Johns Hopkins Entry into Nursing (MSN) Fall 2021

randocurmudgeon · Feb 5, 2021

I have another question, if you don't mind. How did you feel about the overall learning and social environment? In your experience, does the student population tend to be cutthroat or cliquey at all? Thanks so much!

RN Imposter · Feb 5, 2021

@randocurmudgeon

Honestly, it really depends on your cohort. I tended to get along much better with the cohort who graduated a semester before mine. I found most of my cohort were too busy trying to help themselves to want to help anyone else. I also got sick and tired of constantly having individuals in group projects who basically did little to nothing to contribute and had all kinds of excuses yet when you try to bring this up to the professor, there really aren't any consequences other than them telling you that you need to exercise more kindness and empathy to struggling students. Um, how about kindness and empathy towards the student who is dying sleeping less than 3 hours a day contributing more than their fair share of group work??? I did find there were plenty of nice decent folks in my cohort but we were all so busy just trying to survive, there wasn't much time for social activities other than an occasional hug for the suffering student who wants to quit nursing school. Our cohort had a reputation of not being the most supportive. A lot of people in my cohort were driven to get accolades, get into ICU units for rotations, etc. They're too preoccupied with furthering their own goals to pay attention to how rude they come across to others. But then the other cohort after us seemed really supportive of each other and had better manners so shrug, it just depends. You'll find your group of friends eventually or be so busy with just trying to survive that you just don't have time for friendships. Or, you lower your grade standards and decide having a little more balance in your life is better. Sorry this may not have been as helpful.

RN Imposter · Feb 5, 2021

7 hours ago, randocurmudgeon said:

I'm also someone who needs to work extremely hard to earn good grades, so I feel this on a deep level. 5-6 courses per semester is a lot no matter how solid one's time management is. I would probably end up with 20-hour days too if I were in this program. For all the sleep deprivation and stress, only to feel unprepared for the real thing, it doesn't seem worth it.

Sigh, I'm feeling that right now but I do have the foresight to acknowledge that I may feel differently 2-3 years from now when I'm not feeling so threatened about losing my job as a new nurse when I was already earning close to 100K in a previous career where a bachelor's degree was optional LOL. . . But if I could have done things at all differently, I would have gone to a more affordable school or just not do nursing at all and go get my MBA and PMP certification in project management like I had originally planned in 2008 when the economy crashed and I lost my job [whump whump]. I guess you can say I'm the generation that got sandwiched between disasters from 9/11 to the Great Recession and then graduating nursing school in the middle of a pandemic. So needless to say, my outlook may be more pessimistic than if you were to talk to someone much younger who didn't have so much crap happen in their life . . . yet [chuckle].

randocurmudgeon · Feb 6, 2021

@RN Imposter Hey, thank you again so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with us.

You're absolutely right that each cohort is a unique blend of different personalities, and I'm glad you were able to get along well with the cohort who was one semester above you. I guess that's one of the factors out of our control, though it could have an immense impact on our learning experiences I'd imagine.

Ugh, group projects are the literal worst. They're completely useless and almost always unfair, and I thought we would have left all that nonsense behind in undergrad. What happened to basic human consideration, right? I feel your pain because I'm always the one doing all the work in group projects. ? Unfortunately, it is hard to find a balance between meeting one's own goals while also supporting others in reaching their goals. That's something I need to remind myself of often because I tend to fall into a scarcity fallacy of sorts (in falsely presuming that helping others succeed would mean fewer opportunities for myself). It is a difficult balance though, and there is always going to be some level of competition present.

So I know the program is 150+ per cohort, and for whatever reason I JUST realized that at any given time there are probably 5 separate cohorts there. So like, ~750 total nursing students at any given time. Word, LOL that's a ton of people. I can see problems arising just from the sheer number of students.

randocurmudgeon · Feb 6, 2021

4 hours ago, RN Imposter said:

Sigh, I'm feeling that right now but I do have the foresight to acknowledge that I may feel differently 2-3 years from now when I'm not feeling so threatened about losing my job as a new nurse when I was already earning close to 100K in a previous career where a bachelor's degree was optional LOL. . . But if I could have done things at all differently, I would have gone to a more affordable school or just not do nursing at all and go get my MBA and PMP certification in project management like I had originally planned in 2008 when the economy crashed and I lost my job [whump whump]. I guess you can say I'm the generation that got sandwiched between disasters from 9/11 to the Great Recession and then graduating nursing school in the middle of a pandemic. So needless to say, my outlook may be more pessimistic than if you were to talk to someone much younger who didn't have so much crap happen in their life . . . yet [chuckle].

