It is particularly troubling that President John Sweeney has only now issued a statement about the growing tension between CNA and SEIU. While Sweeney is quick to accuse the SEIU of wrongdoing at the recent Labor Notes conference, where was his public statement condemning the grotesque behavior of CNA in Ohio?
Unlike the Labor Notes gathering where the facts remain highly disputed, CNA actions in Ohio are without disagreement or debate. There is no question that their union-busting actions prevented as many of 8,000 nurses and other healthcare workers from getting a voice on job! That remains the true injustice and has yet to prompt a public condemnation from President Sweeney and the AFL-CIO. It is ridiculous to suggest that the CNA leadership and their gangs are the victims in this battle. If an apology is due, it must come from Rose Ann DeMoro and the CNA to the thousands of workers that have been silenced by these repulsive union-busting campaigns.
-Norma Amsterdam, RN and Labor Leader, SEIU member
why in this day and age is it so wrong for nurses to have a union. autoworkers have a union. operators have a union. seiu is crap. can't believe that there is a michigan hospital associated with that union.
Again, for the hundredth time because the EMPLOYER filed for the election no other union could be on the ballot!
I wonder why it is taking SEIU so long to add non-RN staff bargaining units at CHP Lorain?
Didn't RN's vote in SEIU 10 years ago? I would think the others would jump on after all the "wonderful' things that the union was doing for nurses. CHP Lorain has not had a wall to wall union that SEIU touts (they may have some additional now - I am not aware of the result of the ruling regarding the contested election from December where SEIU lost the bargaining units representing other hospital staff)
What are the med/surg ratio's at CHP Lorain? I have heard from SEIU nurse leaders at that hospital that staffing is still unsafe and numbers terrible.
Again, for the hundredth time because the EMPLOYER filed for the election no other union could be on the ballot!
I wonder why it is taking SEIU so long to add non-RN staff bargaining units at CHP Lorain?
Didn't RN's vote in SEIU 10 years ago? I would think the others would jump on after all the "wonderful' things that the union was doing for nurses. CHP Lorain has not had a wall to wall union that SEIU touts (they may have some additional now - I am not aware of the result of the ruling regarding the contested election from December where SEIU lost the bargaining units representing other hospital staff)
What are the med/surg ratio's at CHP Lorain? I have heard from SEIU nurse leaders at that hospital that staffing is still unsafe and numbers terrible.
And, AGAIN, for the hundredth time, CNA/NNOC could have been on A BALLOT if they had done the legwork....and, they didn't!
We DID vote SEIU in 10 years ago....and, we have DOUBLED our union membership at our hospital. There is NO contested election remaining from December....that was settled and SEIU prevailed.
Our working conditions have VASTLY improved in the 10 years we've been with SEIU. 10 years ago, we had no say in staffing, systems, benefits, etc. We do now. 10 years ago, we did what we were mandated, regardless of patient and staff safety. Now, we have contract language to deal with these situations. We are working diligently to improve staffing ratios and we're making progress....any change in staffing is a unilateral change in working conditions and is subject to scrutiny. We have committees in place to address staffing and nursing issues. 10 years ago, we didn't. My salary has almost doubled in 10 years, and my pay is not subject to the whims of management, as it was 10 years ago. I AM an SEIU nurse leader at that hospital, and I am giving you the facts.
These changes are the result of OUR hard work and we are very proud of our WONDERFUL accomplishments. Further, we know this is just the beginning and we have within our power the wherewithal to accomplish much more. That's why we want ALL of our fellow CHP employees under the SEIU umbrella so that we can share with all of them our WONDERFuL achievements. We've raised the standard for pay and benefits in our area. We've seen the CNA/NNOC agenda in action and we're not impressed, but, rather, grateful we aren't represented by them.
Legwork is irrelevant when the boss files for the election- cards or no cards NNOC could not appear on the ballot. That's the problem - company chooses the union so NNOC cannot be on the ballot (or anyone else for that matter).
I spoke with a hospital painter who was organizing with another union in Springfield- did anyone ask him how he felt about SEIU? I did- he said "this deal stinks".
So after 10 years some other staff have decided to join SEIU?
I ask again what are the staffing ratio's on Med Surg?
I do not doubt that things are better for nurses at CHP Lorain after organizing with SEIU. I also know for a fact that many nurses there support NNOC Ohio's Hospital Patient Protection Act and still have major complaints about staffing.
OK HobbesRN , lets accept your explanation of why management applied for the vote ,which boils down to CHP Management gambled that the SEIU would not have enough support to win a vote for representation .
I also believe RN Power Ohio statement that due to the manner in which the vote was called ,CNA/NNOC could not be put on the vote .
I understand that after up to 10 years of organizing , SEIU may have a lot invested ( emotionally , materially and financially) in representing CHP employee's , that said they should be confident in their foundations and go on with the vote , even with the usurpers ( in your view ) of CNA/NNOC on the vote .
Laboring your analogy because the CNA/NNOC have not done any leg work , whilst the SEIU has done a lot of leg work , you should be fitter and able to run the CNA/NNOC into the ground and win representation for the employees through SEIU .
