Is this any way to retain nurses?

Nurses Activism

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Soooo..... We've been unionized with our state nurses assoc since 1983, with significant monetary and professional standard contract gains ever since, and once again are in negotiations with the hospital for a new contract. Is it just us, or does anyone else get the impression that this hospital is doing all it can to drive our nurses out of their jobs???......

On the first day of the first negotiating session, in its opening statements, the hospital refused to recognize some of the RNs on our negotiating team - which had been elected by the rest of the staff RNs to represent them - and refused to release them for negotiations, even though it is required to do so according to our contract. So, in the first 5 minutes of the first negotiating session, the hospital committed an illegal act & we had to stop to file a grievance for arbitration. Nice way to set the tone.

They canceled the next session and gave us dates to meet only once a week. They have given us dates into September, so they apparently have no plans to settle this contract quickly. It expired in June.

At the following session, they announced that recruitment and retention is their focus - BUT they specified that they meant recruitment & retention of new grads. In keeping with that, they proposed to cut the experienced RNs' tuition reimbursement in half & apply that money to establishing sign on bonuses for new grads. They blatantly said they want to be able to take money from experienced nurses & give it to new hires who already start with a base of almost $60,000/yr right out of school. Nice slap in the face for the nurses who already work here.

Then our hospital is refusing to implement retirement benefits that our union RNs have obtained at other area hospitals and, to add insult to injury, is also insisting on cutting its contributions to our retirement annuity plan in half. They also do not want to allow new hires to be vested in 3 years, as the rest of us are, and want to create a 2-tier system by forcing new hires to wait 5 yrs for vesting. So they can work 5 yrs worth of wasted time with nothing added to their retirement funds.

It's insisting on reducing our medical benefits and wants to make us start paying for them too. And it wants to deny new hires the immediate medical benefits they are currently entitled to - forcing them to work more than a month with no benefits at all. Theyll just be out of luck if they get hit by a car on the way to work. What incentive is there for a new nurse to work here when they are more valued at the next facility?

The hospital also wants the right to change our medical benefits plan and providers whenever it feels like it. It's prevented from doing that now.

It's also refusing pay increases in experience, education, charge, shift, or preceptor differentials and offered only a 2% raise. It wants to cut our continuing ed days and reimbursements. It got rid of all the clinical nurse specialists and expects the staff RNs to assume that role for new nurses - without compensation and without a decrease in the RN's pt load. It refused to increase pay for outside experience and insists on being allowed to continue paying a newly hired experienced nurse for up to only 10 years of her outside experience, while we have gotten hospitals all around us to do away with that ceiling and they now pay the nurse for ALL her years in nursing. This hospital also wants to cap the salaries of its own long-time nurses and stop their current increases paid for anything over 25 years at this facility - no matter how long they work there. Again, not competitive with our other hospitals that now recognize and compensate the RN for all her years in nursing. Whats the incentive for an experienced nurse to work here when she is valued more at the next hospital?

The hospital is violating the contract restrictions on mandatory ot pending the arbitration hearing on the matter. It also wants cuts in sick time and retribution against us if we use a sick day. THEN, if we have a sick day, but work an over time shift in that same pay period - mandatory or voluntary - they want to only pay us straight time for the OT and not count the sickday hours in the calculation. We envision the supervisors searching the rolls for anyone who had a sick day that week. We forsee that that's the person who will be mandated to work OT so the hospital can save on the time and a half payroll expense.

There is a punitive atmosphere of intimidation and nurses are suddenly being disciplined for every little thing (like thats really going to scare us into backing down). For example, a unit secretary didnt do her paper work "in a timely fashion" so the NURSE was disciplined. An neurosurgical RN was floated to a med-surg floor & paired with a nurses aid who was floated from mother/baby. An order was written for a lab draw on a pt at change of shift. Lab techs have been laid off & the nurses aid is expected to do those jobs. The RN was still busy with pt care. The mother/baby aid was not certified to draw labs so the RN delegated the lab draw to the aide coming onto the next shift. She gave report, alerted the next RN, stayed late to finish her charting, reminded the aid & the RN about the labs, and went home. She was then written up for not drawing the labs herself before she left.

