Jobs while in RAMP?

catsmeow1972, BSN, RN · Oct 18, 2016

Sadly, i think you have described a sizable chunk of the people in these programs, nationwide. As i believe you understand, there is a place and a situation where these things are appropriate and useful. I suppose that at some point, someone said "nurses have substance issues. We should do something to help them." and I think that is how they started, but the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction, that a large net is cast and people who have no need for such a program or certainly no need for such draconian measures are scooped up. I myself have mental health issues. I do not object to the accountability to someone (frankly myself is sufficient) that I stay on my meds (I do and I am quite fine thank you), etc. However i landed here after an episode of well, let's just say the meds being off." I am very resentful of being treated like a person with a substance abuse issue. 5 years of BS like drug tests and AA meetings (I find my presence at AA meetings to be insulting to the people for whom that is a lifeline.) DO NOTHING to help me and in fact are harmful (my therapists words). Still i am ordered. My single tip off a cliff is splattered all over my license for all the world to see, and take wayy out of context.

So yeah, i know what your friend is going through.

You will get a lot of people saying, "just persevere, it will end some day, etc." Yeah all that and...yes be angry. it's okay. Do not under any circumstances think that this crap is anything about rehabilitation or helping. They are not. It's all about the money and justification of abuse. These programs primarily issue generic contracts with generic stipulations with total disregard for what the participant really needs (which may be absolutely nothing.)

it won't help the physical presence of the problem, but there is a slew of reading on this site and out there on the web that proves just how wrong all this is. If you are going to find a lawyer, be very careful who. Get one that specializes in license defense, in your state. They are not cheap but they are worth it. If your friend has any kind of malpractice insurance now is the time to use it. Most policies pay for the attorney for this sort of thing.

Last but not least, tread carefully around these people running these horror shows. They are not your friend and they don't care how much damage this may be doing.

As for jobs, there is the routine advice of "dialysis, insurance companies and the like." Depending on the ability to relocate, there are hospital systems that are extremely supportive of people in this boat, rightfully or not. I am about to start working for just such a system, but I am not in NJ. Seeing as how getting back to work is the primary, most immediately fixable part, look around here, there is a lot of advice on how to interview with this "scarlet letter."

I know I don't have any magic words to fix it, but your friend is not alone in this. This forum is a great support.

Just don't give up! They (the program, BON, whatever) win that way.

SororAKS, ADN, RN · Oct 19, 2016

Sadly, i think you have described a sizable chunk of the people in these programs, nationwide. As i believe you understand, there is a place and a situation where these things are appropriate and useful. I suppose that at some point, someone said "nurses have substance issues. We should do something to help them." and I think that is how they started, but the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction, that a large net is cast and people who have no need for such a program or certainly no need for such draconian measures are scooped up. I myself have mental health issues. I do not object to the accountability to someone (frankly myself is sufficient) that I stay on my meds (I do and I am quite fine thank you), etc. However i landed here after an episode of well, let's just say the meds being off." I am very resentful of being treated like a person with a substance abuse issue. 5 years of BS like drug tests and AA meetings (I find my presence at AA meetings to be insulting to the people for whom that is a lifeline.) DO NOTHING to help me and in fact are harmful (my therapists words). Still i am ordered. My single tip off a cliff is splattered all over my license for all the world to see, and take wayy out of context.
So yeah, i know what your friend is going through.
You will get a lot of people saying, "just persevere, it will end some day, etc." Yeah all that and...yes be angry. it's okay. Do not under any circumstances think that this crap is anything about rehabilitation or helping. They are not. It's all about the money and justification of abuse. These programs primarily issue generic contracts with generic stipulations with total disregard for what the participant really needs (which may be absolutely nothing.)
it won't help the physical presence of the problem, but there is a slew of reading on this site and out there on the web that proves just how wrong all this is. If you are going to find a lawyer, be very careful who. Get one that specializes in license defense, in your state. They are not cheap but they are worth it. If your friend has any kind of malpractice insurance now is the time to use it. Most policies pay for the attorney for this sort of thing.
Last but not least, tread carefully around these people running these horror shows. They are not your friend and they don't care how much damage this may be doing.
As for jobs, there is the routine advice of "dialysis, insurance companies and the like." Depending on the ability to relocate, there are hospital systems that are extremely supportive of people in this boat, rightfully or not. I am about to start working for just such a system, but I am not in NJ. Seeing as how getting back to work is the primary, most immediately fixable part, look around here, there is a lot of advice on how to interview with this "scarlet letter."
I know I don't have any magic words to fix it, but your friend is not alone in this. This forum is a great support.
Just don't give up! They (the program, BON, whatever) win that way.

