In class today, our instructor informed us that we would be required to give one another bed baths as part of the course. The majority of the class are females, and we also have a few men. We were told the men would work with the men, the women with the women.
Basically, we'd be required to bring a bathing suit to class, change and be (I hate to use the term this way) forced to recieve a bed bath. For many of us, this doesn't exactly sit well. I understand the experience is to give us a sense of empathy and compassion for patients, but for me personally, this is going a bit over the line and even though this is coming around in a few weeks, I'm already feeling extremely violated
We were also informed that if we refused, we would be kicked out of the program. Also, many of us don't even own bathing suits - as we were discussing it on break, about 70% of us don't even own one; we brought this up to our instructor and were told that if we didn't own one, we'd have to do it in our bras and underwear. Personally, this is really overwhelming for me.
Now, mind you, I do not have anything against giving a bath or bed bath to an individual - I worked in a NYS ARC for a period of time and that was part of my job as a direct support professional.
My issues with this are extremely personal - its not about stretch marks from pregnancy or weight gain like many of the other women had mentioned; I have some severe scarring from being a victim of abuse years ago. Its not something I wish to flaunt or have to explain to people. Even going to the doctor's office, I have a very difficult time undressing and more often than not, I keep my clothing on.
I read a previous post from 2008 on the subject - how many LPN students had to go through the same procedures, but there were also alternatives - dry baths, with students fully clothed, etc (I could deal with that).
I don't want to lose this oppertunity because of this (once again, refusal = dismissal from the program).
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
Way back when dinasors roamed the earth, is when I took my training. But I do remember when we were being taught bed baths. YES, we did bathe each other. To the ones who are disgusted with it, how well do you GIVE a bed bath? Or do you quickly swipe over the patient, not realy giving them a good "scrubbing?"
Anyway, the premiss is that if you can give a good bedbath to your classmate/lab partner, then you can give a good bed bath to your patient. And knowing how embarassing it can be, you will have the empathy toward your patient, so you will remember to close the window blinds, close the door, and put the "treatment in progress" sign on the door to minimize interuptions. And you will think twice before interupting anyone else who is administering a bed bath, and respect that patients privacy.
I disagree with the person who suggested you go to your instructor and try to work something out to not do this task. How are you going to learn if you don't actualy do it. How are you going to have empathy for your patient if you don't know what they are feeling? Get over yourself! Suck it up. And take your bath, then take your turn at giving a bath to your lab partner. It's not going to kill you! When you get to your Pharmacology practicals, and have to give an injection to each other, are you going to be squeemish about that? YES, that is part of your training too, you have to give an IM injection in the Gluteous Maximus. Reason for that site? So you can learn how to avoid the Ciatic Nerve.
at common law, battery is the tort of intentionally (or, in australia, negligently) and voluntarily bringing about an unconsented harmful or offensive contact with a person or to something closely associated with them (e.g. a hat, a purse). unlike assault, battery involves an actual contact. the contact can be by one person (the tortfeasor) of another (the victim), or the contact may be by an object brought about by the tortfeasor. for example, the intentional contact by a car is a battery.
unlike criminal law, which recognizes degrees of various crimes involving physical contact, there is but a single tort of battery. lightly flicking a person's ear is battery, as is severely beating someone with a tire iron. neither is there a separate tort for a battery of a sexual nature. however, a jury hearing a battery case is free to assess higher damages for a battery in which the contact was particularly offensive or harmful. (wikipedia)
i was in an rn program long ago, and we "simulated" a bath with a fully clothed lab partner and a basin of "fake water". mostly verbailizing when to change the water and when to get a new washcloth. in all actually it's a bunch of crap to check off on baths, every nurse that i know fills up the basin with every detergent type solution we can find, lots of warm (hot) water, and lots of washcloths. you use a cloth and throw it in the drity laudry, grab a fresh one and move on to the next body part. the water gets dumped when the bath is over. all that water changing never made sense to me. do you refill the bathtub every time you soap up a limb? (no!)
