Hello, everyone out there in the world of allnurses.com I just need to get something that's been bothering me for a while off of my chest. I just want to talk about this issue especially affecting minority nurses. And that issue is that it can be hard to be a nurse of color.
I am part Somoan/part African-American and consider myself Black for the most part. Well, I just feel that after all these years, minority nurses still don't get as much respect as their white colleagues.
Always being mistaken for for support staff even though my name tag boldly states who I am and my credentials. And I even feel that sometimes, patients feel insulted by me being their nurse. It seems like that when I first go into the patient's room, before I can introduce myself properly, they always assume I am a CNA. After I explain that I am their nurse, they seem to loose that "glow". It's like they don't want ME to be their nurse. And when a previous nurse that happens to be white reports how pleasant a patient was, I don't get that "pleasant" behavior from the same patient.
We as nurses know that patients can often be demanding, rude, and downright ridiculous with any nurse. But, to the minority nurses out there, do you sometimes feel that you are being treated with less respect because your a minority? Do you feel like you get treated differently from the other nurses by the same patient?
I am sure that "Savage Inequalities" is a very sobering read, but being an urban black male I must say that we, at time, are our own worst enemy. I am not saying that racism does not exist and that the playing field is not always level. But look at the mindset of todays young black students. Who is at fault because the kids wont do their homework? Is it the schools responsibility to be the lone enforcer of education standards? Why are the parents let off of the hook? Sure we can say the problem stems from years of discrimination and social economic depravity, but are we as a race holding on this "excuse" because the reality of our plight is harder to deal with. If we valued education more than the "bling bling" and doing the latest dance moves, and other non productive ventures maybe we as a race would garner more respect by others. Every time I hear one black kid say to another "you talk like a white boy" or hear of a black kid being ostracized for doing his/her schoolwork and maintaining good grades, we perpetuate the myths and beliefs that has torn us apart as a race for the past 50 years. As African Americans we often forget that other ethnic groups were vilified and excluded from mainstream society (Jewish ethnicity as an example) yet overcame and have come to dominate through hard work and education. Their parents placed a premium on education and hard work so their children could live better lives. Our situation seems in stark contract. We view welfare and public assistance a means to "earn" income with little or no effort and create a cycle of dependency as our children watch and become enamored and trapped in this vicious cycle. Yes we must acknowledge racism as it does exist, but we must examine our failure as a race in preparing our children to adequately deal with this issue.
Thanks for the input, Gerry.
I wanted to point out that Kozol's book doesn't address "racism" per se. Instead it talks about the inner-city educational structure that feeds into the attitude by some that feeds into the devaluing of education.
It's been a long, long time since I read it but some examples he talks about are comparison of the facilities. He compared the school facilities at two different schools in Chicago, one that drew from an affluent area and another that drew primarily from the housing projects and other low-income neighborhoods. The latter schools looked more like prisons while the former looked more like college campuses. On the latter, the bathrooms were often dirty and had malfunctioning fixtures. The latter had problems with leaky roofs. The former had grass-covered fields for playing. The latter were covered in asphalt.
He also went on to talk about the teacher-pay disparities as well as the work environment for the teachers. The former school drew the better teachers, even when those same teachers started out at the latter school. Most sad was that there was a flight of precisely the kinds of teachers that you'd want to keep there: The few black men and women who did go to college and could be such positive role models for their students. Many of the best of them would likewise leave for the better teaching environment (it takes a very selfless person to choose lower pay in a dilapidated building with outdated equipment and textbooks in order to serve the kids who need it most).
Being an urban black man, you can speak with an authority that I never could. You understand the dynamic in a way that I never will. What you say does resonate with me. Being a white guy, though, I tread very carefully with that because that can also be an excuse for not trying to address things like disparity in education funding. Frankly, it seems like I hear lots of excuses on both sides.
I do know that there are a lot of good-hearted people out there trying to make a difference and that we hear a lot more about the problems than we do the folks trying to help.
I will point out that the disparities seem more rooted in socioeconomics than they do in ethnicity. Of course, a much higher percentage of blacks are poor than are whites so there is a strong ethnic correlation.
Your comment about "bling" reminds me of a couple of stories my mom used to tell me about.
