Kentucky Board KARE

JB C said:

There is zero I'm saying about the BON. I've stated nothing untruthful but only facts and againmy brother is an attorney and I more than welcome the challenge. Repercussions taken by any board based on a nurse stating truth is unlawful.

How would they identify us?

Healer555 said:

How would they identify us?

They can't identify anyone and even if they did, what can they do? Punish someone for making honest statements? That's illegal and they no better than to try and take repercussions from a message board because legally, that would be a disaster for them. They aren't that stupid. Now if someone is making outlandish claims or statements that are simply false and doing so in an attempt to defame the board then that's a problem. But if making honest statements and giving honest opinions, that's called the First Amendment of the US Constitution. 

casinjth2 said:

You all have got to STOP posting personal comments about the BON in here. They are monitoring every single word you say on here and will use it against you. Doesn't matter how positive you towards your own situation or others, they will find that one negative thing you said and hold it over your head if need be. If you want to vent your frustrations, do it through personal messages or outside of the forum. Trust me. 

I don't think anyone is bashing them or being negative. I simply asked for opinions on people who have personally been in my situation. This is a big decision and a big deal. I want to make the best decision I can. Although these are consequences of my own making I still want to decide correctly for myself. I told my nurse investigator I would be reaching out to people to get opinions, and she highly encouraged it. She said yes, absolutely. Talk to someone who's in or or has done it. You have 15 days to decide. I don't think anyone has done anything wrong but give very helpful information and opinions which I'm grateful for. So please everyone keep them coming. At this point I'm leaning to taking the KARE program versus the 4 year probation

JB C said:

They can't identify anyone and even if they did, what can they do? Punish someone for making honest statements? That's illegal and they no better than to try and take repercussions from a message board because legally, that would be a disaster for them. They aren't that stupid. Now if someone is making outlandish claims or statements that are simply false and doing so in an attempt to defame the board then that's a problem. But if making honest statements and giving honest opinions, that's called the First Amendment of the US Constitution. 

Right. I can't remember it was here or a different form someone was giving advice on how to be in monitoring and still drink alcohol without getting caught and how they do it all the time.  (Don't do that LOL) I can't imagine why someone would risk putting that information out there even if the likelihood of knowing who posted it was slim. Will not stop sharing my experience openly and honestly so people are not blind sighted. People should know how this system works and how to protect themselves. 

WeDoRecover2024 said:

I don't think anyone is bashing them or being negative. I simply asked for opinions on people who have personally been in my situation. This is a big decision and a big deal. I want to make the best decision I can. Although these are consequences of my own making I still want to decide correctly for myself. I told my nurse investigator I would be reaching out to people to get opinions, and she highly encouraged it. She said yes, absolutely. Talk to someone who's in or or has done it. You have 15 days to decide. I don't think anyone has done anything wrong but give very helpful information and opinions which I'm grateful for. So please everyone keep them coming. At this point I'm leaning to taking the KARE program versus the 4 year probation

Wellll if you go back further we definitely have been sharing very negative experiences. It's worth reading and knowing these experiences are possibilities for you as well. I hope you have a great experience. I had a great case worker. Not everyone was that lucky. Obviously no one here claims to not have made a mistake. However, the practices of the BON are less than professional and if in a court of law would be illegal. My cousin is a criminal lawyer and could not believe the things that are permitted without a governing body to hold them accountable. They have no governing guidelines. It's a whole crap shoot what will happen to you. Your entire life as you know it is left up to the feelings and biases of a handful of people and not a thing you can do about it. We either play their game or find a new career, so here we are. 

Mscoolmug said:

Wellll if you go back further we definitely have been sharing very negative experiences. It's worth reading and knowing these experiences are possibilities for you as well. I hope you have a great experience. I had a great case worker. Not everyone was that lucky. Obviously no one here claims to not have made a mistake. However, the practices of the BON are less than professional and if in a court of law would be illegal. My cousin is a criminal lawyer and could not believe the things that are permitted without a governing body to hold them accountable. They have no governing guidelines. It's a whole crap shoot what will happen to you. Your entire life as you know it is left up to the feelings and biases of a handful of people and not a thing you can do about it. We either play their game or find a new career, so here we are. 

