Know it all scrub techs

ebear, BSN, RN · Mar 19, 2008

rbs105, This is an age old problem in most O.R.s., especially with very experienced techs who have been there for ages. A lot of them tend to overstep their boundaries. Unfortunately, you will have to tell them firmly and loudly to BACK OFF, with a certain glare in your eye!! I'm very surprised that the surgeons involved (who don't "know how to suture") have not ripped these techs a new one! Where I come from, that would last about 10 seconds. Stand your ground when they are out of line. After a few times of this, it will get VERY easy for you to do. If they think you're a witch--so what?? You will graduate to being known as the nurse one doesn't screw with..and that's a badge of honor in the O.R. As far as them not wanting you to learn to scrub---many poots upon 'em! You're infringing upon their domain and they probably don't like it very much. Oh well, they can get over it... Now, scoot along!:chrs:

ebear

ebear, BSN, RN · Mar 19, 2008

....Oh, and how do they suggest you "hook up suction"??? One hasn't lived until they get the ebear "evil eye"!!! I would say, "Why don't you just worry about hooking up your end and I'll hook up mine". That's ridiculous. I worked in the O.R. for over 25 yrs and was a manager for many of those years (just recently resigned and working another area altogether). Just be assertive and cut to the chase.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Mar 19, 2008

I've been where you are now, and it's not fun. Any OR is going to have people that are just plain obnoxious, no matter what their job role. I agree with ebear that you just have to stand your ground and try not to let them see they are getting to you. Most bullies back down once you give it back to them.

Some people are just the jealous, insecure sort and there are plenty of nurses like this too. The ones who don't scrub don't like the ones who can, if you're going back for your BSN or MSN, they make fun of you etc etc etc. It's your career and they should keep their nose out of it.

They'll move on to someone else eventually. Good luck, and stay strong! :nurse:

Scrubby · Mar 19, 2008

I agree with ebear and witchy, you need to put them in their place. It's not their job to tell the surgeons how to suture, it's not their job to tell you how to run a theatre and telling yelling at someone who is not qualified to start a procedure IMHO should be an incident report.

It sounds to me like these techs really don't have any concept of teamwork and that they have been getting away with this for too long. I've worked with so many nurses like this who when scrubbed suddenly become Mr or Mrs Hyde and start bossing people around and yell at their coworkers. Sometimes a quiet reminder for them to behave themselves works, some simply don't listen because they are too set in their ways.

rbs105, ADN, MSN, RN · Mar 19, 2008

Thank you all-

I think the best way to describe it is, I work in a place that is like the parent who is afraid to discipline their child, so the child gets away with everything. There are many things that nurses, techs, and doctors get away with that they shouldn't (repeated call-offs, refusing to come in when on call, etc) and it has created an atmosphere. They are so understaffed, there is not much they will do as far as disicipline because a body is a body and that is what they need. I agree, they shouldn't get away w/yelling at a doctor (it's usually the residents). I had the privilege of doing temporary work at another hospital and they were all very nice, respectful of one another and each had their place and their job. It made a much better team environment and it was nice for me to get that exposure. They asked if I was interested in working there, and it was appealing, but I am a blood and guts, smashing thru the door trauma type of person so I suppose it will keep me there. Just had to gripe though...thanks!!

rbs105

ShariDCST · Mar 19, 2008

As a CST, I am appalled at the behavior you relate. Secondly, I am sad that such behavior is allowed to proliferate, and would like to offer my personal apology for their egotistical tirades and inappropriate actions. It saddens me to hear about Techs like these - it makes it rough on the rest of us who know our jobs, our places in the grand scheme of things, and work hard to keep things going smoothly via good teamwork. IF I am asked my opinion or about my knowledge on a certain issue, especially be a new staff member, be it RN, CST, or even a new resident/intern, I will offer information if I am sure of it. I would never presume to be the person capable of instructing surgeons on how to suture! That's completely inappropriate, should in no way be tolerated, and could technically be addressed through an incident report.

It sounds like it's time to follow the rest of the advice given, which I agree wholeheartedly with - stand your ground and do it as often as necessary. There is no appropriate circumstance where ST's/CST's should be butting in and trying to run the room, no matter how long they have been there. Apparently they have no people skills, and are not about to start learning any. Teamwork is a must in the OR for it to function effectively and well, and it sounds like there is none to be had.

