Phillip