My grandmother was an elementary school teacher in the inner city of Richmond, California (even now, a very rough place). Her students were mostly poor, mostly black, and mostly out of the public housing. This was in the late 40's through the early 70's. She would bring her students home with her to spend the night or to have parties and barbeques. Of course, her neighbors weren't too happy. My mom asked her why she did it. Her response: "These kids need to see the world outside of the projects. They need to see that things can be different if they want it to be."
When they would talk about poverty and race issues, my mom would ask my grandmother why, if they were poor, she saw so many (from her Jr. High perspective) fancy, tricked-out Cadillacs cruising around. My grandmother's reply was, "There's not a lot else that they can spend their money on and it's a way to carve out some identity and a "place" in a culture that works against that" Again, this was the 50's. Still, though, it does speak to the cultural momentum that's built into the inner cities.
My grandmother was an awesome lady! She spent her career there because she really felt the calling. My mom also told me about being in high school when there were very high racial tensions. She remembers sometimes being the target of the black-white side of the problem when another black kid would walk by and say, "Leave her alone; that's Mrs. V___'s kid"
I find it very disheartening when I encounter people that think like this. Your frustrations are completely justified and I think it is very sad when people think in that way. It just shows their ignorance. You shouldn't have to work any harder than anyone else to prove yourself. Unfortunately sometimes you do.
Personally, and this may not sound like as big of deal to some (or even silly), but I am discriminated against for having blonde hair. Even though most people kind of joke around with the stereotype of blondes being "dumb" or "ditzy", it is still something that I have to deal with. Although I am an incredibly intelligent woman, it sometimes seems that I have to work twice as hard to prove myself than others might. It is pretty obnoxious when people act like they are shocked when they find out that I am actually intelligent, or even giggle when I walk into a class and whisper "how did she get into this class??"
Sadly, I think it is something that many of us have to deal with in life. Our credibility is often questioned, but it also feels good to prove people wrong and make THEM feel bad for even entertaining these ignorant thoughts.
I find it very disheartening when I encounter people that think like this. Your frustrations are completely justified and I think it is very sad when people think in that way. It just shows their ignorance. You shouldn't have to work any harder than anyone else to prove yourself. Unfortunately sometimes you do.
Personally, and this may not sound like as big of deal to some (or even silly), but I am discriminated against for having blonde hair. Even though most people kind of joke around with the stereotype of blondes being "dumb" or "ditzy", it is still something that I have to deal with. Although I am an incredibly intelligent woman, it sometimes seems that I have to work twice as hard to prove myself than others might. It is pretty obnoxious when people act like they are shocked when they find out that I am actually intelligent, or even giggle when I walk into a class and whisper "how did she get into this class??"
Sadly, I think it is something that many of us have to deal with in life. Our credibility is often questioned, but it also feels good to prove people wrong and make THEM feel bad for even entertaining these ignorant thoughts.
I'm astonished that you're comparing the "struggles" face by blonds with the struggles faced by impoverished minorities (two separate conditions, the sum of which create more difficulty than would either alone).
I have been discriminated against because I am fat and homely. I have also had patients assume I'm everything (housekeeping, cafeteria worker, tech, etc) other than a nurse. I admit, I dress kind of raddy and look very humble and the OB nurse who took care of me when I had my baby asked if I was a "tech" when I mentioned I understood the stress of working in the health care field after she apologized for being out of the room for so long.
Then she looked taken back when I mentioned I was an RN.
I have had patients in home health refuse to have me back. I never got an exact answer as to why but I guess it is because of the way I look.
Even in my personal relationships I am discriminated against. My husband doesn't find me attractive, he never has. He doesn't want me in any pictures, he doesn't even want me to have his last name. I'm a reject to him, but four kids later what is the point in kicking him to the curb now?
I understand how it could feel to be discriminated against because of who you are. My family is very colorful: my husband is Italian and while my kids all look different my oldest son is the most ethnic-looking-dark hair and eyes and dark complected. A couple of weeks ago he mentioned that the only kids who would play with him were the Mexican kids, everyone thinks he is Mexican and the white kids play separate. I say, to he!! with those other kids. I have a neice and nephew who are 1/2 black and a niece and nephew who are 1/2 hispanic and I care for them every bit as much as I care for my white nieces and nephews. In fact, when I think of them their color doesn't factor in at all.