I have had the misfortune to have worked with a couple of Techs who have been in the same place for donkey's years, and think they know all there is to know to run an OR. Some claim to have been allowed to circulate cases "back in the old days." Be that as it may, this is not "the old days" anymore, and it's time to get off the high horse, get rid of the bitterness and start focusing in on the reason we are all there to begin with - and that is the patient! Everyone has a part to play, and everything works much better when we do just that! If I'd wanted to be a nurse, I would be. But I don't, and I have my job to do, which I love.

I am also sorry to hear that management refuses to step up to the plate and actually manage the department. It's a hard row to hoe when the bosses won't be bosses and do their job to make the out-of-control staff toe the line, and run the department smoothly and well. Refusing to come in on a call back should be grounds for immediate termination - that's putting patients in danger, which should not be tolerated for any reason other than extreme illness or personal death!

As for the surgeons getting away with anything, unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done, unless it comes down to putting patients' lives in danger, or abusing staff, in which case they can be, and have been, written up and taken to the Medical Staff board. I've seen that happen, and I've been part of a couple of those incidents, as a witness. One particularly abusive individual was eventually denied privileges to return to that facility because of his heinous behavior.

Anyway - I wish you luck in dealing with your particular situation - it must be very frustrating for you, and nothing turns morning into a nightmare faster than waking up to the realization that you must go to work to face another day with such unpleasant individuals. Stick to your guns though - eventually, it'll pay off.

ORTech2RN · Mar 19, 2008

I'm an OR Tech, and I cannot stand these types. RN's are a necessity in the OR, regardless of how experienced a tech is. I agree with everyone here, you will have to put your foot down and assert some authority. If I'm correct, the tech is working under your license..so you need not take any abuse off these jerks. As for a Tech doing the circulating..it's fine to help, and I've done plenty to help my circulator...help prep, put foleys in, positioning. LOL..I dare a know it all tech question me when I get out of nursing school..because I can say that I've worked on both sides of the fence.

NabiRN, BSN, RN · Mar 25, 2008

I have been a certified surgical technologist for four years. I also just passed the NCLEX and hope to land a nursing job in the OR.

There are many know it all surgical technologists in the OR (including myself). During my 2nd year as a scrub, I questioned the positioning of a new resident for a case that I have scrubbed many times. The nurse pulled me aside and said to me firmly that I should never do that again. She didn't start a fight with me nor did she use her power as the circulator to tell me off. I forgot what words she used but she was very professional. Since then, I only offer my suggestion when I was asked. I continue to work well with this circulator.

Now it is my turn to learn how to work with know it all scrubs.

4shanmill · Mar 25, 2008

I was a tech for about five years before I got my degree. I have to say I can see both sides of the story. 1st off it sounds as if it might not be handled approperatly by the techs, but even if that is the case you should still be the bigger person in the room. Never degrade or demorilize any person in the room. talk with them about there behavior after the case, to the side. Who knows you might be the one that is in the wrong. Maybe you are still feeling a little in secure. It does take a good year to be comfortable in the OR, especially with the types of cases you do. (i.e trauma)

openheartmary · Mar 25, 2008

I agree with ebear, witchy and scrubby. Those two techs sure do make for a miserable work environment. You keep standing your ground! Do not sink to their level. You are a professional. Have you reported these incidents to your Charge Nurse/Supervisor or Director? At the very least incident reports need to be utilized. It's your right to work in a "safe" environment. Do your peers also have trouble with these particular techs?

Continue to learn everything you can to expand your skills.

Keep being your patient's advocate. That's tops in my book!

rbs105, ADN, MSN, RN · Mar 25, 2008

4shanmill-

I am not trying to 'tech bash'. Please note that I stated I am thankful for their knowledge and there are many times I rely on their help. However, you will find as you learn the job of circulator, there are ways to appropriately and professionally fix a problem, offer a suggestion or correct something within your scope of practice. It is not the tech's job to instruct the doctor or the nurse on when to start a procedure and that was my main point of frustration. I have nicely been nudged by a tech who noticed something that I hadn't so that I could point it out, and I have also been with techs who have nicely pointed it out themselves. i have also been in rooms where the tech argued everything I did, and tried to take charge over everything. Maybe that is insecurity???

The bottom line is professionalism, scope of practice and most importantly, the patient. Being argumentative, and know it all-even if you DO know it all-is unhelpful, unprofessional and makes it a real trick to get it done. Yes, there is still alot I don't know and doing trauma there is alot I am not totally knowledgeable about and still nervous-but after doing this for 2 years, believe it or not, there are some things that I actually do know and my frustration is working with someone who feels that just because they have been there so many more years that they can do their job and mine! I think that was the main reason for my post...as you can see I'm not the only one who feels that way.

rbs105