In class today, our instructor informed us that we would be required to give one another bed baths as part of the course. The majority of the class are females, and we also have a few men. We were told the men would work with the men, the women with the women.
Basically, we'd be required to bring a bathing suit to class, change and be (I hate to use the term this way) forced to recieve a bed bath. For many of us, this doesn't exactly sit well. I understand the experience is to give us a sense of empathy and compassion for patients, but for me personally, this is going a bit over the line and even though this is coming around in a few weeks, I'm already feeling extremely violated
We were also informed that if we refused, we would be kicked out of the program. Also, many of us don't even own bathing suits - as we were discussing it on break, about 70% of us don't even own one; we brought this up to our instructor and were told that if we didn't own one, we'd have to do it in our bras and underwear. Personally, this is really overwhelming for me.
Now, mind you, I do not have anything against giving a bath or bed bath to an individual - I worked in a NYS ARC for a period of time and that was part of my job as a direct support professional.
My issues with this are extremely personal - its not about stretch marks from pregnancy or weight gain like many of the other women had mentioned; I have some severe scarring from being a victim of abuse years ago. Its not something I wish to flaunt or have to explain to people. Even going to the doctor's office, I have a very difficult time undressing and more often than not, I keep my clothing on.
I read a previous post from 2008 on the subject - how many LPN students had to go through the same procedures, but there were also alternatives - dry baths, with students fully clothed, etc (I could deal with that).
I don't want to lose this oppertunity because of this (once again, refusal = dismissal from the program).
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Take heart - the tide is turning on this issue - from one who has also been there as I went to nursing school 35 years ago. Giving a bed bath is not difficult at all. Your future patients will be of all ages, weights, genders, cultural backgrounds and functional limitations. One bed bath on one classmate is not going to make any difference unless, as we have seen, the true reason for doing it isn't skills at all, but more like a hazing ritual if you read what people are writing about YOU having to get over YOUR issues via the exercise of stripping you of your personal modesty boundaries as a rite of passage.
I've never had a bone marrow aspiration. But you can be sure I have lots of empathy because I can use my imagination to grasp what it might be like, and I can listen to what people tell me, I can watch the cues they are giving, and I can modify the way I approach a procedure based on that - hopefully improving on it as I go. It is ridiculous to say that you can't have empathy without having a procedure done on yourself by a classmate. There is an ill-defined hidden agenda there that is often sprung as a surprise on students and it causes them needless anxiety and even heartache within a group of people wholly unqualified to "fix" that through the bed bath ritual.
have u ever heard of PTSD b/c if u have then u would know that the OP could have a flasback to the abuse se endured. To say what u did, is not only highly insensitive but would make me wonder about ur empathy/caring skills as a nurse.
I agree with another poster that suggested you speak with your teacher. I would suggest to her/him a logical middle ground like maybe your partner could be someone like a close friend in class, who will give you a bath and you her for observation outside of the regular class eye. If you explain your reasons and she is still not willing to compromise go to DON of higher depending how your institution is organized and let them know at this point you will be seeking legal advice and I would advice you to do so anyways.
I understand that programs do things like this to help you learn but we also learn compassion and consideration for our patients feelings concerning procedures as well so we should consider that with each other. If they do compromise dont make a big deal of it with classmates who will most likely be envious or upset they cant opt out or have special considerations as well, which is why they are probably so strict on the policy. You open the door a crack and everyone wants to push it opened.
If you are just told no and decide to go through with it I hope it all works out. I know it may be hard because even non-related things can bring back abuse in your mind and heart but try to remember this is to help you grow in your life. I have had to do this at different junctions in my life that really brought back ghosts or pains.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
livelaughlove09, no they don't hire CNA's either, and there were about three nurses just sitting at the nurses station that particular day, complaining at how slow the unit was for the past week! The nurse/pt ratio was 1 nurse, 5 patients. As an LPN, we had a ratio of 1 to 10, and were expected to give everyone a bath as well as pass our meds, do our treatments, have our documentation done q 2hrs, and pass the meal trays, and whatever else the RN thought up for us to do. But LPN's were disposable at this hospital. If there are any CNA's left, they have either gone to nursing school and got their RN, or have been moved to other departments and retrained to do ward clerk, and are also expected to "pick up the slack" as in doing some pt care as well as WC duties. Or, have simply left the facility all together as most of the LPN's did. As far as the LPN's we did have choice if we stayed we had to go for our RN, and pay for it ourselves, at that time I couldn't afford it. Or take a lesser paying job out of the Nursing Dept, such as the CNA's did. Or, leave all together. Yes, it was administration, someone from a big city who came to a small town. But the RN's on staff were hometown. Makes me wonder what exactly is being taught in nursing schools today.