in grad school (just finished my family nurse practitioner program in may) we did have to do breast exams on students. my professor was a ***** and decided to seperate the two guys in the class into different groups so that we'd have to do a breast exam on a female. we were also told that the girls could wear a sports bra. on the day of the check off, the other male student went first in his group and made the comment that he couldn't really feel anything since his lab partner had on a sports bra, but he verablized what he was looking for and the correct technique for breast exam. professor ***** decided that my lab partner couldn't wear her sports bra and told her while she was putting on her patient gown for our check off. i entered the room with no clue that this poor girl was braless. when we got to the breast exam part, i explained what we were going to do and my partner just looked scared, i lifted her gown and there was a nipple staring back at me instead of a sports bra. being that this professor had a habit of trying to mess with me, i did the whole exam without a hitch, thanked my lab partner for being so professional and helpful in furthering my knowledge and then commented that the professor was a compete jerk for not letting both of us know before hand and giving us the option of choosing a different lab partner if we felt uncomfortable. the professor just laughed and said, "get used to it".
i agree, students and professors have a much different relationship than nurses and patients. my lab partner was a young, pretty black female, i'm a 45 year old gay man. she was horrified that i had to touch her breast and i probably should have stopped the exam and had a discussion with the professor.
i honestly feel that this is yet another one of the "games" that nursing instructors like to play. it seems that they are on this estrogen power trip sometimes. i went to graduate school with the sole intention of teaching nursing school. there has to be a better, easier, more empathetic, less stressful way to educate new nurses.
I am an instructor, and we have our students wear shorts and either a t-shirt or tank top. It is no big deal. If one of my students came to me with your issues, I would excuse them, or let them leave their clothes on. IT should not be an issue.\
We left our clothes on while giving each other a bed bath. That was the most wasted part of the program. It changed the following year as you had to be a CNA to be accepted into the program. I think that works better. It's just my opinion though.
Nope. Wouldn't do it. As one post stated the realtionship between nurse and patient totally different. I would not want to finish nursing school with a bunch of people who have seen me in my skivvies. I actually was hospitalized one time during pregnancy at the university hospital and a med student came in and wanted to examine me. I graciously declined and told him that since we graduated high school together it made me uncomfortable. Point is the patient has rights to refuse anyone for any reason and your rights should not be violated as a student either. How's that for being put in a patients shoes?
If they absolutely refuse and you feel as though you must do this is there someone you would feel comfortable with? Can you pick your partner like a friend you may have in class?
We did not have to do this in RN school. We used a mannequin and then actual patients. It's a bed bath, come on. If you were intelligent enough to pass the testing and pre read for your program then they should feel you are competant enough to give a bath.
Absolutely great! Patient rights! I wouldn't do either, but then again, these students are being pressured or else they are out. What a crock of bs. We didn't have to do bed baths at all. We also didn't inject eachother with needles - I think the school have gone a little crazy. You do that in clinicals....
There are many nurses who will not have surgery on their own unit so as not to be taken care of by their co-workers. It's just uncomfortable.
I can't believe the school are getting away with this!
(Breast exams too on fellow students! What a joke. Hey - I have an idea - why don't they just bring in prostitutes and pay them!!!!)
While I think the posting party does have a valid reason for wanting to avoid the simulated bath I don't think the average person should have such an issue, after all the point of it isn't as much to see if you are capable of giving a bath as to show you as a student how all the patients that you will be performing such undignifying things such as bed baths, catheterizations, and enema administration on feel. I do not think it is an outrageous request. I am in an LPN program and there are a number of people in there who have some serious personal space issues, 6 weeks into it they are realizing that they may have made a mistake perhaps if we had to do the faux bed bath in the 1st 2 weeks they could have saved their tuition.
I see where some of you are coming from, but having reservations about exposing yourself to classmates doesn't have anything to do with your ability to perform the task. I'm perfectly comfortable with someone else's naked body but keep mine covered at all costs unless absolutely necessary. I've had 4 children and various medical procedures that were quite embarassing for me personally so I've been exposed to more than my fair share of professionals. Still doesn't mean I'd want my friends, coworkers, or classmates to see me even in my underwear. I've also been married for 15 years and even in my post 2 baby 130 pound fully exercised body chose not to run around naked in front of my husband. Personal choices. Your body doesn't embarass me, I provide you with the utmost privacy possible, and make sure you're as clean as a whistle, but I'm not staring at you every day while I'm trying to take a test either. I can't imagine for someone who has trauma they're trying to hide. It's a modesty issue. If she's so against it, it shows she does know how that patient might feel. So the empathy thing is lost on me. By the way, we don't give shots or start IVs on other students either.