Filing for a vote would be your best answer to both CHP and CNA/NNOC , channel your obvious anger into renewed vigor to unionize your facilities , rather than an ongoing intericine struggle with other members of the labor movement .At this point it really doesn't matter who did what ,to whom and when , get over it , refocus upon your objective . I'm sure CHP management couldn't be happier , than now ,standing on the sidelines watching you destroy ,all you have achieved up to now
OK HobbesRN , lets accept your explanation of why management applied for the vote ,which boils down to CHP Management gambled that the SEIU would not have enough support to win a vote for representation .
I also believe RN Power Ohio statement that due to the manner in which the vote was called ,CNA/NNOC could not be put on the vote .
I understand that after up to 10 years of organizing , SEIU may have a lot invested ( emotionally , materially and financially) in representing CHP employee's , that said they should be confident in their foundations and go on with the vote , even with the usurpers ( in your view ) of CNA/NNOC on the vote .
Laboring your analogy because the CNA/NNOC have not done any leg work , whilst the SEIU has done a lot of leg work , you should be fitter and able to run the CNA/NNOC into the ground and win representation for the employees through SEIU .
Filing for a vote would be your best answer to both CHP and CNA/NNOC , channel your obvious anger into renewed vigor to unionize your facilities , rather than an ongoing intericine struggle with other members of the labor movement .At this point it really doesn't matter who did what ,to whom and when , get over it , refocus upon your objective . I'm sure CHP management couldn't be happier , than now ,standing on the sidelines watching you destroy ,all you have achieved up to now
Please---SEIU didn't start this 'intercine struggle with other members of the labor movement' in Ohio. You're preaching to the choir by stating the obvious need to focus on our objective---we were very focused on that objective until CNA/NNOC provoked all this by their union-busting activities. Any attempt to justify or rationalize their behavior is just that--justifications and rationalizations.
All I know is that reading all the posts over the years about problems that the nursing profession has, not once, not once--let me repeat that for emphasis--not once has anyone suggested that we team up with the SEIU to resolve these problems.
However, I have heard of the safe staffing laws and how CNA fought those who would've killed that bill. We cheered them on from the sidelines. When they won, some moved to CA and went back to the bedside.
For the first time, nurses had the hope of getting the major issues settled that were driving nurses from the bedside.
I would rather have no union that one that simply takes my money and leaves me with the same problems that I would've had if there was no union. I'd rather not have a union that lumps me in with hotel maids and janitors.
Frankly at this point both sides are as bad as each other , some form of agreement , or at least accomodation needs to occur between both sides , in order for some normality to return .If not with the accusations and actions of both sides , any prospective member will be turned off unionization . Mind you borrowing from the rationalization heard re. the democratic primaries , maybe the struggle between the two unions , shows how hard they can fight , if they turn that energy against their employers it would be a good thing .
Unfortunately both sides are behaving like a terrier , not being willing to let go of the bone of contention . Even if one side gave up the bone , the other would continue to shake it .
maybe the struggle between the two unions , shows how hard they can fight , if they turn that energy against their employers it would be a good thing .
.
Exactly. Nurses need a union that will champion their best interests, not one that will catfight and bicker over whose territory is whose.
Which, IMO, is exactly what's happening on this thread.
SEIU doesn't want CNA, CNA doesn't want SEIU. And what the nurses really want -- and need -- is starting to become the side issue instead of the point of the argument.
Legwork is irrelevant when the boss files for the election- cards or no cards NNOC could not appear on the ballot. That's the problem - company chooses the union so NNOC cannot be on the ballot (or anyone else for that matter).
I spoke with a hospital painter who was organizing with another union in Springfield- did anyone ask him how he felt about SEIU? I did- he said "this deal stinks".
So after 10 years some other staff have decided to join SEIU?
I ask again what are the staffing ratio's on Med Surg?
I do not doubt that things are better for nurses at CHP Lorain after organizing with SEIU. I also know for a fact that many nurses there support NNOC Ohio's Hospital Patient Protection Act and still have major complaints about staffing.
As a labor organizer, you know that not everyone is going to be thrilled with every decision, organization, situation....come on! I can name any number of instances of dissatisfaction with CNA/NNOC tactics as verbalized on any number of blogs. One person, painter, nurse or otherwise, doesn't make or break a campaign. Nor are sarcastic comments about about other staff joining the union constructive in our struggle to improve the healthcare system in this country.
Several of the nurses I work with came to our hospital because of our union and because they realized it afforded them a say in their conditions of employment. Our union has actually been a recruiting tool.
Healthcare in this country is at a crisis now. CNA/NNOC and SEIU share common interests, which, to me, made CNA's union-busting activity in Ohio even more appalling.
Staffing is an issue not exclusive to our hospital--we all are aware of the nursing shortage in this country. Nurses can make or break a patient's perception of the healthcare institution. And, rumor has it, medicare reimbursement is going to be based on patient satisfaction. Only a couple other hospitals in our northeast Ohio area are represented by collective bargaining--ONA specifically. CNA/NNOC has no bargaining units in Ohio (although they tout that they have members who've paid a $30 fee to join!-I'm certain they do).