Dear motorcycle mama You're comment made me sad because you are beautiful. No matter what our profession requires ALOT of love and kindness and that causes inner beauty and that shows in most of our faces please don't let anyone make you feel different please grant yourself some of the love and kindness you give to others...
This topic hits very close i am of cuban parents born in miami,fl ... I'm blonde haired and green eyed which in some peoples eyes is a contradiction i have had co-workers innocently say that i couldn't possibly be hispanic and that i look to "white" this comment has been made to me by black/white/hispanic co-workers it makes me sad sometimes because i know that i'm not really considered white by my white coworkers but too white and americanized for my hispanic coworkers... go figure!.. Add into the mix that i'm a 25 i hit racism and ageism.. I use to let it bother me but i'm coming to terms with it i feel bad for them not me.. At the end of the day i don't care what people think I'm me love it or leave it i've realized that we are all individuals i'm proud to be an american, a person, and a nurse at the end of the day i win respect by my kindness and resolve after all it's hard to dislike someone that treat you with kindness, respect, and a smile.. As a hispanic i have often overheard (from coworkers that don't know i'm hispanic) "that they wish all these immigrants would go home" "That we're all lazy stupid mexicans or puerto ricans" It makes me even sadder when it comes from my black coworkers being of a minority themselves..I've even seen racism amongst the jamaican, haitian, and african american nurses.. It's sad that we are this way and i hope one day human nature will change my heart hurts for both the racists and their victims there is so much we can learn from one another if we let go of the hate and the prejudice.
I'm astonished that you're comparing the "struggles" face by blonds with the struggles faced by impoverished minorities (two separate conditions the sum of which create more difficulty than would either alone).[/quote']
So you would consider a person that struggles with being treated unfairly because of the color of their skin more important and justified than one that struggles with the color of their hair? I did not place any more importance on my situation than the situation of the poster. I simply tried to relate with my situation. They are both examples of being discriminated by the way that you look and being treated differently.
Also, I don't recall the original poster mentioning anything about being impoverished.
So you would consider a person that struggles with being treated unfairly because of the color of their skin more important and justified than one that struggles with the color of their hair? I did not place any more importance on my situation than the situation of the poster. I simply tried to relate with my situation. They are both examples of being discriminated by the way that you look and being treated differently.
Also, I don't recall the original poster mentioning anything about being impoverished.
to answer your question: yes!
i DO consider discrimination against the color of skin more important than the discrimination re the color of one's hair.
the blonde stereotype is reversible.
all it takes is applying your intellgence, and a sl thick skin...along w/a healthy dose of assertiveness.
that will suffice in ending the stereotype.
not so, for poc.
it takes a heck of a lot more than intelligence and confidence, to succeed in this country.
it is a long and tenuous battle to try and prove oneself as worthy and capable.
up until very recently, i thought that poc had the law on their side:
and as a result, discrimination wouldn't be an issue.
but i was only focusing on the legal aspects, and not acknowledging that racism is so pervasive, even when one is legally protected.
what good is it to anyone, if a poc can professionally promote themself, and it only breeds tolerance rather than true acceptance and support?
that's a rampant problem that very much exists today.
our society has a long way to go before we will ever achieve true harmony.
i would much rather fight the injustices re the color of my hair, than fight for my right to be valued as much as the next man.
i DO consider discrimination against the color of skin more important than the discrimination re the color of one's hair.
the blonde stereotype is reversible.
all it takes is applying your intellgence, and a sl thick skin...along w/a healthy dose of assertiveness.
that will suffice in ending the stereotype.
not so, for poc.
it takes a heck of a lot more than intelligence and confidence, to succeed in this country.
it is a long and tenuous battle to try and prove oneself as worthy and capable.
up until very recently, i thought that poc had the law on their side:
and as a result, discrimination wouldn't be an issue.
but i was only focusing on the legal aspects, and not acknowledging that racism is so pervasive, even when one is legally protected.
what good is it to anyone, if a poc can professionally promote themself, and it only breeds tolerance rather than true acceptance and support?
that's a rampant problem that very much exists today.
our society has a long way to go before we will ever achieve true harmony.
i would much rather fight the injustices re the color of my hair, than fight for my right to be valued as much as the next man.
leslie
Yes, I understand what you are saying and I mostly agree. You have to understand that I am responding to a post about discrimination based on appearance. Please do not read so much into it. My post is much like the person that wrote about being discriminated against due to being "fat and homely"...There are so many people that deal with discrimination, and it is not always just on a racial level. Just trying to make that clear.