Way back when dinasors roamed the earth, is when I took my training. But I do remember when we were being taught bed baths. YES, we did bathe each other. To the ones who are disgusted with it, how well do you GIVE a bed bath? Or do you quickly swipe over the patient, not realy giving them a good "scrubbing?"
Anyway, the premiss is that if you can give a good bedbath to your classmate/lab partner, then you can give a good bed bath to your patient. And knowing how embarassing it can be, you will have the empathy toward your patient, so you will remember to close the window blinds, close the door, and put the "treatment in progress" sign on the door to minimize interuptions. And you will think twice before interupting anyone else who is administering a bed bath, and respect that patients privacy.
I disagree with the person who suggested you go to your instructor and try to work something out to not do this task. How are you going to learn if you don't actualy do it. How are you going to have empathy for your patient if you don't know what they are feeling? Get over yourself! Suck it up. And take your bath, then take your turn at giving a bath to your lab partner. It's not going to kill you! When you get to your Pharmacology practicals, and have to give an injection to each other, are you going to be squeemish about that? YES, that is part of your training too, you have to give an IM injection in the Gluteous Maximus. Reason for that site? So you can learn how to avoid the Ciatic Nerve.
"get over yourself! suck it up." Did you learn that empathy whilst giving your classmate a bath? Soooooo glad you have never been my nurse.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
When I'm a patient in the Hospital, the last thing I want is a new grad to come at me with a needle to either inject me, or start an IV, and not have had any experience. Save it if you are ranting that you did 100 sticks on the trainer arm perfectly. CRAP, that's not my viens that are deep and roll. I don't want someone who's shaky because she/he is lacking in actual human experience. And I don't want anyone giving me a deep IM injection and not familiar with proper site placement and risk hitting MY ciatic nerve. Can we all say "law suit?" You bet your bootie, I'll sue on that one!
When I did training for my EMT, yes, we practiced on the manakins, did our ET Tubes, IV's and injections. Then we had to practice IV's and injections on each other, ET Tubes is something different, that had to be done in the OR, or if we were lucky enough to have a code while on ride time we got to do them in the field. But the IV's and Injections, and cardiac tab placement for 12 lead, how else are you going to SEE where to place the tabs if you don't bare the chest, and reach under the breasts? So, you learn how to drape the pt with a towel. That's part of practicing with your lab partner, and by that time in the training, you've gotten to know your partner enough so you shouldn't have body issues and can perform the proceedure in a professional manner.
So, this does explain a few things on the last time my mother was addmitted to the hospital. A hospital that phased out LPN's and staff only with RN's. Mom was in the hospital for a week, was physicaly weakened from the pneumonia that she couldn't hold her head up for the first three days, let alone take her own bath, even a sponge bath. And none of the RN's who were assigned to her gave her a bath, by the end of three days of sweating from elevated temps/fever, and having "accidents" AKA incontinent, she reaked so badly it gagged me when I was able to get to her. Oh, her bed sheets weren't changed either. The RN did tell me she changed the attends on Mom from when she was incontinent. But when I asked if anyone helped her to the bath room, because I know it's embarassing for Mom to have an "accident" both the nurses, RN's, who had been assigned to my Mom the prior three days said "she never rang her bell that she had to go to the BR." No one bothered to ask her when they were in the room, just let her sit there all day! And these are collegues of mine! So, I gathered clean linens, towels, washclothes, clean hospital gown, since Mom was still on IV therapy. Opened her admissions kit, yup it hadn't been opened, and proceeded to wash her, put a clean gown on her, sat her up on the bedside commode while I made her bed with clean sheets and blankets, gave her peri care after she finished onthe commode, and helped her back to bed. Only to be told "families aren't supposed to go into the clean utility room." So, if schools are teaching that it's ok to forego the bedbath training, that explains why baths aren't given in the hospitals anymore. Too bad so sad, you have to endure some embarassment for the few minutes it takes to do a bed bath on each other. What about the embarassment my Mom felt as a patient who didn't receive proper and basic care? What about all the Nursing home residents who are sent back to the nursing home from the hospital smelling, no reaking of urine, fecal matter smeared all over their back sides, food drooled down their chin, and they are still in the hospital gown they left the nursing home a week ago upon return to the nursing home. What about basic old fashioned care? Oh, forgive me, we have to go to mambypamby land because some whimp a++ RN nursing student is embarassed to have her/his lab partner see their skin. What's the difference, in class with a drape, or at the bar room with a skimpy T shirt dress and no undies?