That's... a lot you've been through over the years. Wow. And as someone who got inspired to go into nursing because of the pandemic, I can't imagine actually graduating in the middle of it. Crazy times. Well, you sound strong and resilient, and I'm sure you'll do well. You can still get a MBA and PMP (and maybe also a DNP-Executive Track if you want to continue in nursing?). [OK maybe this was quite insensitive of me to say because these programs all cost soooo much money and you already feel robbed of your life savings - my apologies]. I hope your nursing background will help open doors to a bunch of management opportunities that weren't there before even if you don't decide to continue with clinical practice. And nah, pessimism IMO is a million times better than "toxic positivity." Haven't been through half as much as you in my life but I'm already the most cynical person I know. Hence, the username "curmudgeon" LOL.

RN Imposter · Feb 7, 2021

@randocurmudgeon

Well, I had originally planned to transition towards working in the medical device industry with my nursing background but I'm contemplating whether to still go that route considering the number of years of nursing experience those industries like to see before you apply and having to start over again with a lower salary since you're once again, starting at entry level leaving bedside nursing and going into medical devices/pharma. Later, if I want to progress into management, likely, another 2 years and lots of $$$ to earn an MBA etc. I don't know how young people manage to get all the degrees and certifications employers are demanding these days and not have crippling debt for the rest of their lives. There definitely is a disconnect between what employers demand and what they're willing to pay for those qualifications. It was nice chatting with you and I do hope you decide what's best for YOU. Lots of people I know love their career in nursing but I also know a lot of them left because of health reasons (broken back, can't do 12-13 hour shifts after having a new baby, etc.) Many of them switched to lower acuity settings or cut back their hours and are satisfied. I'm not married so I can't rely on a second income to supplement that I'm earning less in a lower acuity setting or working less hours. It all depends on your individual situation. Best of luck to you! Hope my brutally honest information has not demoralized you. I just wish the nurses I spoke with prior to nursing school were as equally brutally honest. I would have made a different decision altogether. Ah well, I'll never regret trying something new in any case. You can't learn anything without making mistakes ?

RN Imposter · Feb 7, 2021

On 2/5/2021 at 5:27 PM, randocurmudgeon said:

@RN Imposter Hey, thank you again so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with us.

You're absolutely right that each cohort is a unique blend of different personalities, and I'm glad you were able to get along well with the cohort who was one semester above you. I guess that's one of the factors out of our control, though it could have an immense impact on our learning experiences I'd imagine.

Ugh, group projects are the literal worst. They're completely useless and almost always unfair, and I thought we would have left all that nonsense behind in undergrad. What happened to basic human consideration, right? I feel your pain because I'm always the one doing all the work in group projects. ? Unfortunately, it is hard to find a balance between meeting one's own goals while also supporting others in reaching their goals. That's something I need to remind myself of often because I tend to fall into a scarcity fallacy of sorts (in falsely presuming that helping others succeed would mean fewer opportunities for myself). It is a difficult balance though, and there is always going to be some level of competition present.

So I know the program is 150+ per cohort, and for whatever reason I JUST realized that at any given time there are probably 5 separate cohorts there. So like, ~750 total nursing students at any given time. Word, LOL that's a ton of people. I can see problems arising just from the sheer number of students.

Oh wow, 150+ per cohort!?? It was 130+ when I went there. That's nuts. The professors are already overworked as it is grading all those papers, preparing lectures, conducting research etc. They're all very passionate about their work but don't count on getting email replies to your questions because you're like student 707 that's emailing them LOL. They just don't have the time. If I were you, I'd look up smaller schools. If you're going to drop 100K for your education, you should ask what the student to faculty ratio is. I didn't realize that's why most nursing schools in California only accept 50-70 students per cohort and you end up getting waitlisted. I realize now the value in that. Also, their tuition was half the cost of what I paid at JHU. Keep in mind, you're not just paying tuition: cost of renting textbooks, apartment/dorm rent, groceries, parking fees (parking can be pricey at your school so check), printer paper and ink if you're like me and and still like printing out lecture slides and assigned research articles vs. downloading digital copies.

futureagacnp · Feb 8, 2021

Hello!

I have a couple questions for any students who have already graduated from the MSN program.

1. Were you able to easily find a RN job even outside of the Baltimore area?

2. Do you know how likely it is to be accepted into the DNP program?

3. If you choose to do the DNP program with online coursework and clinicals in a region of the country outside of Baltimore, do you need to find your own clinicals?

I want to be a nurse practitioner and I'm concerned about entering into a program for my master's degree just to become an RN. I wish that we could have applied jointly to the DNP. I was recently accepted to UPenn's Accelerated BSN/MSN program which I am excited about because I feel a bit safer knowing that I was already accepted to their NP Program, but can anyone share their opinion on an MSN degree versus DNP degree for the NP license?