As far as religious beliefs. If a bed bath is given correctly, the pt isn't exposed, since the task also teaches how to change the hospital gown without exposeing the pt. And my religion is about as strict as can be on modesty. It's part of the nurses training, and if done properly, there is no problem. And that is why the students, at least when I was in school, first practiced on the manakin, then on each other, then signed off that task to perform that task on pts in clinical in the hospital. There was no hazing involved, just part of the training.
The IV and other injections performed on each other, you can perform this task on as many of the training arms as you want, but it still doesn't compare with the real deal. No more than inserting an ET tube in the training head, and the purpose for "doing" on each other for the IV's was so we could get the feel for how to find, how to keep a rolling vein from rolling, whatever on a real person. In addition for EMT's we don't always have the luxury of more lighting, and a nice still and sterile environment, so we had to learn how to do it, on a dark night, with whatever the lighting is in an Ambulance, going code blue down the back roads. So, yeah, we had to practice on each other so we could "get it" first try. No time to play around in the back of an Ambulance.
As far as empathy toward another, and pt right to refusal. You can still be professional and have empathy for your pts. It's called "old fashioned nursing care." Sure pts have the right to refuse, but we have the responsibility to encourage them to not refuse. Find out why they want to refuse, maybe it's something as simple as timing, maybe they don't like a morning bath would prefer a bath at night, no big deal. The key is if you go into a pts room and blurt out: "Ok Mrs. Jones, it's time for your bath" when you are scurying to gather things, Mrs. Jones may pick up that you don't realy want to give her a bath, and will refuse. I've seen and heard some of these same RN's in my past do this. I would refuse treatment from them myself. Body language can go as far or as short as you want despite what you are saying, or how you are saying. The same comment, but delivered with direct eye contact, and a smile to your pt can get a more positive response, then gather the equipment from the bedside stand and ready the room. That's part of the bedbath training exersise too. How are you going to tell your pt it's time for a bath, and how are you going to prepare for the task.
OMG, i have never heard of doing bed baths on eachother in nursing school, i would not participate in this, i would go directly to the administration of your school, or the board of nursing for your state and ask questions, this is totally unacceptable. when i was in school we learned all of our skills in a lab with mannaquins, there were some things we did with a partner, but certainly not a bed bath, or anything else that required taking off our clothes, i would absolutely check into this, it doesn't seem morally, ethically or legally appropriate for the school to demand this type of behavior or get kicked out of school for it. I WOULD NOT DO IT.
When I was in Nursing school a similar issue came up. We gathered together and stated that this was not a reasonable request. The solution was a clothed demonstration. They later could check our skill off in clinical. I agree. This is a rediculous practice. Your instructor must be "old school".
Have you thought about going to the head of your program. I just cant believe that you would be put in such a compromising position. I think as students (I am an RN) you can get more than enough practice in giving baths right at the HOSPITAL bedside.
If you go to the head of your program it should be the whole class or the majority and remember be professional and I would let them know your reasons about abuse expereinced but not have to divulge as to what actually took place. Best of Luck to you. Please let us know the outcome of this...
Specializes in OB/Women's Health, ER, Admin, Education.
LPN student in bathing distress,
At first look, my response was going to be "get over yourself and just do it!" Reading further, I get why it is problematic for you and understand completely. I would speak first to the instructor of the course, giving them the same details you have posted here. If you are unsuccessful there, I would then go to the director of the nursing program. And if yet unsuccessful there, whatever the next "administrative" level or step is beyond that. Understand, however, that if this is a policy of the program, you may ultimately have to give in and comply or find another program.
