Licensed Nurse or Vet Nurse (tech)

[Greyson]

Interesting Story to share. I had a problem with a veterinarian who would referred to his staff as nurses. This struck me as odd, especially with the level of care they were being allowed to perform...at their homes. I spoke with the local Veterinary Association and was told that RN cannot be used by anyone unless the are licensed to their states codes. Vet tech shouldn't be referred as nurse, but the Nursing Board really doesn't do anything about it. Well, i checked with the Nursing Board. Their response was ABSOLUTELY not. It is against the law, it is not tolerated and it needs to be reported if ever encountered. Needless to say, the vet received a Cease and Desist letter shortly from the Nursing Board.

[PERSEPHONE01]

By "under the supervision of" as a Vet Tech or an RN I do not mean they are our direct supervisors, I mean that we are unable to perform a function, such as giving medications or performing a treatment, that has not been first presribed or ordered by an MD (NP, dentist, DO etc) or Vet. We are under the direct supervision of our charge nurses, unit directors, etc.

[Greyson]

By "under the supervision of" as a Vet Tech or an RN I do not mean they are our direct supervisors, I mean that we are unable to perform a function, such as giving medications or performing a treatment, that has not been first presribed or ordered by an MD (NP, dentist, DO etc) or Vet. We are under the direct supervision of our charge nurses, unit directors, etc.

I am not entirely sure that I agree with that fully. On paper, yes everyone is under supervision but in a medical environment it is completely acceptable for RN to be the only professionals present any time of day. while doctor are off doing rounds, procedures etc. At a Vet clinic, a veterinarian's presence is crucial. For example if I left my dog for the day for a teeth cleaning and I paid $500. The expectation for the average person is the sedation/anesthesia/cleaning is done by the doctor. that is not putting down anyone just a possible perception of the public. Of course realistically thats not possible and even though perfectly capable, would clients be accepting of a vet tech doing all those task with minimal involvement from the Vet; would they feel like they didnt get their money's worth. And for those who had no problem at all, isnt it still the expectation that there must be a Vet literally and physically present at all times. Not on call or absent in any way. Thats a huge difference from RNs

[Greyson]

This is going to sound really cruel....

If someones biggest worry in life is your vet calling his vet techs "nurses", you need to get some hobbies and a life, as well as read some news so you will realize that there are far more serious things in this world that you should worry about. BTW here is the dictionary definition of a nurse (notice the definition has nothing written demanding that it should only be used with someone caring only for people):

nurse 1 |nərs|nouna person trained to care for the sick or infirm, esp. in a hospital.* dated a person employed or trained to take charge of young children: her mother's old nurse.* archaic a wet nurse.* [ often as modifier ] Forestry a tree or crop planted as a shelter to others.* Entomology a worker bee, ant, or other social insect, caring for a young brood.

"New Oxford American Dictionary"

HPRN

why is it so offensive for a group of intelligent people to come together and politely debate a topic? There has been no name calling or insulting and if anything we have learned more about each others profession than expected. I think that is pretty cool. My biggest worry is not who is called what, its how we are unable or unwilling to listen to one another an interact with respect toward someone with differenct views or give someone the opportunity to share themselve before judging.

[PERSEPHONE01]

The Vet is in the building at all times but is not present for every procedure. I will use an example of

a dental cleaning sense you mentioned it above.

Prior to a dental procedure a pet would recieve a physical exam by a Vet and then while the Vet is seeing other pets or working on paper work, a Vet Tech would place an IV line, calculate the required pre sedation needed then administer it. With the help of other Vet Techs or Vet Assistants

they would then take the pt back once pre sedation has taken effect and the VT would intubate,

place the pt under general anesthesia then, while monitoring vital signs, the VT would perform the

dental cleaning. Once completed the Vet would come in and check the teeth and remove any that need removed. Once cleared the VT would then stop the anesthesia and remain with the pet until they have woken up well enough to be extubated and then placed in a warm, quiet cage to

recover. The same goes for surgical procedures...the Vet may only be present to do the incision,

the surgical procedure and suturing, then be gone onto the next procedure.