I will have to go through and read some more post. However, I will say this isn't my first experience with them. I was on a reprimand/monitoring, failed a drug screen, surrendered my NP license, went to treatment. And the hoops to jump through to get reinstated plus I'm on a pre trial diversion, have been out of this world, but I busted my *** to put the work in, in all areas and all aspects. At the end of the day they are consequences of my own making so I can't be mad at anyone but me. However, I don't blame them either, they want to be sure we are safe to practice, I get it. I was going to work high. I never did anything illegal in practice like over prescribing, faking charts or visits, or forging documents and scripts. Mine was strictly bc of my personal struggle with substances. I'm lucky I didn't make a mistake or hurt someone. I know the KARE program is going to have its challenges but if I've been doing all the same stuff anyways for a year now I should be okay I would think. In the year I've left treatment to go elsewhere, kicked out of sober living due to false accusations, caught a charge, and still managed to have their support, meet requirements, and get reinstated. I think it just varies on the person and circumstance. I'm just afraid of making the wrong choice 

Elliehenry3172 said:

How do you find a sponsor? Are they from online meetings?

Go to in person and ask for one! I sponsor people in Celebrate Recovery(CR) and AA. I have two sponsors myself and they are my go to for any venting, questions, reflection. If you are serious about your sobriety then do everything to keep it. I have 16 mos in and this is the longest I've had in 10 years. I did everything different this time. I sponsor people, I lead my home group meeting, I'm really plugged in and it's made a difference. I'm about to enter the KARE program myself versus taking a 4 year limitation probation offer. If you have any questions about sponsoring or anything like that, let me know! I can help lead you in the right direction. I also don't do online meetings, I get nothing from them. In person is much better I think 

SoberNP said:

Go to in person and ask for one! I sponsor people in Celebrate Recovery(CR) and AA. I have two sponsors myself and they are my go to for any venting, questions, reflection. If you are serious about your sobriety then do everything to keep it. I have 16 mos in and this is the longest I've had in 10 years. I did everything different this time. I sponsor people, I lead my home group meeting, I'm really plugged in and it's made a difference. I'm about to enter the KARE program myself versus taking a 4 year limitation probation offer. If you have any questions about sponsoring or anything like that, let me know! I can help lead you in the right direction. I also don't do online meetings, I get nothing from them. In person is much better I think 

What's the different between the KARE program and the 4 year limitation ? 

Nursinggirl17 said:

What's the different between the KARE program and the 4 year limitation ? 

Really the requirements are the same, like I can't prescribe controlled substances until I'm off felony pre trial diversion, I can't practice independently, still have to drug screen, go to meetings, meet with my sponsors, have evaluations from my employer etc. but with the KARE program I'm given like an umbrella of protection and it's not a disciplinary action like limitation probation is. So that's why I think I'm going to take the KARE program. Seems like it's the safer option for me 

SoberNP said:

I will have to go through and read some more post. However, I will say this isn't my first experience with them. I was on a reprimand/monitoring, failed a drug screen, surrendered my NP license, went to treatment. And the hoops to jump through to get reinstated plus I'm on a pre trial diversion, have been out of this world, but I busted my *** to put the work in, in all areas and all aspects. At the end of the day they are consequences of my own making so I can't be mad at anyone but me. However, I don't blame them either, they want to be sure we are safe to practice, I get it. I was going to work high. I never did anything illegal in practice like over prescribing, faking charts or visits, or forging documents and scripts. Mine was strictly bc of my personal struggle with substances. I'm lucky I didn't make a mistake or hurt someone. I know the KARE program is going to have its challenges but if I've been doing all the same stuff anyways for a year now I should be okay I would think. In the year I've left treatment to go elsewhere, kicked out of sober living due to false accusations, caught a charge, and still managed to have their support, meet requirements, and get reinstated. I think it just varies on the person and circumstance. I'm just afraid of making the wrong choice 