Oh, the other two shifts, I wasn't any to happy with them either, so I stayed with Mom and did all, ALL of her bedside care myself. Yes, this lowly LPN did the care the RN was being paid to do in a hospital that phased out LPN's. Makes me wonder how things would have turned out if I couldn't get away from my job and travel the hour to my Mom and take care of her myself. Yes, I did mention this in the discharge survey from the hospital but we all know things like this get swept under the rug. And what else to do? It's the only hospital for the entire south end of the county. Live in a very rural area, not as many choices as in a metro area. Not many jobs either, that's why I live an hour away from my family.
So, think about that when you are embarassed to have your classmate see your skin, what is more embarassing? Your classmate, who should be professional enough by this time to overlook some flaws in your skin, or an elderly person who needs to be cared for but isn't, and sits in filth for three days?
If a pt. can technically refuse a bed bath...then why can't a student?? What is this really teaching them?
How exactly would bathing your colleagues make you a better nurse / bed-bath giver? I guess the theory is that you "learn humility and empathy" and put yourself in a vulnerable position like a typical bed-bath recipient. Meaning, don't leave parts exposed that don't need to be exposed, don't point and laugh at the patient, be gentle. I'm sorry but if you can't figure that out without having someone bathe you first, you probably are going into the wrong profession.
When I'm a patient in the Hospital, the last thing I want is a new grad to come at me with a needle to either inject me, or start an IV, and not have had any experience. Save it if you are ranting that you did 100 sticks on the trainer arm perfectly. CRAP, that's not my viens that are deep and roll. I don't want someone who's shaky because she/he is lacking in actual human experience. And I don't want anyone giving me a deep IM injection and not familiar with proper site placement and risk hitting MY ciatic nerve. Can we all say "law suit?" You bet your bootie, I'll sue on that one!
When I did training for my EMT, yes, we practiced on the manakins, did our ET Tubes, IV's and injections. Then we had to practice IV's and injections on each other, ET Tubes is something different, that had to be done in the OR, or if we were lucky enough to have a code while on ride time we got to do them in the field. But the IV's and Injections, and cardiac tab placement for 12 lead, how else are you going to SEE where to place the tabs if you don't bare the chest, and reach under the breasts? So, you learn how to drape the pt with a towel. That's part of practicing with your lab partner, and by that time in the training, you've gotten to know your partner enough so you shouldn't have body issues and can perform the proceedure in a professional manner.
So, this does explain a few things on the last time my mother was addmitted to the hospital. A hospital that phased out LPN's and staff only with RN's. Mom was in the hospital for a week, was physicaly weakened from the pneumonia that she couldn't hold her head up for the first three days, let alone take her own bath, even a sponge bath. And none of the RN's who were assigned to her gave her a bath, by the end of three days of sweating from elevated temps/fever, and having "accidents" AKA incontinent, she reaked so badly it gagged me when I was able to get to her. Oh, her bed sheets weren't changed either. The RN did tell me she changed the attends on Mom from when she was incontinent. But when I asked if anyone helped her to the bath room, because I know it's embarassing for Mom to have an "accident" both the nurses, RN's, who had been assigned to my Mom the prior three days said "she never rang her bell that she had to go to the BR." No one bothered to ask her when they were in the room, just let her sit there all day! And these are collegues of mine! So, I gathered clean linens, towels, washclothes, clean hospital gown, since Mom was still on IV therapy. Opened her admissions kit, yup it hadn't been opened, and proceeded to wash her, put a clean gown on her, sat her up on the bedside commode while I made her bed with clean sheets and blankets, gave her peri care after she finished onthe commode, and helped her back to bed. Only to be told "families aren't supposed to go into the clean utility room." So, if schools are teaching that it's ok to forego the bedbath training, that explains why baths aren't given in the hospitals anymore. Too bad so sad, you have to endure some embarassment for the few minutes it takes to do a bed bath on each other. What about the embarassment my Mom felt as a patient who didn't receive proper and basic care? What about all the Nursing home residents who are sent back to the nursing home from the hospital smelling, no reaking of urine, fecal matter smeared all over their back sides, food drooled down their chin, and they are still in the hospital gown they left the nursing home a week ago upon return to the nursing home. What about basic old fashioned care? Oh, forgive me, we have to go to mambypamby land because some whimp a++ RN nursing student is embarassed to have her/his lab partner see their skin. What's the difference, in class with a drape, or at the bar room with a skimpy T shirt dress and no undies?