The grievances will get all these ridiculous disciplines thrown out, but the effect that nonsense like this has on morale is not so easily fixed. One nurse reported a patient safety problem in his unit to our union delegate. That nurse was then harrassed by management and fired. That was illegal and he will win his job back, along with back pay once the arbitration is heard - but he will not accept the job back - and we lost another excellent RN. There are all these grievances, arbitrations, and Unfair Labor Practice charges filed with the NLRB up the wazzoooo, but the hospital doesnt seem to care.

It's demanding that we allow nurses to be disciplined if there are any doctor complaints about them or their unit or if their unit's Press Ganey patient satisfaction surveys are not improved - even though doctors' and patients' complaints usually stem from the fact that there isnt enough staff - and that is not the nurses fault - but the hospital is demanding that we actually agree to hold ourselves responsible for it. It also wants to be able to force the nurses who have received complaints or nurses on units that have not improved their customer satisfaction surveys to attend "customer satisfaction" courses - on our own time and at our own expense as punishment.

In this current round of contract negotiations, the hospital is even demanding the elimination of our clinical divisions and wants to be allowed to have unrestricted floating, irregardless of whether the RN has training in the area she is floated to or not. Thats something we did away with 20 years ago! But the hospital wants it back. It's refusing to implement 12 hr flextime on units that dont already have it, even though our contract allowed for alternative work schedules and required the hospital to consider it on any unit where the RNs want it. Although they agreed to that long ago, the hospital has refused to abide by it - another violation - and told us to "take it to arbitration".

Ok. Done.

It also wants to change our hard-won staffing ratios - because there is no state law that says they must have staffing ratios. (our union's nurses wrote the bill for that state law, got it into the legislature, but it hasnt yet been passed, therefore the hospital is not yet forced to provide staffing ratios by law). So, they want the critical care RN-to-pt staffing ratio changed from 1:2 to make it 1:3. They want the med-surg and oncology ratio to go up to 1:8/9. They want the L&D ratio to be 1:2 instead of 1:1. They accused the nursing staff of slacking off on the job and think we dont have enough work to do to justify our salaries if we dont have that many patients to be responsible for. Instead of instituting measures that would make the place one that nurses want to work in, being able to attract, hire, and keep the staff we need, the assistant VP of Human Resources shrugged his shoulders and actually stated "We dont have the staff for the current ratios. They need to be changed because we dont have the staff. If you force us to comply with your ratios, we'll just mandate YOU with ot to meet them".

Cant even call that a "hidden" threat.

With all the media attention on why nurses are leaving hospital jobs, youd think this kind of attitude towards nurses would be past us & administration would be eager to find ways to bring us back to the bedside. No such reality here.

Why would any nurse want to work at my hospital? Maybe the fact that they wont doesnt matter. The hospital is also demanding to eliminate our entire long-standing job security clause from our contract. Hmmm... does that mean Lay-offs are planned??

After hearing all these proposals, I thought they were joking. Our jaws hit the floor when we realized they werent. We asked if they read the newspapers lately and if they knew what the reasons were that RNs do not want to work at the bedsides anymore.

The corporation VP told us to our faces: "This is a business. We have to run it economically and do whats best for the business. We are not going to lose in business just for some RNs. If we dont have business - YOU dont have a job."

We responded:"Without nurses, YOU dont have a business".

And that was the end of that negotiations session.

I cant believe that they actually had the audacity to seriously make these kinds of demands of us in this time of bedside nurse shortages - and in the same breath state they are "focusing on retention". How is any of this going to attract nurses & keep them working here? Its just going to drive them straight to the hospital around the corner or down the street, where the RNs are in the same union and the hospital administration there does read the newspapers.

Bear in mind that if we were not a union, the administration could have made all these changes already all by itself & we'd already be living with it all. But since we ARE a union, they cant do any of it unless we agree. And we dont. The hospital so far will not change its position or even listen to reason, so the nurses are already demanding that our union take a strike vote to make it listen. This is how hospitals provoke and cause nurses strikes.

Our hospital just posted about 30 vacant RN positions. Some had been filled just a few months ago but those nurses have already left. And it thinks that while its doing all of the above, sign-on bonuses for new grads, with money stolen from experienced nurses, are going to make a difference.

The hospital has the attitude it has towards nurses, makes the kinds of contract proposals and demands that it has just made, and then cant understand why it cant fill the spots & keep them filled.

Well... duh.....