You're incredibly strong. Recovery is not a straight line, as you already well know. It's a front, back, side to side and then a whole jump spin. Your hard work will definitely see you through. 
The BON is there to protect the public. I get that. I'm for that. Let's do that. The problem with how the entity is set up is there are no outside governing agencies to provide guidelines to disciple. It's like if you are charged a crime and allowing the judge to handle the situation however he wants to and there's nothing anyone can do. The system is set up for an abuse of power. Nurses should be trusted individuals who just inherently do the right thing even when no one's looking, but the fact that people are standing in front of them after making mistakes proves that unfortunately, we're all just human. Humans run off of emotion, mood, biases, ect. Do I think they sit around with malicious in their actions? No, but I do believe they have no system in place to keep them from making too harsh or too lenient of a decision because they feel like it. Again, I don't believe it's intentional but humans be humaning. Even when the best of intentions, we do not always realize how our own personal experiences or mood that day might affect our decision making skills. When I say "the BON" I refer to the system, not the individuals. Handing down decisions that have the potential to ruin someone's life should not be made by an individual or group of individuals. As in law, there needs to be parameters to follow. I am friends with someone who sat on the BON. He said there were many times you could tell someone's mood by the way they would want to go in the final decision to go. Your group of people sitting on the BON are the only ones keeping each other in check. That blows my mind to know end. How is that legal? There's no way to fight the BON systems. Where we sit we can fight for our own case if it was unjust. (Mine was completely unfounded. I was even told information reported was not substantiated. The camera footage of the time showed me doing anything the complaint said I did. The final agreement came down with completely false information. I can either agree with it or as they put it "I'll get you in contact with whom you can surrender your license.” I didn't have money to fight with an attorney. No where close, although after consulting with 2, I was told I did have a case worth fighting. They require a retainer. I had no money to feed my kids so that wasn't even an option. I had to agree to everything they said so I could practice and feed, house and clothe my kids as a single mom. The only thing accurate in my agreement was that I broke policy by prepulling medications and leaving them unattended. I wasn't seen taking anything, tested negative for any substances, passed my SUD eval and no history of any SUD. Yet, I have to agree to diverting medications or surrender my license. I couldn't even enter into KARE. They wouldn't even put it on the table so I could have a clean record since "no substance abuse disorder was substantiated.” Then why am being told they I'm an addict diverting medications and required to drug test? And while I'm on my soap box, physicians are not held to the same standard as nurses. They under reported by employers for diverting, addiction and other very dangerous behaviors. They rarely face any real consequences and get to continue to practice with no negative marks at all on their license. I am glad you had a good experience, however, we can all admit we made mistakes. I certainly did. I did not, however, steal medications. If you look my license up it says I did, though. WITH NO EVIDENCE. Just a hunch from my boss because was easier than finding out what DID happen. I DO know what happened. I usually leave this part out because it makes me shake to even address it.  later found out another nurse came behind me to take the medication for herself. She admitted it after diverting from another facility. The BON said it doesn't matter because I signed an agreement so I did take it, so they wouldn't be relooking at that. I don't even care about the money thrown away for drug tests. I just wanted my reputation back. I can hire a lawyer except I'm still in financial ruin from the entire thing, and I'm lucky to be able to at least juggle my bills and keep my kids from realizing we have no money. They're fed with a roof. And I'll never have the money to clear my name. All because there's no governing entity over the BON. 
 

