had job offer but NM had "CONCERNS" about me, should I accept??

holdensjane · Aug 25, 2007

In the state where I practice, all references are channelled through HR. One reason is to prevent organization liability. Had the current manager used the proper channels to share information the employee would not feel confused. Yes, we managers do talk off the record with each other and when that is the case neither party should "share" what is said with the individual about whom it refers. Could the employee file suit, yes. Could there be an element of discrimination, yes. All of this hinges on the fact that the employee's performance reviews did not address information that was negative under the element of "communication". Perspective employees, according to current labor practice, are to be chosen solely on the ability to perform the elements of the job being offered. I would suggest those who have questions about the appropriateness of the interactions consult the individual human resource personnel.

Since I would be working in the same hospital of the current NM, maybe I should just let it go. But, part of me feels like this was just not right. what would you do? I plan on talking to my current NM first. If I take it to HR, could it affect my new job as an RN? What are some ways this could backfire on me?

nanacarol · Aug 25, 2007

If you are still unsettled about speaking to the current NM, let it go. Organizations are made up of people who weild influence in many different arenas. Learn early to pick your battles wisely. If you are staying, you are in a nothing lost category. Focus on becoming the best nurse you are capable of becoming, ask questions early about performance and be open to criticism. Believe in your ability to provide the best nursing care and you will suceed.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Aug 25, 2007

let me tell you a few things about how transfers are handled within a facility. when a staff nurse requests a transfer to another nursing unit, eventually both managers involved find out about it. when the transfer request goes in, the nurse manager who gets the request is supposed to do an investigation of the staff nurse's work record with the facility. this is no different than when you put an application in with a potential employer except that it is being handled internally because you already work for the organization. this usually involves the manager of the unit you requested a transfer to going to human resources and looking at your permanent personnel record for disciplinary actions. beyond that, it gets tricky and depends on the interpersonal communication skills of the managers. in your case, the manager must have done some investigation with your current manager. i can only imagine what went on in those conversations. in the job market, badmouthing to deliberately cause a person to not get a job position has been curtailed by allowing job seekers to sue former employers who do this. you have no protection against it when it is going on within the facility you have worked. you are at the mercy of two managers who are ganging up on you, is what i think is going on. one has done their best to give you a nasty ding with a new manager and most likely is thinking she's stabbing you in the back for any problems you've given her as a subordinate, probably just because (for this alone, you need to steer clear of her); and another who stupidly, or not, fell for the game playing of the other manager and doesn't have much integrity. if she wants you on her unit so badly, she sure isn't making it sound like it. it's possible that the manager of this unit you want to transfer to has no choice and must take you as a transfer. she may be taking orders from the director of nursing. even so, she's making it as miserable as possible for you is my take on it.

when i was a manager there were cliques of nursing managers. if a staff nurse was trying to transfer from one unit to another that involved managers who were friends and there was something about the employee that their current manager didn't particularly like, that staff nurse could pretty much forget about any transfer taking place. it just wasn't going to happen. our director of nursing knew about this going on and when she had a staff nurse that was having a rough go of it with one manager, she would step in and facilitate the staff nurse's transfer to another unit. what you have to understand is that just because someone is a manager doesn't automatically mean they are ethical, handle things confidentially, and don't act like high school girls.

think about this. why would a manager who, in essence, is hiring you, make statements to you like you "can't be standoffish"? if you were interviewing for a new job in a new hospital something like that would never be said to an applicant as a condition of being hired! also, staff nurses don't usually know how the staffing of the other nursing units works, so she's wrong to blame you for any part you had in working extra shifts on other units. i know how the staffing game works among the managers and it is never an individual staff nurse's fault unless they are the ones calling off sick all the time. to ding you for working extra shifts to fill holes in another unit's schedule is absolutely ludicrous. to ding you even more for not filling her holes is her own fault for not keeping track of her own staffing needs. what a dummy. that's part of a manager's job and if you, a staff nurse, figured out the game before her, kudos to you. it took me 6 months to learn how staffing worked when i first became a supervisor. my first and last stop of my day as a manager was to the staffing office to check the staffing for my unit to see what holes in the schedule had or hadn't been filled. a manager's primary responsibility is to get those holes filled even if there is a staffing clerk to help to do that. we were supposed to make it our business to find out what staff nurses were willing to work extra shifts anywhere in the house. i worked with plenty of managers who were willing to let the staffing clerks do this and never watched what the staffing on their units looked like! being a manager doesn't necessarily mean someone is good at all the aspects of their job.