Sorry this is a lot, but thank you in advance for your help!!

randocurmudgeon · Feb 8, 2021

https://nursing.jhu.edu/student-experience/career-lab/documents/CareerOutcomesInfographic.pdf

NewMSNCa, MSN, RN · Feb 16, 2021

On 2/8/2021 at 11:19 AM, randocurmudgeon said:

https://nursing.jhu.edu/student-experience/career-lab/documents/CareerOutcomesInfographic.pdf

For some reason that link is not working for me....

Like @futureagacnp , I also am trying to understand the benefit of doing this ELMSN when you graduate with the ability to take your NCLEX and become an RN. Johns Hopkins doesn’t even have an NP Program that I want anyway, which is in psych. When I spoke to someone in admissions, they told me that although you start off the same as any other new RN, regardless of BSN or MSN, but the MSN will become a differentiating factor when ascending the career ladder and trying to get a position in management. @RN Imposter have you heard of this being the case with some of your friends from the year above you?

There’s part of me that thinks this likely isn’t true since your MSN from JHSU won’t award with the ability to take any APRN boards. Even for JHSU, their “post-masters” psych certification (which I was really interested) requires you to be an APRN, which you can’t become through the ELMSN. I’m really scratching my head as to what exactly the benefit of this program is...

FutureNP90 · Feb 16, 2021

12 hours ago, sarahrebecca said:

For some reason that link is not working for me....

Like @futureagacnp , I also am trying to understand the benefit of doing this ELMSN when you graduate with the ability to take your NCLEX and become an RN. Johns Hopkins doesn’t even have an NP Program that I want anyway, which is in psych. When I spoke to someone in admissions, they told me that although you start off the same as any other new RN, regardless of BSN or MSN, but the MSN will become a differentiating factor when ascending the career ladder and trying to get a position in management. @RN Imposter have you heard of this being the case with some of your friends from the year above you?

There’s part of me that thinks this likely isn’t true since your MSN from JHSU won’t award with the ability to take any APRN boards. Even for JHSU, their “post-masters” psych certification (which I was really interested) requires you to be an APRN, which you can’t become through the ELMSN. I’m really scratching my head as to what exactly the benefit of this program is...

Yeah, I agree, there are a lot of programs that don't always clearly differentiate the difference between an entry level MSN or a masters program that lets you sit for the ANCC or AANP. You mentioned the biggest difference, which is that the entry level lets you sit for the NCLEX, and the Masters (which you would already need to have an RN license for) lets you sit for the APRN exam. Im not saying this was the deciding factor as to why I decided to apply to the entry level MSN for JHU, but I will say, as someone who already has a Bachelors degree, going to the next step and getting a Masters naturally feels like the next step. That being said, I absolutely applied to ABSN programs to receive a second bachelors and move forward with my nursing degree and career, and would still consider it to be a valid and hard earned degree (regardless of it being a step below a Masters).

I guess at the end of the day it may just be a preference and how those applicants decide to move forward with their nursing career? Im also not sure if maybe having your ELMSN will help (vs a BSN) with leadership positions that do not have to do with being a practitioner but instead clinical leaders, management, etc?

NewMSNCa, MSN, RN · Feb 16, 2021

5 minutes ago, FutureNP90 said:

Yeah, I agree, there are a lot of programs that don't always clearly differentiate the difference between an entry level MSN or a masters program that lets you sit for the ANCC or AANP. You mentioned the biggest difference, which is that the entry level lets you sit for the NCLEX, and the Masters (which you would already need to have an RN license for) lets you sit for the APRN exam. Im not saying this was the deciding factor as to why I decided to apply to the entry level MSN for JHU, but I will say, as someone who already has a Bachelors degree, going to the next step and getting a Masters naturally feels like the next step. That being said, I absolutely applied to ABSN programs to receive a second bachelors and move forward with my nursing degree and career, and would still consider it to be a valid and hard earned degree (regardless of it being a step below a Masters).

I guess at the end of the day it may just be a preference and how those applicants decide to move forward with their nursing career? Im also not sure if maybe having your ELMSN will help (vs a BSN) with leadership positions that do not have to do with being a practitioner but instead clinical leaders, management, etc?

Thank you, @RN Imposter, for your thoughtful response. It really helps to hear from someone who is now out in the field after receiving the ELMSN from JHSON. I share the same feeling in that I want to be able to further my education with a Masters degree but am really trying to weigh the pros and cons.

Do you know anyone or have spoken to anyone that’s also graduated from this program that has received a real life benefit to having this type of MSN? Salary, career advancement, more oops? It’s great to have lots of academic knowledge, but if there’s no practical application to it that benefits you in terms of advancement I can’t for the life of me understand why I would get this degree and not an ABSN and then a MSN after that qualifies you to take APRN boards.