I am a staff RN in the ICU and am on the negotiating team. Yesterday I kept getting called to the phone to take calls from staff nurses all over the hospital wanting to make it clear that, if the hospital doesnt move off its stance, the nurses are ready to take a strike vote & authorize our union to schedule a strike, rather than allow any of the hospitals demands as they are. (The union takes direction and its orders from the staff nurses - it's not the other way around)

Another negotiating session is tomorow.

I just cant wait to hear what the hospital has come up with to show how much it disrespects & devalues us next.

Perhaps you should seriously consider "bringing in" new negotiators or getting new ones from you staff. Again, new face, new voice, new attitude, etc., it really does have the chance of changing the tone a bit. That is why I would say someone new from the outside. From the way this sounds, what do you have to lose?!?!

We dont "bring in" negotiators. The staff RNs nominated and voted for the colleagues they want representing them at the table. The staff RNs are the ones who say who negotiates for them. And besides, we dont change the team midway thru.

If managements hostile, obstructionist attitude continues, THEY will be the ones who will have to change their negotiating team. We've had to have the corporation remove someone from their team once before. And we had the Board take control of negotiations once too. Hopefully it wont get that far this time. Im not worried about negotiations. We're giving them the benefit of the doubt and recognizing that most of what theyre doing is just putting on a show. Theyll settle down soon enough and seriously get to work. We'll see.

Listen guys, you have some great ideas for the long run, but youre missing the point. This administration has no use for experienced RNs. Period. No matter what the data says, no matter what we prove - like the fact that they have spent so much on overtime that they could have created 55 new FTE RN positions with all that money - etc, for now they just continue their disrespect and devaluation of nurses and ignore all the news reports about whats caused this mass exodus of RNs from the bedside, ignore all the recent studies about how staffing and RN care directly impacts on pt outcomes, complications & deaths, and ignore the data proving that we are more cost effective in the long run, etc.

But we're there for the duration to make them see the error of their ways. Discussions will continue. There is no impasse. There is no need for a strike vote yet. They will come around in the end cause they want to stay in business.

Whats just so unbelievable is that they choose to go this tired-old route in this current climate of shortages and still think they will be able to fill their vacant positions. Most of what theyre doing is just posturing and, as the man inferred, playing the game of negotiations. Half of their proposals will probably be withdrawn since HR has already admitted they have no intention of actually getting them and werent serious about them when drafting them.

So then why do they bother to present those kinds of proposals in the first place & go on the attack on nurses professional concerns (like staffing & floating to areas we are not qualified for), showing the nurses how little they think of them right from the beginning? Its not all about money. Why deliberately cause the nurses to get all riled up over how much they are being disrespected, demoralize them some more, and create more tensions between the RNs and administration? Because maybe then a lot of highly paid experienced nurses will get fed up enough to quit and the hospital can then fill their place with lower paid new grads who dont know any better yet. And nurses from over-seas who wont complain if they want to stay in this country.

Dont you see? It doesnt matter what we argue. Theyre playing a game. They have an AGENDA. Retaining experienced (expensive) nurses is not it. And thats the point of this thread

Thats why we have specialists from our professional RN union there assisting us. A labor lawyer and an RN who is also an RN labor specialist. They've already obtained cost-outs from the union pension board and the union health benefits administrator on the changes we need. We quantify everything in all our other proposals too because with each one the hospital asks whats it going to cost. And we have to be able to answer that. You cant just go in there & say I WANT. GIMME. (thats NY-ese for "Give Me"). You have to also recognize that the hospital doesnt have a bottomless pit of money. Some of our proposals will cost them nothing.

Believe me, how to negotiate is not the problem. We know how. We've receive training, and workshops and CEU classes on it all once elected to the team. And we have the expertise of our professional state assoc union resources to help with the legal, financial and other advice & work that needs to be done. I really wasnt asking about what to do with these negotiations. I was just making a point about the hospital talking out of both sides of their face --- "we want to retain nurses - so we're going to make demands that will cause them to flee".

The problem is not the contract or the negotiations. The problem is the fact that in this time of nurses bolting from the bedsides, here is yet another hospital administration that is trying to spit in their faces --- at the same time its saying its "doing everything" it can to attract them --- but its refusing to recognize how it is causing the loss of RNs by its own attitude.

And their behavior at these negotiations sessions just proves the point of their contradiction.