A few weeks ago, the Cleveland Plain Dealer published an less than complimentary article about nursing and patient satisfaction a few weeks ago. There is also a link 'patient's perspectives on hospital stays' on that page.
If you take the time to check it out, you'll notice that the only California hospital listed in the article fell short of the national average on patient satisfaction--along with the world-renowned Cleveland Clinic System. If you click on the link for patient's perspectives, which delineates northeast Ohio hospitals, you'll notice that the only hospital in the NE Ohio area that surpassed the national average for patient satisfaction in all areas was the SEIU-represented CHP hospital in Lorain.
Sure, our staffing is less than ideal---most hospitals suffer the from same situation, nursing shortage and all. But, ours is better than most. Because we have a union, we have tools to address these issues. Our staffing ratios are not carved in stone and are the subject of work being done by our Staffing Advisory Committee. They are increasing staffing now, because of the work we've done--thus, the staffing matrix is changing.
I find this in-fighting alarming--we should be working together to improve conditions for ourselves and our patients. One of my friends who heads a nursing program has often lamented how 'nursing eats its young'. Sadly, I don't think nursing limits its diet to its 'young'.
I was thinking a lot about this after my post last night (all night). It is very frustrating that indeed we are not working together.
It would be nice to say we can agree to disagree about the theory of the best way to orgsanize workers. At Labor Notes there was a forum for debate set up about this exact issue. For certain reasons it was not to be...
But it is difficult for an organization like CNA/NNOC to say you go on with your methods and we will go on with ours when we can easily visualize the outcome.
It is no secret that SEIU has made concessions in favor of the employer (I think we can all agree this is fact especially on the West Coast). SEIU views this as a good way to offer unionization to people who otherwise would not have a union.
However, CNA/NNOC does not believe in making those concessions even if it means less unionized workers or waiting longer to get to the number needed for a vote. Part of the reason we believe this is because this organization represents soley RN's - who have a duty to maintain the safety of patients. When people are dying there can be no compromise. This is my personal belief and the reason I chose CNA/NNOC.
So now, imagine that you are the employer. You have a choice you can pick up the phone and call SEIU, file for the election yourself and at the very least muck up the waters for both sides and prevent the union you do not prefer from appearing on the ballot. No showing of support necessary.
This will become even easier if the RJ petition becomes an accepted rule change.
The differences between our two unions are fundamental and primarily theoretical. However, when each theory is applied it is difficult for each side to swallow because we believe in the ideals of each of our organizations deeply.
I was thinking a lot about this after my post last night (all night). It is very frustrating that indeed we are not working together.
It would be nice to say we can agree to disagree about the theory of the best way to orgsanize workers. At Labor Notes there was a forum for debate set up about this exact issue. For certain reasons it was not to be...
But it is difficult for an organization like CNA/NNOC to say you go on with your methods and we will go on with ours when we can easily visualize the outcome.
It is no secret that SEIU has made concessions in favor of the employer (I think we can all agree this is fact especially on the West Coast). SEIU views this as a good way to offer unionization to people who otherwise would not have a union.
However, CNA/NNOC does not believe in making those concessions even if it means less unionized workers or waiting longer to get to the number needed for a vote. Part of the reason we believe this is because this organization represents soley RN's - who have a duty to maintain the safety of patients. When people are dying there can be no compromise. This is my personal belief and the reason I chose CNA/NNOC.
So now, imagine that you are the employer. You have a choice you can pick up the phone and call SEIU, file for the election yourself and at the very least muck up the waters for both sides and prevent the union you do not prefer from appearing on the ballot. No showing of support necessary.
This will become even easier if the RJ petition becomes an accepted rule change.
The differences between our two unions are fundamental and primarily theoretical. However, when each theory is applied it is difficult for each side to swallow because we believe in the ideals of each of our organizations deeply.
I think there are a lot of issues that we see as the same. And, I'm not really clear on SEIU in California--I believe there is even some issues within the organization itself which has caused some rifts. Rumor has it that United Healthcare West was implicit in the raid on the Ohio election. That would be ironic--that an SEIU local was in cahoots with CNA all along??
But, from the perspective of a CHP RN, member of SEIU, I recognize that we (employees of CHP) can do so much more if we're all organized under one umbrella. In our dealings with CHP, we have conceded NOTHING in favor of management--On the contrary, ours has been a very contentious relationship- hard-fought over the years. That's one of the reasons it's been so difficult and anger-provoking to read these blogs with the accusations flying that SEIU is in bed with CHP. My experience has been real--not something I read--and that has not at all been the circumstance with us.
We all want safe staffing levels, affordable or universal healthcare for all, education opportunities abound, a retirement we can live on, and so on--I'm thinking we have more in common than not. Obviously, we feel very strongly about these issues and are active in our perspective organizations. These are issues go far beyond the politics of our organizations--hopefully, we can rise above this and actually accomplish something!
.thumb.jpg.6eeb2c01c27cfd151d706238b7f6d6b7.jpg){kind=small}
RN1982
3,362 Posts
why in this day and age is it so wrong for nurses to have a union. autoworkers have a union. operators have a union. seiu is crap. can't believe that there is a michigan hospital associated with that union.