Little advice needed...kind of personal

land64shark · Apr 6, 2005

Well, I'm terrible at telling other people things that might hurt their feelings, but she's got to go!

Here's something else to consider. Taking A&P online is HARD! You are so on your own. I'm sure you will have no trouble with it, but there's no way "person A" should even attempt it. My professor says that anyone that is having trouble needs to get themselves to campus and take the class in the classroom. Maybe you should try and convince her to do so.

smile123 · Apr 6, 2005

Hey:)
I have bounced this off my boyfriend but now I need more input:)
I have a friend at school. I'll call her " Person A" :). I met Person A last semester when we realized we were both taking 2 of the same courses and became friends. Person A is on the same pre-req path as me to be a nurse.
This semester Person A and I planned to take A+P I together. Right now I am sitting with an overall high A(99.3)....Person A is sitting with barely a C(71.1).
Person A isn't dumb...she's actually very smart WHEN she applies herself. The problem is Person A is my lab partner...and as the semester has gone on..the less she has applied herself..the worse her grades have gotten the MORE she has been relying on me to tutor her....and sometimes when I try- she actually pays attention...usually when I try- she makes a joke out of it. My time is valuable... I have stressed that..when I do..Person A claims I wouldn't KNOW b/c this is my only class..and she's taking 2 others ( and , yes, I have taken multiple classes at once so I KNOW)
So now I just got notice that I can take A+P II online over the summer. Well Person A just found that out too and sent me an email about how excited she is about it- because we can BOTH take it online and we can study together. Yadda Yadda
OK here's the god's honest truth. I can't stand to study with Person A. To be honest I can't really stand to study with ANYONE. I am one of those people who is VERY VERY good at alone study..and VERY VERY BAD at group study ( to be honest...I get annoyed).
At her current pace...Person A has NO CHANCE of being admitted to the program next Spring. I have worked long and HARD for my 4.0 and the LAST thing I need is to spend ANOTHER semester dealing with her horrible study habits and at times..she's highly annoying in class ( she talks a LOT and falls asleep often).. I also don't think it's FAIR that I study my butt off and she comes running to me before every test to " help her out"
But *sigh* I am a kind soul...and I try my best. Today she claims she BOMBED lab test #3...so she's probably in D range at the moment. If she doesn't pull back up to a C...it wont matter- she WONT be able to go on to A+P II.
My question is 2 fold:
#1. Would you be HONEST ...I mean flat out HONEST to Person A and tell them that their lack of studying/commitment/ etc - REALLy makes you NOT want to deal with them again during A+P II...and that for the rest of THIS semester ( which is the meat+bones..hardest part) she's ON HER OWN
or
#2. Kindly tell Person A that they'd probably be better off taking A+P I over again....which is probably true...although there is a slight tinge of " it gets you out of the same class as me" to that.
I just don't know... I feel bad...I really do... I really like her...but as a lab partner/study partner she's on my last nerve...and I almost feel like I need to be BRUTALLY honest with her...she HAS to take A+P I again or she won't get in.
Thoughts?

Hey BoonersMom,

Do you remember the saying, "People only take advantage of you if you let them?" In this case it is true. You have got to stand up for yourself. You could tell her that you want to study on your own this next quarter because you are trying out something different with this online class. Period. You do not owe her any explanations further than that. If she asks why, just repeat the same sentence. Then walk away or change the subject.

What could end up happening is that she will not complete A&P I and will not be able to go on with A&P II.

Here's another way to think about it: there is 1 slot left for the RN school you want. The school can give it to her or to you. Who do you want to have the slot? Student "A" because you just want to be nice because you know in your heart of hearts that she could really learn the material if she just applied herself in RN school OR YOU because you do take the time to study and have applied yourself now? Stand up for yourself and do not feel "guilty" about it.

Don't get me wrong. I help people out all the time. But if people don't even attempt the work or expect me to spoon feed them the answers, I draw the line. I say, "Why don't you try the problem on your own and get back to me when you have something so we can check answers?" If they say, "Oh, but I need to turn the paper in now...can't you just give me the answer?" "I'm sorry, but that's not really helping you to learn is it?" Or if the class has a study honor code about cheating, perhaps you could point to that.

Suggest they go to the prof, the TA or the tutoring center for additional help and they go there early instead of asking you for the answer the hour before it's due in class. In other words, they need to go to someone else who is in a better position (time wise and resource wise) to teach them.