Great advice ^^^^^. Unfortunately your friend is not the only one. There are not only a fair amount of nurses in this position, but also physicians. What had likely begun as a way to help those affected by substance abuse and mental health issues has swollen to something grotesque and unrecognizable.

Another angle on this, although it might not be popular, is to get political. Contacting one's state representatives about this, sharing the story of the burdensome and non applicable conditions placed on the ability to practice, is an option. I know of one person that has contacted a gubernatorial candidate, as well as state representatives, on the difficulties a draconian BON has caused. She is also hosting a reception for the candidate, who is sympathetic to these issues.

I wait with interest for the outcome of this election, for that reason. I am dealing with similar issues, and if the outcome is favorable it gives me not only something else to work with, but a different BON (they are appointed by the governor in this particular state, which I won't mention but anyone interested can PM me).

sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN · Oct 19, 2016

I found LTC, MDS Coordinator....position, to be perfect environment to working thru THOSE stipulations....

best wishes

mike856nj · Oct 21, 2016

Thank you for your input. I can't begin to understand how frustrating and painful it feels to not have any vices and be thrown into a world where you feel helpless. My friend's life is crumbling down and not having a drug or alcohol dependance and sit through these meetings where these so-called SUPPORT groups sit there and belittle you. There seems to be very little support and more judging and taunting. I'm not saying they are all like this, but several have terrible moderators that seems to get off on having group members pick on you. There are bullies and members who get extremely upset if you tell them you do not have a problem. It's almost better to lie to fit in. My friend's situation is a very odd one and they got completely screwed in this matter. It's really a sad case and they certainly do not belong in RAMP. I do wish those who do have a dependence problem the best of luck and hope they receive the help they need, but the BON really needs to look deeper into some of these cases to see the wrong that is being committed against those who slipped through the cracks. Again, thank you and I just would like them to find some employment before they end up living in a shelter. Sigh

Drew Gibson · Mar 6, 2022

Unfortunately I am going through the same thing, I left my old job, resigned. And 6 months later I get a RAMP offer for diversion .It says voluntary but if I don't comply they will report to the NJBON . So now I don't know what to do it says I will have to voluntarily suspend my license. But I can't afford to do that and lose work. Is there any way around this or at least keeping my license while in the program? I will comply if I can keep working , what if I just want to the BON myself and pleas my case ?

allnurses Guide · Mar 7, 2022

On 10/17/2016 at 5:03 PM, mike856nj said:

but back to my question. Are there any jobs in nursing clinical or not that are acceptable while under the RAMP program?

In general dialysis clinics, acute in-patient psych are good places to start. Also follow up with wherever other nurses in the program are working. You can do MDS nursing or case management unless you are on the OIG list.

If your friend is truly innocent and rail-roaded I strongly recommend she seek counsel. The American Assoc of Nurse Attorneys has attorneys experienced in license defense in most states and will give a free initial consult. find them at Http://TAANA.org.

allnurses Guide · Mar 7, 2022

11 hours ago, Drew Gibson said:

what if I just want to the BON myself and pleas my case ?

Do not go before the BON or speak to anyone at the BON or the inspector General's office without counsel.

The American Assoc of Nurse Attorneys has attorneys experienced in license defense in most states and will give a free initial consult. find them at Http://TAANA.org.

Pene Lope · Mar 13, 2023

To all my RAMP colleagues: hang on there. I am an exRamp. Dismissed over the phone in 2016. Alleged admission of tampering. To who? When? I wasn't given any details and they shut me off immediately. I had to go over the list of possible grounds and check where I fit in. She just said it's between me and the board from that time on. But I seem to have been forgotten. It's 2023! My status still Inactive ! Yey! Have they called me? Yes. Once. Was there a correspondence.? Yes. Once. Only after I went to the board office in 2018. There was a monthly review happening July 2018 for which I may be included. So I have to wait. So I wonder what is the protocol when a participant is dismissed? who's job is it to report the dismissed participant to the board? Regardless of what rules I have violated, I should have been given an opportunity to speak about the truth, to air my side. I should have been given the details.
RAMP broke me. They don't care. No one followed up on me. My calls, emails, to BON & RAMP were unanswered. Here's a tip to all: record or document conversations with them. Date, time, who you spoke to. The affinity account closes as soon as you are verbally dismissed. they also made sure I do not go to my support group.
on your next peer group meeting, can someone ask their support group leader, how is the process of dismissal done. I would appreciate it very much.
Tax payers such as us, must demand investigation on possible RAMP wrongdoings such as mine. Accountability over negligence of assigned duty. As tax payers, we deserve a better way to be treated by contractors such as RAMP.

They call us liars, deceitful, impaired, manipulative nurses that cannot be trusted to care for the public.

we demand better ramp leadership.
stop threatening us with suspensions.