So you would consider a person that struggles with being treated unfairly because of the color of their skin more important and justified than one that struggles with the color of their hair? I did not place any more importance on my situation than the situation of the poster. I simply tried to relate with my situation. They are both examples of being discriminated by the way that you look and being treated differently.
Also, I don't recall the original poster mentioning anything about being impoverished.
I guess to me, comparing the "dumb blond" caricature to the attitudes face by blacks and other folks of color seems to trivialize the latter.
Why does it seem that way to me? I don't know. Maybe it's because I've been around quite a number of people in my life who really looked down on blacks or latinos but have never heard anyone seriously suggest that hair color had anything to do with intelligence. My black friend has, he tells me, experienced some of what's been related here; my blond wife never has. His daughter and mine are best friends - I think our families are much more likely to have to explain ugliness to them based on his girl's dark skin color than my girl's blond hair. Just my own little limited experience.
I don't mean to trivialize your experience. I've not walked one single millimeter in your shoes and I don't presume to know what it's like to be a blond woman and certainly not to be you.
It just popped into my head why I feel that your comparison trivializes the situation: I seriously doubt that anybody's been beaten or killed for being blond. I doubt that they've had dogs sicced on them. I doubt that they've been spat upon or had the police pull them over just because of their blond hair.
And you're right - the OP was not about socioeconomics; my mind went there because I was thinking about Kozol's book and the correlations between ethnicity and socioeconomics. My apologies.
Sigh.
It just saddens me because I really took to heart MLK's statement about his dream of people being judged by the content of their character and we are soooo far from that happening. Probably not in my lifetime; maybe in my kid's.
I'm glad to see this thread continue, though I'd like to hear more from the OP's perspective, since that's the topic of this thread.
I do have a comment though: I think that a lot of the "but WE'RE discriminated against too!" posts are a knee jerk reaction to guilt that's been drummed into us from an early age. I don't believe most of those posts are designed to take attention away from the very important topic at hand. From my perspective as a white female, I know that if I allow myself to really THINK HARD about prejudice against AA's in this country, it makes me feel just awful. That's a hard feeling to take.
My family came to this country from Europe in the early 1900's, were dirt poor coming through Ellis Island, and had to struggle for food every day. They never owned slaves, and were too busy dodging their own challenges to attack anyone else. But because I am white, I feel lumped together with the white people who DID do these awful horrible things to an entire group of people. I feel guilty on behalf of my color, if you will.
It's easier to play "I can top that", or push the issue into the past and neglect the still-ongoing issues of today, than to think about it objectively (even when it's hurful to do so). I don't WANT anyone to have been treated like that, I wish I could go back and make it right, change the past so that people were't like that. I want to go back and undo the Holocaust too but because I'm not German, I don't get that same guilt feeling, if that makes sense.
That said - and I hope it made some sense, I have two questions for the OP and other AA nurses, since I work in a VERY diverse area:
1. If so much of the discrimination you face is insidious, rather than overt, how can a fellow nurse recognize such instances, and even avoid making them accidently. Are there differences in your experience from co-workers vs. patients/families?
2. What can others, who WANT to help change things, do to help get rid of this issue, keeping in mind that most of us are not in charge or supervisory positions.
This is a great topic, and I think if we all stare it straight in the eye, however uncomfortable it is, together we can make some much-needed changes.
Specializes in ob high risk, labor and delivery, postp.