You are not meant to be a martyr and save everyone! It's very draining emotional and psychologically, which you are experiencing now! You are in school to learn and apply yourself. Her problem is NOT your problem. The argument about, "Well you have only 1 class and I have more than 1" is a regular copout. So what? She needs to apply herself fully in all her classes and should not expect you to be a crutch for her. She has a time management problem and needs to recognize it.

You want to be a RN right? Part of being a RN is to assert yourself, draw boundaries and set expectations. That way you don't get burned out and feel badly when people ask you to do everything for them! You can always be a kind soul, but it doesn't need to involve doing someone's work for them!!!

Hope this helps!

Smile123

elizabells, BSN, RN · Apr 6, 2005

Hi BoonersMom

So here's the minute amount of wisdom I've gleaned from life: you don't owe anyone anything. Yes, it is fantastic and important to be a nice person and help people out, but you have to set boundaries. Did you have some kind of influence in this person's brain chemistry or life circumstances that made her slightly dim or have poor habits? No? Then you're done. You did what you could, and helping her is causing you to suffer. I know this sounds harsh and kind of Ayn Rand-ish, but after a lifetime of Catholic guilt, I'm over it. We, as aspiring nurses, are naturally the kind of people who want to help others. That's super. But if you're freaked out and busy and cranky because this woman is leeching off you, you're no help to anyone. Not your own self, not your family, not your patients, and ultimately, you're not helping her either. If she only makes it through because you're carrying her, she's not going to learn her lesson and change. Sometimes you have to let people fall so they can catch themselves. What is she going to do when the NCLEX comes? What is she going to do if she somehow passes it and manages to get a job? Take care of yourself, darlin.

BoonersmomRN · Apr 6, 2005

Thanks everyone.

I had a talk with her this afternoon. I told her that I really liked her and it would be nice if we continued on the path together...but that she needs to study much much harder and to do so on her own. I said I didn't mind it if she had questions she wanted to bounce off me...or even if she needed explanations...but that I don't have the time or the energy ( BOY is that true HA HA) to pull her along anymore or spend oodles of time trying to explain things that had she just paid attention in class- she'd know. She was kind of upset- basically said she knows she won't get into II at this point unless some kind of " miracle happens" ( that miracle, would be studying!). I told her I was sorry and that even if she had to repeat I over the summer...if she took II in the fall we'd still be in the same Spring nursing class SHOULD she be accepted. I told her I really didn't want to be mean...but that she isn't going to get in going this way...because it just gets harder and MORE time consuming. I suggested she take I over again by itself w/no other courses.

What makes me angry is that she kept insinuating that it's "easier" for me because I don't have any other classes right now. Maybe not, but I have 2 kids and a job and that itself is a LOT of work...and it's not any easier for me then when I had multiple classes...because none of THOSE classes even came close to the amount of time I have had to put towards A+P I. The exact amount if not MORE I will have to put into A+P II over the summer..which is shorter...so MORE info to learn in a shorter time.

Well, I wish her well. THANKS EVERYONE!

brwnngj · Apr 6, 2005

Well, I'm terrible at telling other people things that might hurt their feelings, but she's got to go!
Here's something else to consider. Taking A&P online is HARD! You are so on your own. I'm sure you will have no trouble with it, but there's no way "person A" should even attempt it. My professor says that anyone that is having trouble needs to get themselves to campus and take the class in the classroom. Maybe you should try and convince her to do so.

This is soooooooooo True I just finished taking A&PI online and if I had it to do over again I think I would take it in the classroom. I don't think you will have any problems with an online class because it sounds like you are self motivated however I serously doubt she would be able to pull through. I honestly feel as though I put more into that class than any other class I have taken in the year of going to school and still got a C in the class. It is extremely tough and you really do have to be self motivating in order to pull it off.

hypnotic_nurse · Apr 6, 2005

What makes me angry is that she kept insinuating that it's "easier" for me because I don't have any other classes right now.

This is coming from her need to be a victim and not take responsibility for her own actions.

She could have studied harder. She could have paid attention in class. She could have taken fewer classes. You planned well and she didn't. Period.