Mscoolmug said:

You're incredibly strong. Recovery is not a straight line, as you already well know. It's a front, back, side to side and then a whole jump spin. Your hard work will definitely see you through. 
The BON is there to protect the public. I get that. I'm for that. Let's do that. The problem with how the entity is set up is there are no outside governing agencies to provide guidelines to disciple. It's like if you are charged a crime and allowing the judge to handle the situation however he wants to and there's nothing anyone can do. The system is set up for an abuse of power. Nurses should be trusted individuals who just inherently do the right thing even when no one's looking, but the fact that people are standing in front of them after making mistakes proves that unfortunately, we're all just human. Humans run off of emotion, mood, biases, ect. Do I think they sit around with malicious in their actions? No, but I do believe they have no system in place to keep them from making too harsh or too lenient of a decision because they feel like it. Again, I don't believe it's intentional but humans be humaning. Even when the best of intentions, we do not always realize how our own personal experiences or mood that day might affect our decision making skills. When I say "the BON" I refer to the system, not the individuals. Handing down decisions that have the potential to ruin someone's life should not be made by an individual or group of individuals. As in law, there needs to be parameters to follow. I am friends with someone who sat on the BON. He said there were many times you could tell someone's mood by the way they would want to go in the final decision to go. Your group of people sitting on the BON are the only ones keeping each other in check. That blows my mind to know end. How is that legal? There's no way to fight the BON systems. Where we sit we can fight for our own case if it was unjust. (Mine was completely unfounded. I was even told information reported was not substantiated. The camera footage of the time showed me doing anything the complaint said I did. The final agreement came down with completely false information. I can either agree with it or as they put it "I'll get you in contact with whom you can surrender your license.” I didn't have money to fight with an attorney. No where close, although after consulting with 2, I was told I did have a case worth fighting. They require a retainer. I had no money to feed my kids so that wasn't even an option. I had to agree to everything they said so I could practice and feed, house and clothe my kids as a single mom. The only thing accurate in my agreement was that I broke policy by prepulling medications and leaving them unattended. I wasn't seen taking anything, tested negative for any substances, passed my SUD eval and no history of any SUD. Yet, I have to agree to diverting medications or surrender my license. I couldn't even enter into KARE. They wouldn't even put it on the table so I could have a clean record since "no substance abuse disorder was substantiated.” Then why am being told they I'm an addict diverting medications and required to drug test? And while I'm on my soap box, physicians are not held to the same standard as nurses. They under reported by employers for diverting, addiction and other very dangerous behaviors. They rarely face any real consequences and get to continue to practice with no negative marks at all on their license. I am glad you had a good experience, however, we can all admit we made mistakes. I certainly did. I did not, however, steal medications. If you look my license up it says I did, though. WITH NO EVIDENCE. Just a hunch from my boss because was easier than finding out what DID happen. I DO know what happened. I usually leave this part out because it makes me shake to even address it.  later found out another nurse came behind me to take the medication for herself. She admitted it after diverting from another facility. The BON said it doesn't matter because I signed an agreement so I did take it, so they wouldn't be relooking at that. I don't even care about the money thrown away for drug tests. I just wanted my reputation back. I can hire a lawyer except I'm still in financial ruin from the entire thing, and I'm lucky to be able to at least juggle my bills and keep my kids from realizing we have no money. They're fed with a roof. And I'll never have the money to clear my name. All because there's no governing entity over the BON. 
 

 

I hate that for you! I really do! That's tough for real!! I get what you are saying. The BON has a legal team they run things through and orders before they give them to us, but still, I get what you mean completely. I am grateful for my mom, she has paid all my fees and drug testing fees bc she knows I have no way to pay them when I'm in a job making $13.50/hr (talk about major humbling myself). On that hourly rate I have a one bedroom apartment, I paid my utilities, I lost my Medicaid and food stamps bc making $13 an hour puts you over the limit for government assistance, go figure. I was out of work for 2 years jumping from rehabs to the streets numerous times. There is no way I could pay for any of this without my mom. I'm just grateful she agreed to help me as long as I kept doing everything I was doing and stayed out of trouble, but I question all the time how do people do it that don't have the help bc most of us aren't practicing as a nurse or a NP when doing this. Just like I say about probation and parole.....these systems are not set up to be your friend. I get why people go back out and relapse or give up bc it's exhausting, it is mentally draining as well and it becomes too much and overwhelming. I just have to tell myself to keep doing what I'm doing and I'll be okay. I have to do one day at a time or I think I'll go crazy 