I agree absolutely that NO ONE should be discriminated against. I grew up with people around me of all colors--red, brown,yellow, black and WHITE and I think we should treat everyone with fairness and dignity. That being said, and I must admit that I read only the first and last pages of this posting, I'd like to point out that WHITE is a color too. Why do I say that? Because I don't like the terminology being used..."""" of color. Whether its people of color, women of color or nurses of color. I once had a long discussion about this topic with two friends..one who happens to be African-American and one who is Hispanic. When I said that I thought the term was exclusive and stereoptypical they both said that they didn't find it so, but were surprised when I said that they were not understanding my point! I meant, rather, that it was offensive to me, since it unfairly then excluded me from being a "person of color". My friend, who is African american said that she understood that indeed I was MANY colors..tan,pink, greenish blue(where my veins show through),as well as white..that it referred more to the "darkness" of one's skin. They agreed that this was why they were both "persons of color", until we noticed that my skin color is actually darker than my hispanic friend!!
I'm not trying to trivialize discrimination, I know it is unfortunately out there. This is obviously just plain wrong. I'm also not of the opinion that placing people into boxes and labeling them is a good thing. For example, I happen to be of Italian descent. I don't consider myself Italian-American but just American. I have been discriminated against, on the basis of my color...by various groups. I lived in a neighborhood once where we were on of the few "white" families. My best friend's family told her that she and her brother should stay away from me. Riding my bike or walking around the block was impossible because we would be called names. This was immediately after my father had retired from the Army and it came as a complete shock to me! The only other time that we had been the recipients of such hatred was when the "peace protesters" in the 60's chose to make even the school bus bringing us back to the base a target for their veggie throwing and such. Years later, I had a boyfriend who was Hispanic. We tended to stay away from his friends and family because they ALL hated me..because I wasn't hispanic. (ironically back then hispanic was considered white but I digress) Yet, in other places I was often mistaken for being hispanic ..let's face it people from Spain (hiSPANic0 and people from Italy have very similar coloring, languages, and cultures..in fact Italians used to be considered to be Latina in the past but it is no longer politically correct..we've been disenfranchised from that label. I actually was also discriminated against by a boss when I was a teenager who thought that I was hispanic because of my coloring and that I had many friends who were Puerto Rican as well as my boyfriend at that time. We only went by our first names so my lack of a spanish surname was not evident. Anyway, she always gave us the worst assignments. Ironically, another friend of mine married someone whose last name was "rodrigues" who was from Spain. My friend was a blue eyed blond. She ended up getting a full scholarship offer from a college because the minority designation at the time was "spanish surname" so she qualified. They didn't actually meet her until after it was too late, and couldn't rescind it. This is one reason that I am against minority scholarships..I think that such things should be colorblind. And don't try to tell me that that is retribution for "white" people getting so much more because I have worked for everything I have. Despite great grades, test scores and financial need I had to pay the entire cost of my education myself. The same goes for my children. Meanwhile, my daughter has two good friends..both hispanic who grew up going to the same schools and in the same or better neighborhood. The girls parents make about the same amount as we do, the boy's make much more. Despite my daughter having more extracurricular activities, better grades, more challenging courses (AP and honors), and superior SAT scores..they both received almost full scholarships to area colleges. This is just plain wrong...who is being judged on skin color here?
Anyway, I have seen discrimination from both sides and it is just plain wrong from any direction. How about when people ask what race we are..we just say HUMAN.
Ironically, another friend of mine married someone whose last name was "rodrigues" who was from Spain. My friend was a blue eyed blond. She ended up getting a full scholarship offer from a college because the minority designation at the time was "spanish surname" so she qualified. They didn't actually meet her until after it was too late, and couldn't rescind it.
My cousin-in-law is a blue-eyed blonde Puerto Rican. His family settled there from Spain a long time ago and if they intermarried with the indigenes or slaves the recessive genes have surfaced. He is certainly Latino.
Of course we white people are a lot of different colors and of course it is ridiculous to lump people into a box based on that. But it is done every day, and will continue to be.
Specializes in ob high risk, labor and delivery, postp.
My point was that "minority" scholarships and affirmative actions programs are supposedly established to promote diversity and provide opportunities for the disadvantaged. The fact that my friend who was NOT hispanic could qualify for that scholarship, and that others that are NOT disadvantaged can qualify for scholarships even if they really don't need them just demonstrates how ridiculous these practices are.
