Johns Hopkins Entry into Nursing (MSN) Fall 2021

Clo · Feb 16, 2021

I've read that other people who graduated with an MSN had the same pay and entry level jobs as a nurse with a BSN. But once they had been working for about 2 years and gained some experience, they started receiving higher pay and were elevated to higher roles, that their BSN coworkers weren't considered for. So I think it all depends on what you want to do with your career. If you decide to go on to become an NP, DNP, or Phd, you can do any of those with either degree. However, if you don't go back to school after your initial program, you will at least have an MSN to fall back on, and have a better chance for promotions and higher pay (in the future). I think one advantage of the MSN degree is that if you do a DNP or Phd program at the same school, like JHU, they will count some of your credits from your MSN program towards your DNP/Phd program, which could save you some time/money.

kesha111222 · Feb 17, 2021

I applied to both MN and ABSN programs. At the end of the end, both programs will have the same job trajectory; becoming an RN. However, I chose Hopkins program because it was cheaper than the ABSN program I got into. I think its important to understand the job you get after grad will be the same; you just have a few extra classes about leadership and what not. I will say I attended an info session for another school and they said schools are moving towards to Masters Entry programs rather than ABSN programs because the Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (the institution that accredits schools) wants nursing to be a graduate level study. Same thing about NP programs moving towards DNP program; the CCNE is recommending that change of program. Therefore, Maters Entry programs and ABSNs program are essentially the same; pick whatever school is better for you. I know the MN programs are saying it can lead to jobs in management, but I would focus on the fact that you'll start off as an RN either way. Doing clinicals and potentially getting a job at Hopkins Medical Center is what is bringing me to campus.

RN Imposter · Feb 17, 2021

On 2/15/2021 at 10:30 PM, sarahrebecca said:

For some reason that link is not working for me....

Like @futureagacnp , I also am trying to understand the benefit of doing this ELMSN when you graduate with the ability to take your NCLEX and become an RN. Johns Hopkins doesn’t even have an NP Program that I want anyway, which is in psych. When I spoke to someone in admissions, they told me that although you start off the same as any other new RN, regardless of BSN or MSN, but the MSN will become a differentiating factor when ascending the career ladder and trying to get a position in management. @RN Imposter have you heard of this being the case with some of your friends from the year above you?

There’s part of me that thinks this likely isn’t true since your MSN from JHSU won’t award with the ability to take any APRN boards. Even for JHSU, their “post-masters” psych certification (which I was really interested) requires you to be an APRN, which you can’t become through the ELMSN. I’m really scratching my head as to what exactly the benefit of this program is...

@sarahrebecca Having an MSN degree might help somewhat when ascending to a position like unit manager after you've gained at least 2-3 years experience, but quite frankly, it's not a huge advantage. If you take a look at several executive hospital boards, you'll see some Chief Nurse Officers with just a BSN but holding 6 specialty certifications and 20+ year's experience etc. Also, notice that many of them did not graduate from an Ivy League nursing school to become a manager or executive officer if that is what your end goal is. One advantage though to having an MSN, is that you'll see there are 2 year dnp programs vs 4 year programs at some schools for folks who already have an MSN degree. But for the most part, expect to be earning very low wages for your MSN degree as an entry level RN. Sorry, you still need to do the time; there are no shortcuts around gaining valuable experience honing your clinical practice as as professional nurse. Some hospitals in CA do offer differential pay for higher degrees regardless of experience (due to union contracts) but generally the vast majority of hospitals I looked up and applied to do not if you're an entry level nurse as in, you have no prior professional nursing experience prior to applying to the position.

RN Imposter · Feb 17, 2021

22 hours ago, Clo said:

I've read that other people who graduated with an MSN had the same pay and entry level jobs as a nurse with a BSN. But once they had been working for about 2 years and gained some experience, they started receiving higher pay and were elevated to higher roles, that their BSN coworkers weren't considered for. So I think it all depends on what you want to do with your career. If you decide to go on to become an NP, DNP, or Phd, you can do any of those with either degree. However, if you don't go back to school after your initial program, you will at least have an MSN to fall back on, and have a better chance for promotions and higher pay (in the future). I think one advantage of the MSN degree is that if you do a DNP or Phd program at the same school, like JHU, they will count some of your credits from your MSN program towards your DNP/Phd program, which could save you some time/money.