I am a nurse-midwife who is a man (there aren't many of us out there; less than 1% of CNM's in the U.S. are men). Part of learning to do speculum exams in our program was to do them on each other. Well guess what? I don't have the right parts! The instructor came to me and asked me to provide my own "model". I was married at the time and my wife was content to do this (it cost me some shopping and dinner afterwards, however). Six other women in the class refused to be examined and their option was to provide their own model. One woman in the class had worked as a "model" for a medical school and offered to be the "patient" for the 6 classmates at $25 each (this was the early 90's). As it turned out, several of my classmates told me and my wife they would have been fine w/ me examining that if they had known. Why do I tell you this? Well two reasons. First, when going to speak to your faculty about your concern, if you come with a proactive plan (you being willing to bring someone to perform your bed bath on), that helps solve a large part of the issue (the notion of giving a bed bath to a person rather than a mannequin or just watching it on a video). Secondly, I want to emphasize, there IS indeed value in understanding what patient's go through. Desensitizing ourselves to these things by experiencing some of these procedures IS indeed a useful technique in building sensitivity. My midwifery professor had me disrobe and lay covered only w/ a sheet on an exam table in a room alone for several minutes and then proceeded to come in and act as if she were going to examine me (although she didn't), just so I would feel the sense of vulnerability that some women feel being unclothed on an exam table in a healthcare provider's office, etc.
All the best in getting this resolved.
Darryn Dunbar, RNC, APN/CNM, MS
Faculty, Department of Nursing
Truman College
Chicago, IL
& Resource CNM
NorthShore University Healthcare-Evanston Hospital
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
. . .As far as religious beliefs. If a bed bath is given correctly, the pt isn't exposed, since the task also teaches how to change the hospital gown without exposeing the pt. And my religion is about as strict as can be on modesty. It's part of the nurses training, and if done properly, there is no problem. And that is why the students, at least when I was in school, first practiced on the manakin, then on each other, then signed off that task to perform that task on pts in clinical in the hospital. There was no hazing involved, just part of the training.
It isn't our place to tell someone "if the bed bath is done correctly, there is no problem". We have no right to tell someone who practices a certain religion what is "no problem". There are hundreds of religions and sects. Maybe it's the exposure issue, maybe it isn't. Do I understand the reasoning behind every religious prohibition against anything? No. That's why we allow people to tell us what they are allowed to do or not do with respect to religious/ethical concerns bathing classmates.
It's different today - children are taught at an early age to be more aware of their bodies, to assert their rights NOT to be touched if it is unwelcome in any way, and to be much more vocal than we were if something makes them uncomfortable. I believe this is reflected in the many comments here from people who are asserting that right. A patient in a hospital knows there is an unavoidable loss of modesty as part of their role as a patient, but the classroom is a social group. This bears repeating - It's a social group, not a medical setting.
This may be classified as TMI, but I look back at my own life and marvel that when I was 17 years old I went for a job interview at a KFC my male friend worked at, and the 40-something manager asked me a bunch of highly inappropriate questions that any teenager of today would have probably walked out on and maybe called the police. I just sat there stock still thinking WTH?? I had no framework to put it. No one had ever told me that could happen or what to do if it did. Thank God for the most part children are taught that they are the owners of their bodies and many are extrapolating that to their nursing classroom experience. The hazing aspect is the exertion of psychological pressure to do this and the threat of negative repercussions to their nursing school experience. Really? Are we really going to kick someone out of school over that? Apparently the answer to the OP of this thread is yes.
Sometimes the defenders of this practice will say "boys are bathing boys" and "girls are bathing girls" so again, it goes. . . no problem! Obviously this presupposes that everyone is heterosexual and has no gender identity issues, fear, discomfort or unresolved psychological conflicts. When we went to school most of us were young, healthy females, and nursing education still contains strong themes of female-centered values. Although I do know that many young men are not bothered by the bath thing, and in fact in other threads addressing this issue make "jokes" -wink-wink- about hoping they get the cutest girl in the class as their partner, etc. That really is not funny if you're the girl in question. Similar attempts at humor are made at the expense of guys, too.