Of course, these are positive programs (at least for those who qualify) while discrimination is at the other end of the same spectrum. I think we shouldn't label peoople at all. Doing so for ANY reason just seems wrong to me. You should be given neither advantage nor disadvantage on the basis of your skin color or ethnic background. One article that I read said that many African-Americans of more needy backgrounds are losing out in scholarships and college admissions to the children of foreign nationals who are in this country for their occupations. These children are often in the upper echelons for income level but qualify due to their race. This shows the falsity of the argument that they provide economically disadvantaged inner-city students with opportunity. I also think that more scholarships (think about what the root word means) should be given for actually doing well in your schoolwork. My husband and I are sacrificing our retirements to put our kids through school. We don't qualify for federal or state grants or subsidized loans because of our income level. Therefore, we are forced to take out loans to pay the tuition. Our savings pretty much only lasted for one year of a private university tuition. I realize that we could have insisted that our children attend state colleges, but when they have done everything that you've asked by being exemplary students, I think that they deserve the reward of going to the college of their choice. They are both getting straight As..so they continue to strive hard to be the best...its just annoying that our country rewards money based on color rather than actual scholarly attributes. And as far as providing more "diversity", if this is so over-riding-ly important, than why is a nation like Japan which is so homogenous doing so very well both in education of its citizens and the world economic arena? I'm not against diversity, just the artificial creation of it.
Music in My Heart
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Thanks for the input, Gerry.
I wanted to point out that Kozol's book doesn't address "racism" per se. Instead it talks about the inner-city educational structure that feeds into the attitude by some that feeds into the devaluing of education.
It's been a long, long time since I read it but some examples he talks about are comparison of the facilities. He compared the school facilities at two different schools in Chicago, one that drew from an affluent area and another that drew primarily from the housing projects and other low-income neighborhoods. The latter schools looked more like prisons while the former looked more like college campuses. On the latter, the bathrooms were often dirty and had malfunctioning fixtures. The latter had problems with leaky roofs. The former had grass-covered fields for playing. The latter were covered in asphalt.
He also went on to talk about the teacher-pay disparities as well as the work environment for the teachers. The former school drew the better teachers, even when those same teachers started out at the latter school. Most sad was that there was a flight of precisely the kinds of teachers that you'd want to keep there: The few black men and women who did go to college and could be such positive role models for their students. Many of the best of them would likewise leave for the better teaching environment (it takes a very selfless person to choose lower pay in a dilapidated building with outdated equipment and textbooks in order to serve the kids who need it most).
Being an urban black man, you can speak with an authority that I never could. You understand the dynamic in a way that I never will. What you say does resonate with me. Being a white guy, though, I tread very carefully with that because that can also be an excuse for not trying to address things like disparity in education funding. Frankly, it seems like I hear lots of excuses on both sides.
I do know that there are a lot of good-hearted people out there trying to make a difference and that we hear a lot more about the problems than we do the folks trying to help.
I will point out that the disparities seem more rooted in socioeconomics than they do in ethnicity. Of course, a much higher percentage of blacks are poor than are whites so there is a strong ethnic correlation.
Your comment about "bling" reminds me of a couple of stories my mom used to tell me about.
My grandmother was an elementary school teacher in the inner city of Richmond, California (even now, a very rough place). Her students were mostly poor, mostly black, and mostly out of the public housing. This was in the late 40's through the early 70's. She would bring her students home with her to spend the night or to have parties and barbeques. Of course, her neighbors weren't too happy. My mom asked her why she did it. Her response: "These kids need to see the world outside of the projects. They need to see that things can be different if they want it to be."
When they would talk about poverty and race issues, my mom would ask my grandmother why, if they were poor, she saw so many (from her Jr. High perspective) fancy, tricked-out Cadillacs cruising around. My grandmother's reply was, "There's not a lot else that they can spend their money on and it's a way to carve out some identity and a "place" in a culture that works against that" Again, this was the 50's. Still, though, it does speak to the cultural momentum that's built into the inner cities.
My grandmother was an awesome lady! She spent her career there because she really felt the calling. My mom also told me about being in high school when there were very high racial tensions. She remembers sometimes being the target of the black-white side of the problem when another black kid would walk by and say, "Leave her alone; that's Mrs. V___'s kid"
Thanks again for sharing your perspective.