this manager is using some very intimidating tactics on you designed to manipulate by inflicting fear. ask yourself: if this new manager doesn't think you are a team player, why does she even want to let you transfer to her unit? is she nuts? i'm sitting here wondering why you would even want to work for her? she's trying to sabotage your attempt to transfer, kiddo. if i were trying to woo a staff nurse to work on my unit i sure wouldn't be threatening or intimidating her. i'd be romancing you and doing my best to get you to come and work on my unit. i'm telling you, something smells here. this whole situation doesn't feel right to me either. i would trust your instincts. i think a heap of trouble awaits you it you take this transfer. she can only intimidate you now; as your boss who knows what kind of crap she can pull on you. as i said in an earlier reply, look at another unit to transfer to or look for a job at another hospital. you deserve to start your new career with a manager who has more integrity than this goof up.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Aug 25, 2007

I think that you should take a good hard look at yourself and their concerns. Maybe have a final interview with your manager saying "I really want to the areas I can improve in and would appreciate some clarification on the "concerns" you have." If they are completely off base in how they percieve you that's o.k. If there's some misunderstandings, you can clear those up. If they offer constructive criticism, take it on the chin and consider it.

If you seriously think the issues are just a pissing contest between the incompetent managers, then don't work there.

If you want the job, just take the job with your head held high and simply prove to the new manager that the concerns were unnecessary. Maybe after a few weeks to a month stop by the manager and ask "Do you still have concerns, am I communicating in a manner that you find acceptable, am I "standoffish"?"

Communicate don't speculate.

holdensjane · Aug 25, 2007

you guys really think its a pissy fit? the NM was super nice in that interview. after we spoke again and she told me of her concerns, she said "i'm gonna take you on, but I want you to know going into this that we're a team effort here and I don't want you to be standoffish, everyone here is really nice and there's no reason why you can't succeed". she added alot of other comments that were warnings/encouragements. I don't think the DON knows about it, as I sought the interview directly and the transfer request was only put in after the hire. She said I gave her a really nice interview but since my current NM had concerns, it led her to have concerns. you really think my NM is mad at me for transferring? I wouldn't be in the same role anyway. But you guys are right, I was thinking to myself too "why would you still take me on if you have all these concerns?" it just seems to me that the new NM is going off of what the current NM is saying, but then again I don't have the experience you guys do to see through these things. I called the NM and offered her other references, which btw I did not list my NM as a reference, and she said no because she's gonna give me the job. I am going to talk to my current NM to figure out where my downfalls are. I just kinda feel ambushed and there's nothing I can do. Unfortunately this is my only offer at the moment. I'm just surprised all the concerns are brought to my attention now.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Aug 25, 2007

The ultimate decision is, of course, up to you but just be aware if you take this job, you are starting out your new nursing career with a blemish on you. Any little thing that happens will most likely be attributed to your "poor communication" whether it is justified or not. This new nurse manager will then most likely fall back on "Well, I knew from the beginning she had problems in this area, but I gave her a chance anyway" She will then proceed to pat herself on the back for being so fair and nice. Daytonite hit this situation square on the head-RUN away from this environment. I swear that many NMs sell their souls to the devil:devil:. It is the only way I figure they can live with how they treat people. I was actually being groomed to take over a supervisory position and I turned it down because to be successful in this area, you have to play the game and be more concerned with politics.Treating others fairly takes a backseat.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Aug 25, 2007

you guys really think its a pissy fit? the NM was super nice in that interview. after we spoke again and she told me of her concerns, she said "i'm gonna take you on, but I want you to know going into this that we're a team effort here and I don't want you to be standoffish, everyone here is really nice and there's no reason why you can't succeed". she added alot of other comments that were warnings/encouragements. I don't think the DON knows about it, as I sought the interview directly and the transfer request was only put in after the hire. She said I gave her a really nice interview but since my current NM had concerns, it led her to have concerns. you really think my NM is mad at me for transferring? I wouldn't be in the same role anyway. But you guys are right, I was thinking to myself too "why would you still take me on if you have all these concerns?" it just seems to me that the new NM is going off of what the current NM is saying, but then again I don't have the experience you guys do to see through these things. I called the NM and offered her other references, which btw I did not list my NM as a reference, and she said no because she's gonna give me the job. I am going to talk to my current NM to figure out where my downfalls are. I just kinda feel ambushed and there's nothing I can do. Unfortunately this is my only offer at the moment. I'm just surprised all the concerns are brought to my attention now.

There is something you can do-start looking for other opportunities. They are counting on you feeling powerless. If you do take this job and things go badly, please don't give up. Use it as a learning experience. Don't let them make you feel like you are a bad nurse. You're not-you just seem like you aren't aware of how vicious people can be, even if they seem "nice". Always look out for yourself and realize that hospitals are businesses. They will always look after themselves first. LOL-I sound bitter but I'm not. I just got slapped in the face with reality my first year. I don't regret it though because my eyes have been opened, and I can look after MY best interests. Good luck, hon. I hope I'm wrong about all this, BTW!