Yes, confirming to you that MSN entry level RNs receive the same pay as entry level BSNs. I'm surprised JHU's MSN entry program was found to be cheaper than an ABSN program that someone else mentioned on this thread considering most ABSN programs I looked up were just a 1 year or 1.5 year program. As for accelerating faster with an MSN, it's not quite that much of an advantage if let's say you're applying for a management position and competing with someone with a BSN but with 7+ year's experience who owns several specialty certifications. You'll be on equal footing when interviewing. If your end goal is to be a Nurse Practitioner, having an MSN might save you time in being able to apply to 2 year dnp programs as yes, there is a consensus that nursing boards will raise the bar on requiring advanced degrees to be an NP but that still hasn't happened yet and no one knows how soon that will happen, 5 years from now, 10 years from now, etc. They've been talking about that FOREVER and nothing has changed yet. A much older nurse I know is a nurse practitioner with just a BSN because where she works, there just wasn't anyone qualified to hold that position and she had been working there for over 25 years with advanced clinical skills and certifications so she got the job. But I will say, I do feel satisfaction and pride having gained my graduate degree as I just couldn't bring myself to go to school for another bachelor's degree. Cost-wise, I think I would have been better off just doing a 1 year ABSN program and later applying to a DNP program.

NewMSNCa, MSN, RN · Feb 17, 2021

2 hours ago, kesha111222 said:

I applied to both MN and ABSN programs. At the end of the end, both programs will have the same job trajectory; becoming an RN. However, I chose Hopkins program because it was cheaper than the ABSN program I got into. I think its important to understand the job you get after grad will be the same; you just have a few extra classes about leadership and what not. I will say I attended an info session for another school and they said schools are moving towards to Masters Entry programs rather than ABSN programs because the Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (the institution that accredits schools) wants nursing to be a graduate level study. Same thing about NP programs moving towards DNP program; the CCNE is recommending that change of program. Therefore, Maters Entry programs and ABSNs program are essentially the same; pick whatever school is better for you. I know the MN programs are saying it can lead to jobs in management, but I would focus on the fact that you'll start off as an RN either way. Doing clinicals and potentially getting a job at Hopkins Medical Center is what is bringing me to campus.

This was helpful to know that schools are moving to Entry MSN programs! I am also drawn to the amount of clinical Experience Johns Hopkins states to offer, but a little discouraged by @RN Imposter’s experience. I hope this is not the norm.

NewMSNCa, MSN, RN · Feb 17, 2021

43 minutes ago, RN Imposter said:

@sarahrebecca Having an MSN degree might help somewhat when ascending to a position like unit manager after you've gained at least 2-3 years experience, but quite frankly, it's not a huge advantage. If you take a look at several executive hospital boards, you'll see some Chief Nurse Officers with just a BSN but holding 6 specialty certifications and 20+ year's experience etc. Also, notice that many of them did not graduate from an Ivy League nursing school to become a manager or executive officer if that is what your end goal is. One advantage though to having an MSN, is that you'll see there are 2 year DNP programs vs 4 year programs at some schools for folks who already have an MSN degree. But for the most part, expect to be earning very low wages for your MSN degree as an entry level RN. Sorry, you still need to do the time; there are no shortcuts around gaining valuable experience honing your clinical practice as as professional nurse. Some hospitals in CA do offer differential pay for higher degrees regardless of experience (due to union contracts) but generally the vast majority of hospitals I looked up and applied to do not if you're an entry level nurse as in, you have no prior professional nursing experience prior to applying to the position.

Thank you for your letting me know all of this. The 22 month ELMSN program is definitely appealing to me because it would jump start me on my ultimate goal, which is a DNP in PMH. I agree you have to put in the time. I just worry about the massive amount of debt I would be in, hoping that the degree and its clinical experience may someday translate to paying off all of that debt. One good thing is that where I currently live, which is San Francisco, both RNs and NPs make more than anywhere else in the country. I know it may come off as crass, but the financial aspect is a very big deal. I’m almost 15 years after college so I worry about that!

kac1225 · Feb 17, 2021

On 2/2/2021 at 1:23 AM, RN Imposter said:

Hey Guys,

I hate to be the "negative natalie" but as a recent graduate of this program (Spring 2020)- yay Covid ? I'd like to give some real information that I truly wish someone gave me before going to this school. #1, you are seriously and I mean SERIOUSLY, overpaying for your education. Don't get me wrong, the lectures and very knowledgeable professors who are teaching are excellent but the clinicals were literally CRAP. I barely got to practice any clinical skills aside from checking glucose levels, taking vitals, and administering PO meds. All of the skills you learn in simulation and lab, you won't have much opportunity to practice with real patients in your clinical rotations much less your instructor explain to you where you should be charting in EPIC, what you should be looking for in terms of your orders, where to find labs. That 30 min video module is useless. I'm in a residency program and have found just how profoundly poor my clinical rotations were in preparing me for the real job compared with other school like UW or Towson University or even community college nursing students are getting and this came from feedback from my unit manager, preceptor, and residency education program manager who train dozens of new nurses in their residency program. I paid 100K for an education that did me a disservice in not properly teaching me or providing a standard level of skills practice in my clinical rotations to ensure I would survive an RN residency program. I'm actually contemplating returning to a previous career in corporate should I get fired from my current new RN position. And just so you know, I studied HARD. I mean, I slept 3-4 hours a day, worked my *** off, NEVER missed a lecture or clinical day not even when I was sick. I graduated as a member of the national honor society for nurses, so it wasn't because I'm a poor student that I'm performing horribly as a new nurse. You should know all of this before considering plunking down a sizeable chunk of money for an education that may not properly train you! And no, hospitals truly do not care where you graduate from. I had a lot of rejections until I finally found a place willing to take me and that shiny name of "Hopkins" did nothing for me. Current hospital took me because of my previous volunteer experience on a similar unit prior to my attending nursing school. You'd do better to go to a cheaper school while working as a nursing assistant because what really helps, is having hospital work experience to lessen that gap between nursing student to real nurse. That gap is REAL if you've never working in the acute care setting or have a prior background in healthcare. New nurse salaries are quite low especially when you factor in monthly student loan payments and the high interest rates. Do your due diligence. Go to a cheaper school. Interview current nurses working at Hopkins Hospital, you'll find many of them did not go to Hopkins for their schooling so that should tell you, it doesn't matter where you graduate from.

Thank you so much for this informative post! Although I haven't heard back from Hopkins yet, I feel a sense of relief reading this. I am now leaning towards applying to the ABSN program at my local state school so that I can start my career as a nurse ASAP. I do want to be an NP in the future, though I will need experience as an RN anyway. I think this is the best option. I have to admit, I applied to a lot of nursing schools just for the name, but I'm hearing more and more that where you go to school truly does not matter. I also agree that most successful nurses did not go to Ivy League schools. Thanks again so much for this information. It's truly difficult to get an honest review out of past students from these programs. I wish you the best in your career, wherever it takes you!

msnstudent95 · Feb 18, 2021

I am not sure why several people on here are stating that JHU is an Ivy League and running with that narrative. Surely if you have attended or researched the school at all you would know that it's not. An excellent school to say the least, but it's not an Ivy.

kac1225 · Feb 18, 2021

I am aware that JHU is not an Ivy. However my point still stands because I did apply to some Ivies (Columbia and UPenn) and JHU is ranked amongst Ivy League institutions. Therefore, it’s price is comparable to ivies, and it’s spoken in conversations that are pertaining to ivies.

trypanophobia counselor · Feb 18, 2021

As of late, it seems as though this thread has been very negatively focused and has caused a lot of stress and doubt in the minds of anyone who has been accepted to JHUSON or those who may be planning on applying. In hopes of bringing some positivity back onto this feed, I want re-iterate that Hopkins has been ranked by U.S. News as the #1 best Master’s program in 2021, numerous faculty have received prestigious recognitions in the field and have been granted substantial funding to continue research, and Hopkins is well-connected in the global health space. The school and program are highly ranked and respected for a long time in the healthcare space for a reason - we should be proud of our decision to apply to such a prestigious school or be excited to accept a spot in a future cohort.

While it is unfortunate to hear about such negative experiences with the program, it’s also expected. There will never be 100% satisfaction at any program (ABSN, Mater’s, private, public, large-cohort, small-cohort, etc.). Similarly, JHUSON will not be a great fit for everyone. This is a personal decision with many factors weighing in. Regardless of where you choose to go, remember that your experience is what you make of it. I truly believe that Hopkins offers unparalleled resources, connections, and job opportunities. It’s up to you how much effort you put into your education and utilizing those resources. I don’t expect clinicals to be the most exciting during my first year seeing as I will not be certified to do much unsupervised, but I sure as hell am going to get the most out the experience and ask as many questions as I need to feel like I learned something that day.

The world needs nurses now more than ever. Whether you’re still deciding which programs to apply to, or deciding which offer to accept, try to get a holistic understanding of the educational experience and find solutions to the fears that hold you back from making your decision.