If she does it again, point that out. After the help you have given her, this is a slap in the face, IMO. I'd be angry, too.

smile123 · Apr 6, 2005

Thanks everyone.
I had a talk with her this afternoon. I told her that I really liked her and it would be nice if we continued on the path together...but that she needs to study much much harder and to do so on her own. I said I didn't mind it if she had questions she wanted to bounce off me...or even if she needed explanations...but that I don't have the time or the energy ( BOY is that true HA HA) to pull her along anymore or spend oodles of time trying to explain things that had she just paid attention in class- she'd know. She was kind of upset- basically said she knows she won't get into II at this point unless some kind of " miracle happens" ( that miracle, would be studying!). I told her I was sorry and that even if she had to repeat I over the summer...if she took II in the fall we'd still be in the same Spring nursing class SHOULD she be accepted. I told her I really didn't want to be mean...but that she isn't going to get in going this way...because it just gets harder and MORE time consuming. I suggested she take I over again by itself w/no other courses.
What makes me angry is that she kept insinuating that it's "easier" for me because I don't have any other classes right now. Maybe not, but I have 2 kids and a job and that itself is a LOT of work...and it's not any easier for me then when I had multiple classes...because none of THOSE classes even came close to the amount of time I have had to put towards A+P I. The exact amount if not MORE I will have to put into A+P II over the summer..which is shorter...so MORE info to learn in a shorter time.
Well, I wish her well. THANKS EVERYONE!

Hi BoonersMom,

I'm very glad you had the courage to talk to her and set the boundaries. Just from your posts, I know you really like to help people out, which is admirable. It takes more courage (or backbone) to let her know you were not going to bail her out or allow her to use you as a crutch. Tough love, I know, but it's necessary.

I can understand you feeling angry about her comment that it was "easier" because you didn't have additional classes. Well, working fulltime, raising 2 kids, and attending to all your other priorities take time! So she was being very insensitive and quite frankly, trying to make you feel bad. Guilt trips do not work if you recognize that's what she was doing to you!

Guess what? Life is not fair. People have choices to make. If she chose to take 3 classes and slough off in one of them, that's her decision. If she fails, it's a result of her efforts and is NOT a reflection upon you. It is NOT up to you to "save" her. She needs to learn that lesson. Kudos to you for setting expectations and talking to her!

Hugs to you!

Smile123

Silicone · Apr 7, 2005

What makes me angry is that she kept insinuating that it's "easier" for me because I don't have any other classes right now.

She made the choice to take other classes.

Doesn't matter why, it was still her choice.

It is also her choice not to do whatever is necessary to get a good grade in

this particular class (dropping the other classes or studying more.)

It's also her choice to use you as a convenient excuse.

Your choice is to make yourself top priority.

Because nurses can't take care of patients very well if

they don't take care of themselves first. It's a good

lesson to learn.

Samantha

KrisRNwannabe · Apr 7, 2005

Booners,

Sometimes in school you make friends that bring out the best in you and sometimes you make friends that later on suck the life out of you. You are going to school for you and know when else. Believe i have had "friends" that were jealous of my accomplishments. I am not going to feel bad about getting good grades. Your friend obviously has more important things to do than worry about school. I understand that you are not big on study groups. i don't much like them either. usually people start chatting and that is the end of studying. I don't mind getting together before a test though and quizing one another, I just don't want it to be my whole means of studying. Sometimes it is hard to cut people off but it has to be done. I would suggest not taking A&P online. Sometimes with online classes people just tend to go through the motions to get the stuff done and don't really "learn" the material. Tell your friend if she wants to take it online to go ahead but you are not. I would explain to your friend that school is very important to you and that you don't need any distractions. Nursing school is very difficult and you need people around you that have the same goals and desires. the distance thing works for me. I know you are lab partners but try and stick to the lab stuff. don't try and start up any personal conversations. and if she does, avoid it and stick to the lab stuff. I hope things work out for you. just concentrate on getting into nursing school right now

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Apr 7, 2005

What makes me angry is that she kept insinuating that it's "easier" for me because I don't have any other classes right now.

What a rotten thing to say! And you say she's a "friend." Hmmm.

smile123 · Apr 7, 2005

She made the choice to take other classes.
Doesn't matter why, it was still her choice.
It is also her choice not to do whatever is necessary to get a good grade in
this particular class (dropping the other classes or studying more.)
It's also her choice to use you as a convenient excuse.
Your choice is to make yourself top priority.
Because nurses can't take care of patients very well if
they don't take care of themselves first. It's a good
lesson to learn.
Samantha

Excellent points Samantha! You definitely need to take care of yourself first! I think in the interest of time, it may make sense for you to take A&P online. I know you had issues about your schedule in the fall and not being able to complete your pre-reqs successfully if you had too large a load. I took A&P I and II through regular classes; it was really helpful when we had to look at the bones, nerves and muscles on human models in lab. I'm not sure how they would do this on line, but if the nursing schools in your area take online A&P, I say go for it.

Smile123