SoberNP said:

I hate that for you! I really do! That's tough for real!! I get what you are saying. The BON has a legal team they run things through and orders before they give them to us, but still, I get what you mean completely. I am grateful for my mom, she has paid all my fees and drug testing fees bc she knows I have no way to pay them when I'm in a job making $13.50/hr (talk about major humbling myself). On that hourly rate I have a one bedroom apartment, I paid my utilities, I lost my Medicaid and food stamps bc making $13 an hour puts you over the limit for government assistance, go figure. I was out of work for 2 years jumping from rehabs to the streets numerous times. There is no way I could pay for any of this without my mom. I'm just grateful she agreed to help me as long as I kept doing everything I was doing and stayed out of trouble, but I question all the time how do people do it that don't have the help bc most of us aren't practicing as a nurse or a NP when doing this. Just like I say about probation and parole.....these systems are not set up to be your friend. I get why people go back out and relapse or give up bc it's exhausting, it is mentally draining as well and it becomes too much and overwhelming. I just have to tell myself to keep doing what I'm doing and I'll be okay. I have to do one day at a time or I think I'll go crazy 

absolutely not meant to be your friend, but it would be cool if they didn't actively try to kick you while you're down. Parole is the worst. I haven't been on parole but I work with the homeless population and have to take them from jail to parole before mental health court and the way I have to bite my tongue because WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO HIM LIKE THAT. 😮‍💨 and that's literally not even a small piece of it. And it's not even me and it gets me so upset. I wish I had a support a system like that. That's so good for you and your sobriety. Most of my coworkers are in felony probation and in recovery. I go to AA with a couple of my teammates pretty often if we're out and they want to hit a meeting. Don't laugh at me like they did LOL but I swear no one out there outshines someone in recovery. They're a whole light in this world. (I stole that from fb but it's true). The strength it takes, all of the hard work on healing yourself...to walk into parole or the BON giving you all the ways you should fail 😒 I got punished for lazy work from my employer and the BON.  But it all really opened my eyes. Changes need to be made. I don't have the answers. I just wish I knew a path to even begin to advocate for that. Everything happens for a reason. I was put in a place where (ironically, really) I'm surrounded by people in recovery and get to work side by side with them, learning from their journey. I have seen coworkers relapse, go to treatment and come back to work or the flip side, not make it to treatment and overdose 😔 my patients are usually in active addiction, unhoused and trying to survive. I am really lucky that I had a caseworker who advocated for me at all times. She wasn't my friend but she damn sure was going to help me succeed when I wanted to quit. She even advocated and got me release 4 days early so I didn't have to wait another whole weekend. My story won't be changed no matter what I do from here. I was so blind sighted by how someone could just lie and the BON could just go with it without evidence. A legal team in place doesn't mean much when one nurse can't fight the whole system. They might have enough money to fight for themselves but that broken system is still there. It has the potential to harm all of us. I was really upset about how my case was decided but when that nurse admitted to me and apologized, wrote a statement and it wasn't even taken for consideration...I had completely my monitoring already. I just wanted my name cleaned. She was in active addiction and very functional until she wasn't. I don't blame her at all. She wasn't trying to harm me and didn't have the strength to speak up. The facility I worked for knew though. Noone will  convince me otherwise. And now the BON knows but doesn't care. I'm assuming it's safer to just deny it bc if they pull back a public discipline it's admitting fault and mishandling a case, opening up for legal action. Again, I have no answers on how to fix anything or even any ideas. I just hope if someone hears my story they 1. Always carry insurance to protect themselves and 2. Be braver and louder than I was through the process. If I had been braver and louder, I might have had a different outcome.