NewMSNCa, MSN, RN · Feb 18, 2021

24 minutes ago, trypanophobia counselor said:

As of late, it seems as though this thread has been very negatively focused and has caused a lot of stress and doubt in the minds of anyone who has been accepted to JHUSON or those who may be planning on applying. In hopes of bringing some positivity back onto this feed, I want re-iterate that Hopkins has been ranked by U.S. News as the #1 best Master’s program in 2021, numerous faculty have received prestigious recognitions in the field and have been granted substantial funding to continue research, and Hopkins is well-connected in the global health space. The school and program are highly ranked and respected for a long time in the healthcare space for a reason - we should be proud of our decision to apply to such a prestigious school or be excited to accept a spot in a future cohort.

While it is unfortunate to hear about such negative experiences with the program, it’s also expected. There will never be 100% satisfaction at any program (ABSN, Mater’s, private, public, large-cohort, small-cohort, etc.). Similarly, JHUSON will not be a great fit for everyone. This is a personal decision with many factors weighing in. Regardless of where you choose to go, remember that your experience is what you make of it. I truly believe that Hopkins offers unparalleled resources, connections, and job opportunities. It’s up to you how much effort you put into your education and utilizing those resources. I don’t expect clinicals to be the most exciting during my first year seeing as I will not be certified to do much unsupervised, but I sure as hell am going to get the most out the experience and ask as many questions as I need to feel like I learned something that day.

The world needs nurses now more than ever. Whether you’re still deciding which programs to apply to, or deciding which offer to accept, try to get a holistic understanding of the educational experience and find solutions to the fears that hold you back from making your decision.

Thank you for writing this. I would love to go to JHU and there are pros and cons to every program. The opportunities given by simply being at JHU I would imagine would be very helpful and lucrative. You're right, we should be proud of our decision to apply and if accepted, to attend. I applied to Johns Hopkins because it is one of the foremost, leading medical centers in the country.

I've also applied to an ELMSN program that you graduate from as a CNS in your chosen emphasis. For me, this would be psych. If anyone has insight as to board certification as a CNS, it would be so helpful to know what process is like, especially since my understanding is that PMH-CNS certification is or has been phased out.

kesha111222 · Feb 19, 2021

On 2/18/2021 at 3:10 PM, trypanophobia counselor said:

As of late, it seems as though this thread has been very negatively focused and has caused a lot of stress and doubt in the minds of anyone who has been accepted to JHUSON or those who may be planning on applying. In hopes of bringing some positivity back onto this feed, I want re-iterate that Hopkins has been ranked by U.S. News as the #1 best Master’s program in 2021, numerous faculty have received prestigious recognitions in the field and have been granted substantial funding to continue research, and Hopkins is well-connected in the global health space. The school and program are highly ranked and respected for a long time in the healthcare space for a reason - we should be proud of our decision to apply to such a prestigious school or be excited to accept a spot in a future cohort.

While it is unfortunate to hear about such negative experiences with the program, it’s also expected. There will never be 100% satisfaction at any program (ABSN, Mater’s, private, public, large-cohort, small-cohort, etc.). Similarly, JHUSON will not be a great fit for everyone. This is a personal decision with many factors weighing in. Regardless of where you choose to go, remember that your experience is what you make of it. I truly believe that Hopkins offers unparalleled resources, connections, and job opportunities. It’s up to you how much effort you put into your education and utilizing those resources. I don’t expect clinicals to be the most exciting during my first year seeing as I will not be certified to do much unsupervised, but I sure as hell am going to get the most out the experience and ask as many questions as I need to feel like I learned something that day.

The world needs nurses now more than ever. Whether you’re still deciding which programs to apply to, or deciding which offer to accept, try to get a holistic understanding of the educational experience and find solutions to the fears that hold you back from making your decision.

Thank you so much for this!! I agree, not everyone can have a perfect experience. Coming from someone who has gotten rejected from nursing school before, done tons of research, and decided between a few schools; I am stoked to come to JHU and everyone here should be as well! If you are attending and not in the fb page, definitely join! The community on there is already so active, helpful, and absolutely kind. Everyone on that page is going to make a great nurse and I completely see why they got into JHU. Moving forward, lets keep this thread positive and while doing your research, reflect on positive feedback as well as negative! As they said during a JHU Virtual Students Day event, everyone on here is actively signing up to be nurse post-pandemic. Thats incredible. Good luck to everyone ?