Students today are much more diverse in age as well. Should someone with a partial breast reconstruction have to go through the fear of exposure to total strangers in her class for example? Should she even have to explain it, talk about it, ask for an excuse and have everyone wonder what her problem is? Such comments from students who've done this still lean very heavily on the "fun" and the "bonding" and "the giggles" the bath thing provided. It sounds more like an episode of realworld than an opportunity to learn how to effectively scrub someone's arm. I don't think that's fair, and it certainly isn't worth whatever meager value in improved bed bath technique there might be.
WOW. That's awful. In my program, the only "procedure" we had to perform on each other was giving each other injections of sterile water subQ. We've also done assessments on each other, but that's no big deal. But then we're in Iowa and this area is pretty religious. However, there are a few students in my class who believe we should perform every skill we learn on each other - from NG tubes to catheters.
I totally get where you're coming from. I was the victim of rape and sexual battery in 2003. I don't have any scars, but it's extremely difficult for me to even wear a swimming suit in front of people I don't know very well and trust to the nth degree. I start shaking and hyperventilating...it's awful. So I can understand why you don't want to do this.
My instructor must be different from most - she would NEVER make us do something that hurt us (mentally or physically) and she's a very good teacher. Our class average in every course is about 90% which is a B. I've heard stories about instructors who don't really care about their students much and don't really teach - they just tell the students what they need to do and make them do everything on their own.
Now, I don't know what category your instructor falls under, but I would at least try to talk to her about it. If she's uncooperative, go to the Dean of Nursing or the head of your nursing program. You may need to see a school psychiatrist or counselor and have them sign something as well. If the head of nursing won't help, I would keep going up the line. You could also say that you feel violated and that it kind of feels like sexual harassment. That's how I would feel - almost like I was being sexually harassed by my instructors - by being required to remove most of my clothes and allow another person to wash me. Usually schools will back down when terms like harassment are used.
If you ask me, giving bed baths in the nursing program is kind of redundant. You all should have learned that - and given one on a real person - in your CNA class. Performing one on a mannequin or dummy should be enough. In my program, our instructor expected us to know all the skills a CNA knows and she said it was a waste of time to use class time to perform them, that it was our own problem if we hadn't bothered to learn them. And why in the heck would you guys need to be mostly naked to practice a bed bath on each other? You should be able to practice without water and soap - just pretend.
Specializes in OB/Women's Health, ER, Admin, Education.
ChinacatSN,
Not all programs require students to be CNA's. I teach in a large ADN program in a Metropolitan area. While several of our students are CNA's, it is not required. SEVERAL/MOST university based programs do not require a CNA certificate, so it's certainly not redundant if one has never done it, ya know?
I get people's point. If everyone could just realize that a) everyone has a point of view and b) be respectful of other's points of view...THAT is the adult and professional thing to do. Mannequins serve a purpose. But doing your first bath on a fragile, ill/ailing person when you've never bathed anyone but yourself can be a horrifying experience for someone new to healthcare. This is why doing it on a presumably healthy adult is/can be a useful experience, albeit not perfect for many of the reasons pointed out in this thread.
nursel56
7,122 Posts
Take heart - the tide is turning on this issue - from one who has also been there as I went to nursing school 35 years ago. Giving a bed bath is not difficult at all. Your future patients will be of all ages, weights, genders, cultural backgrounds and functional limitations. One bed bath on one classmate is not going to make any difference unless, as we have seen, the true reason for doing it isn't skills at all, but more like a hazing ritual if you read what people are writing about YOU having to get over YOUR issues via the exercise of stripping you of your personal modesty boundaries as a rite of passage.
I've never had a bone marrow aspiration. But you can be sure I have lots of empathy because I can use my imagination to grasp what it might be like, and I can listen to what people tell me, I can watch the cues they are giving, and I can modify the way I approach a procedure based on that - hopefully improving on it as I go. It is ridiculous to say that you can't have empathy without having a procedure done on yourself by a classmate. There is an ill-defined hidden agenda there that is often sprung as a surprise on students and it causes them needless anxiety and even heartache within a group of people wholly unqualified to "fix" that through the bed bath ritual.