AINZ>>>>

This story illustrates my point very well. If we (nursing) rely on labor unions or nursing unions or any kind of union, it only reinforces and perpetuates the notion that we are common hourly manual labor, a line item expense that must be controlled. We may need unions for the short term but that is not the answer.

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REPLY to AINZ,

I feel that the whole premise you have here is total nonsense. You are blaming unionized nurses for contributing to the reality that management treats nurses like "hourly manual labor"! That's too funny for words.

In the state of Texas there is no nurses union. Surprise, but management treats nurse here like hourly manual labor. too. Worse than in California even!

It never surprises me how many silly excuses some nurses have for siding with management that constantly kicks nurses in the teeth. Could it just be that these pro-company nurses subconsciously do it as a self-defense measure, hoping that the worst abuse gets thrown at all those nurses not ready to pledge allegiance to the company?

Specializes in NICU, PICU, PCVICU and peds oncology.

jt, here in Alberta, we're facing a similar impasse in negotiations. Because we have socialized medicine, we have a single payor and in provinces like ours, we have regional health authorities who are the single employer. Our health care system is administered by the province at the top end.

Our contract expired on March 31. Negotiations began in January, with each party presenting their versions of changes to the contract. They were miles apart. Management wanted to institute over 30 roll-backs, including changing the hours of work so we would be paid for fewer minutes per shift while still putting in the same amount of time. They want to decrease the ratio of days to nights for shift workers. They want the power to dictate employees to permanent nights, permanent evenings or nights/evenings. They aren't happy with having us float unit-to-unit, they want us to float between facilities (after all, we work for the region, not the facility... :( ) as well as region-wide. To make this easier, they want to redefine "unit" to mean anything they think will work, could be that a unit is the whole region! On top of that they want to be able to move a nurse from one facility to another permanently, within 100 km (62 miles) of their original unit, with no limit on how many of these moves they can inflict on an individual. Some of our regions extend from one border to the other, so a progressive shift east-to-west is possible with the nurse ending up hundreds of miles from home. :eek:

They want to eliminate the requirement for a RN/RPN to be "in charge" of a unit. Some areas can be adequately managed by an RT, a social worker or a physiotherapist, they say. Nor would they have to pay an "in charge" premium to anyone. They want to change the definition of 'weekend" to decrease the number of hours off as well as the number of hours they pay shift premiums for. They want to pay part time nurses straight time for mandatory OT. They want to assign vacations and to eliminate the seniority implications from vacation scheduling. There are other clauses too wordy to include here without sending you all into a coma! :zzzzz

Then there are the hits to our benefits. They want part-time nurses to pay more for their portion of benefits costs. They want part time nurses working less than 40% FTE to have no supplementary benefits such as dental and eye care. The list goes on and on.

A number of their changes include a flagrant attack on the our rights to act collectivley. They want to be able to negotiate with individuals and make side deals outside the contract. :uhoh3: They want to extend the time taken to resolve grievances with no requirement for union representation of the grieving party, and to increase the window for disciplinary action, ie to weeks or months after an infraction. :uhoh3: They also want to limit the union's ability to protect members from occupational health and safety hazards and professional liabilities.

After some time at the table without any real meeting of the minds, the province ordered the matter to mediation. The mediator was selected by the health minister, who is also the top dog of the management team. At the same time, a gag order was placed on the proceedings, so we cannot elicit the support of the public without violating the order. The mediator submitted the first part of his recommendations recently and guess what... he's recommending that the employer's package be accepted almost unchanged, while ignoring the union's views on everything. Go figure. His recommendations are totally unacceptable to every nurse who has seen them. Striking is not a viable option because nurses cannot strike legally in Alberta. Things are going to get ugly here. You watch. :angryfire:

No nurse, young or old is of value any longer in my facility, never was this way prior to this year, when the CEO's large bonuses grow by the financial stability of the facility.

Won't close beds, taking away perks, OT bonus, working you unsafely, then sending out the natzi's to hound you, your every move if you dare to file a complaint. Refusal to close beds. I work with 4 other nurses, the second most senior has 2 years in, the other two are BRAND NEW plus we have one slot open.

So I am short staffed, with half of my staff brand spanking new, patients dying, meds missed, no mentoring to the new staff because I'm watching all 10 patients, the 3 that I'm legally liable for, plus the 7 other I'm morally liable for. NO ONE CARES. The staff is too exhausted to fight, they just give up and eventually leave.

Management talks a beautiful speach about shared leadership, committes, on and on...... only because they wish Magnet status.