Do you feel that in the people world that pt's feel they do not "recieve their moneys worth"

if everything is not performed directly by an MD?

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Seems like something didn't go right & this is your way to get back at the vet. Honestly, I couldn't care less if my vet called his vet techs or vet assistants nurses. It only bothers me if people call CNAs or MAs nurses.

As long as they take care of my pets they can call themselves whatever they please.

I'm sorry if anything happened to your pet but to start a war with your vet is just ridiculous. If you don't like how he handles his business, don't give him yours.

[Greyson]

The Vet is in the building at all times but is not present for every procedure. I will use an example of

a dental cleaning sense you mentioned it above.

Prior to a dental procedure a pet would recieve a physical exam by a Vet and then while the Vet is seeing other pets or working on paper work, a Vet Tech would place an IV line, calculate the required pre sedation needed then administer it. With the help of other Vet Techs or Vet Assistants

they would then take the pt back once pre sedation has taken effect and the VT would intubate,

place the pt under general anesthesia then, while monitoring vital signs, the VT would perform the

dental cleaning. Once completed the Vet would come in and check the teeth and remove any that need removed. Once cleared the VT would then stop the anesthesia and remain with the pet until they have woken up well enough to be extubated and then placed in a warm, quiet cage to

recover. The same goes for surgical procedures...the Vet may only be present to do the incision,

the surgical procedure and suturing, then be gone onto the next procedure.

Do you feel that in the people world that pt's feel they do not "recieve their moneys worth"

if everything is not performed directly by an MD?[/quote

Read carefully, i wasnt implying people were not getting their money's worth, I was making the point that average person is unaware of the level of involvement of each person. I will be honest, i actually did believe a vet did performed anesthesia and the dental procedure. Im fortunate that my State Administrative Code defines Veterinarian supervision clearly and breaks it into three categories: general, direct, and immediate. I am not sure if it is the same for RN, but an RVT specifically works under the veterinarians license and the Code completely holds the vet responsible for the non-veterinarian. that may be a difference as well. If there is misconduct of an RN they are the ones disciplined where as it would be the veterinarian who is held responsible in the case of an RVT

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Well then you'd be pretty shocked at what we've done to our animals.

I'm not a vet or vet tech, but we have a hefty list of animals & have done a lot of things out here to help them.

I just can't help but laugh at your concerning yourself at the vet techs being called nurses. So should I become a vet tech because of what we do to help our animals?

[Paws2people]

Just want to clarify what the previous poster said - an RN does not need to be under the supervision of an MD. An MA, yes. But not an RN.

Ah, but an RN does follow the doctor's orders...

[ComeTogether, LPN]

I've always assumed that they weren't actual nurses, since they are caring for cats and dogs, and not humans. In this situation, in this setting, I don't see why it would be a problem. It is a way to distinguish between the Doctor and the "not doctor".

To me, it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

[Paws2people]

I've always assumed that they weren't actual nurses, since they are caring for cats and dogs, and not humans. In this situation, in this setting, I don't see why it would be a problem. It is a way to distinguish between the Doctor and the "not doctor".

To me, it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

Which is why in other countries, Australia for example, LVT's are referred to as NURSES.

The OP is clearly annoyed at their experience with the vet and this is the way to retaliate.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Ah, but an RN does follow the doctor's orders...

Sometimes, not always. I work in an OB/Gyn clinic. There are no doctors there.

My understanding is in that some states, RNs can also work independently (such as in home health or other types of health visits). And programs like Nurse-Family Partnership - as far as I know, they do not have physicians who oversee the program and the nurses.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

When I worked private duty, corrections or in a nursing home there is not always a doctor there. Well, private duty there is NEVER doctor. Granted I'm an LVN & I work under the RNs license. But say an RN was working private duty, home health, corrections or in a nursing home; there is not a doctor there. Those places are not like hospitals where you can page or call a doctor & they will be there in minutes.