Oh, the other two shifts, I wasn't any to happy with them either, so I stayed with Mom and did all, ALL of her bedside care myself. Yes, this lowly LPN did the care the RN was being paid to do in a hospital that phased out LPN's. Makes me wonder how things would have turned out if I couldn't get away from my job and travel the hour to my Mom and take care of her myself. Yes, I did mention this in the discharge survey from the hospital but we all know things like this get swept under the rug. And what else to do? It's the only hospital for the entire south end of the county. Live in a very rural area, not as many choices as in a metro area. Not many jobs either, that's why I live an hour away from my family.
So, think about that when you are embarassed to have your classmate see your skin, what is more embarassing? Your classmate, who should be professional enough by this time to overlook some flaws in your skin, or an elderly person who needs to be cared for but isn't, and sits in filth for three days?
That's a terrible shame, and an example of poor nursing care. I sincerely doubt though these instances have anything to do with nurses being embarassed about their bodies. This facility phased out LPNs, does that mean they don't have CNA's either? I went through this with my mother and her hospital stays as well before she passed. I changed her clothes and linens and cleaned her up many times. It's definitely no excuse, but her nurses had high ratios and no CNA/LPN help. They tried, but everytime the nurse would come in they were getting called back out again for something more critical. Poor administration.
As for the IV sticks and shots, well that one I can't help you on. We do plenty of those in the hospital on actual patients, and if someone is especially good at it and their patient needs it done the nursing instructors will bring another student in that hasn't had as much practice. All of our skills are validated on actual patients. There's no way they'd let us perform procedures on each other in the lab, for liability reasons. There is no nurse, LPN or RN, who can graduate and get a job and perform as well as a nurse with 20 years experience. Or 10, or 2. It all comes over time.
I'm still not showing my classmates my undressed body, just like I wouldn't show it in a bar room. It is what it is. Some of us were raised to be more modest than that.
P.S. Wonder what they do with the students when it goes against their religious beliefs?
nursedora
105 Posts
Way back when dinasors roamed the earth, is when I took my training. But I do remember when we were being taught bed baths. YES, we did bathe each other. To the ones who are disgusted with it, how well do you GIVE a bed bath? Or do you quickly swipe over the patient, not realy giving them a good "scrubbing?"
Anyway, the premiss is that if you can give a good bedbath to your classmate/lab partner, then you can give a good bed bath to your patient. And knowing how embarassing it can be, you will have the empathy toward your patient, so you will remember to close the window blinds, close the door, and put the "treatment in progress" sign on the door to minimize interuptions. And you will think twice before interupting anyone else who is administering a bed bath, and respect that patients privacy.
I disagree with the person who suggested you go to your instructor and try to work something out to not do this task. How are you going to learn if you don't actualy do it. How are you going to have empathy for your patient if you don't know what they are feeling? Get over yourself! Suck it up. And take your bath, then take your turn at giving a bath to your lab partner. It's not going to kill you! When you get to your Pharmacology practicals, and have to give an injection to each other, are you going to be squeemish about that? YES, that is part of your training too, you have to give an IM injection in the Gluteous Maximus. Reason for that site? So you can learn how to avoid the Ciatic Nerve.