No results from the staff are occurring, we're getting stone walled from every angle and turn.

This IS NOT a union issue, jt's problem is nation wide, it is the reason for our shortage.

Until John Q public gets outraged from high insurance premiums with poor and substandard hospital care and speaks up demanding better, it won't change.

Where is AARP?? One of the nations biggest lobby's, the elderly are suffering in hospitals due to mistakes, short staffing, waiting long amounts of time for basic nursing.... have they spoken up??

our 'coustomers" need to form a collective bargining unit and demand better from hospital administrations nation wide. Then....

Heck, Mc Donalds screws up our order and we'll demand the manager and complain.... why is the public quiet about their healthcare???

Perhaps looking at this as nursings SOLE responsibility to fix, is a view from the wrong angle.... IMHO

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If the mediator insists you accept those terms, every RN in that region should just resign en mass on the same day. Wake them up to the public health crisis they are causing by treating RNs like hired hands.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, PCVICU and peds oncology.

The final mediator's report was presented to both sides last week. It continued in the same vein as the first installment. Not one of the union's proposals was given more than a cursory glance. The vast majority of the Provincial Health Authorities of Alberta's proposals were approved of with no or only minor changes. The mediator had no problem trashing the "superior provisions" angle of amalgamating a number of contracts into a province wide one. He also had no qualms over trampling individual rights by agreeing the PHAA should be allowed to dictate permanent nights and assign vacations. And he didn't hesitate to agree wholeheartedly with the mobility issues.:eek:

United Nurses of Alberta Negotiations Update:

"The mediator has strongly stated that his recommendations constitute the most likely outcome should the parties go to compulsory arbitration--a process where all outstanding bargaining issues are determined by an outside party appointed by the Alberta government. This is a confirmation that proceeding to arbitration would NOT be in the interest of the nurses of Alberta."

Because we got a big raise in our last negotiations, many nurses are afraid the public will pay attention only to the money and ignore the working conditions, and thus not support us should we go out on an illegal strike. They are very much afraid we will be legislated back to work with a legislated contract, collective and personal fines and perhaps criminal records. :(The premier, Ralph Klein:devil:, has already made statements to the effect that should we strike, we have that to look forward to. The government will use all avenues available to them to punish us.:nono:

The mass resignation ploy was tried in Nova Scotia last year. The employers simply refused to accept the resignations, the nurses were legislated back to work and they got stuck with a dog of a contract. In Alberta, the Labour Relations Law considers any job action undertaken by two or more persons to be strike action. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Life could get very difficult for all of us here in Alberta very soon. :chair:

This is half serious:

Tell them you are going to work in California.

We would love to have you!

100% serious is the need to inform the public of how important nursing care is. Are patients admitted to a hospital for anything other than the need for NURSING care?

Specializes in NICU, PICU, PCVICU and peds oncology.

There are already a large number of Canadian nurses woking in the States, either as travellers or as permanent implants. Somehow I doubt that threat would mean much. After the last big raise we got, nurses flocked here from all over Canada. They think the nursing shortage is over now based on recruitment numbers. They never look at the retention side of it.

And you're 100% right. People go into hospital for nursing care. The need for nursing care is what keeps them there. I've already written to the local papers (now that the publication ban has been lifted ;) ) pointing out how the mobility clause would impact on patient care. I used our world-renowned pediatric cardiac surgeon as an example of how unfair it is to nurses. No one would ever expect him to deliver babies on his slow days. Why should our specialized skills be any less valued? My letter appeared in today's Edmonton Journal (with a few minor editorial changes:rolleyes: ) alongside another decrying the assault on part time nurses. At least now we can get our views heard!

Originally posted by janfrn

I've already written to the local papers (now that the publication ban has been lifted ;) ) pointing out how the mobility clause would impact on patient care. I used our world-renowned pediatric cardiac surgeon as an example of how unfair it is to nurses. No one would ever expect him to deliver babies on his slow days. Why should our specialized skills be any less valued? My letter appeared in today's Edmonton Journal (with a few minor editorial changes:rolleyes: ) alongside another decrying the assault on part time nurses. At least now we can get our views heard!

Good for you!

Best wishes to all you nurses and your patients!

Specializes in NICU, PICU, PCVICU and peds oncology.

Thanks. I'll keep the board posted on developments as they occur.

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