Is it true?!?! Say it aint so...

gstrahan · Feb 25, 2006

And I understand about having to know what it's like to be on the other end of that speculum...but I think a note from one's OB/GYN stating that you've had NUMEROUS Pap smears over the years should suffice.

Why do you have to know what it's like to be on the other side of the speculum? What do male nurses have to endure to meet this requirement? This is ridiculous and I would absolutley refuse to participate. If they refuse to let me continue with my studies to graduation, I would sue the he!! out of them.

Gina

Gompers, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2006

Why do you have to know what it's like to be on the other side of the speculum? What do male nurses have to endure to meet this requirement? This is ridiculous and I would absolutley refuse to participate. If they refuse to let me continue with my studies to graduation, I would sue the he!! out of them.
Gina

The reason I stated that was because many programs say this is their thought behind making students do inappropriate things to each other. By inappropriate I mean having to strip down to underwear to give each other bed baths, doing breast exams on each other, and now this new twist, doing pelvic exams. These schools say that in those situations, your patients will feel vulnerable, so by putting the students into their place, they'll have more compassion for them. I think it's ridiculous. I'm just stating facts here. There is an old post or two on this message board about exactly this topic.

The funny thing is that these schools often don't make the male students do testicular exams on each other. What a double standard!!! :angryfire

Nemhain · Feb 26, 2006

Med schools hire models like some of the schools mentioned on this thread. They are actually trained to help the examiner (I don't know whether they are doing it right). I just don't understand why all nursing schools don't adopt this method. It seems more effective and more professional.
I also think that there is no way a school can force you to let a classmate give you a pelvic. What about the women who have been sexually assaulted? What about women who have an STI that they don't want shared with their classmates? What about women who are virgins? Health information is protected everywhere else (thank you HIPPA). Does a school have the right force you to share it with your peers? I personally think this practice is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
(Sorry about the soapbox but I was mortified when I heard my school did this)

I totally agree. Any nursing instructor who requires this of her students should also be made to take off her own clothes and let all of her students see "the goods" and give her a breast/pelvic exam. There is a good time for NP students to practice breast/pelvic exams, and it's called CLINICALS.

Let's see...I went through an ADN program without putting a foley cath in one of my fellow students, yet I was perfectly okay the first time I did it on a patient!!! Sheesh!

NHRNmomof3 · Mar 8, 2006

I can't believe this. I agree this should be left to clinicals and manicans. The HIPPA issue is a very good point today. I have 3 children, including twins. For those of you that are not aware the standard of care for ALL twin deliveries be in the OR, lady partsl or section. I work in a small rural hospital. When I had my twins at 630 in the morning I was whisped to the OR full of 10 people. Believe me I have been completely exposed and at the time modesty was gone, but it was the circumstances and I was okay with it, but I would not be okay with fellow students practicing on me. It would be better as a profession to have a free GYN screening day to underserved areas to gain assessment skills.

elizabells, BSN, RN · Mar 9, 2006

Our school had a huge meeting about this the other day, which I did not attend because I am in NNP so I don't have to learn pelvics. But one of their "justifications" is that if someone has a sexual trauma in their past, they can opt out. Oh yes, that's great. One in three women over 18 has been sexually assaulted. Having to make a point of "oh, I can't do this because I've been hurt" is in nooooooo way invasive. How many women do they think are going to feel comfortable with this? I honestly believe most will just grit their teeth and do it rather than publicly discuss such a painful subject. This makes me crazy. Exposing your abusive past is just as difficult as exposing your lady parts, IMO. If I were in the class, I'd *volunteer* for the pelvics, but if they told me I *had* to, I'd tell them where to go. I don't have a problem with people seeing my lady parts, but if you try to tell me what to do with it, prepare to meet the anger.

The med students get models. Of course, the med students also have a fifty inch flatscreen plasma TV, leather furniture, a pool table, and a nap room in their lounge, while we have a conference table and a computer that doesn't work.

And they say the boys don't have to subject themselves to prostate exams bc there are so few of them, there would be more people practicing on them. I say lubed finger up your tuchis is a lot less uncomfortable than an untrained person with a speculum. Heck, it's less uncomfortable than a *trained* person with a speculum. Whatever.

lovingpecola · Mar 10, 2006

I say lubed finger up your tuchis is a lot less uncomfortable than an untrained person with a speculum. Heck, it's less uncomfortable than a *trained* person with a speculum. Whatever.

HA! Right!!!!!!!

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Mar 10, 2006

I'm not a prude, but I do have my limits. I would NEVER consent to a breast exam or a pelvic BY A FELLOW STUDENT. These people can get bent. IV's are one thing, I'll consent to being assessed, I don't even have problems with a non-invasive (ha ha) physical - but having a classmate see me with my feet propped up or my bra off is another matter entirely!

mtnmom · Mar 11, 2006

in my FNP program we are going to spend a day at a community health department doing and learning pelvics. I am actually excited about that because I think it will be a great learning experience on several levels. Haven't yet learned what we do about breast exams, though.

gatherswool · Mar 12, 2006

At my school we had paid human models for the pelvic exams and weird little silicone models for the BE (those left us all feeling a little, well, inadequate). I'm really uncomfortable with schools using students as models. This just seems like really bad practice to me.

1) My pelvic experience is different from a patient's. Maybe I'm okay with it. Maybe she's not. Me going through it tells me very little about what she thinks of it, especially if she has CMT and I don't!

2) If I'm in practice and a former classmate/current friend/colleague walks though the door, I'm referring them to another colleague for treatment. Friends don't let friends PAP friends.

3) As has been pointed out very well before, HIPAA, people!

I'm also a little weirded out by all the "gross" references. It's just a cooter. Half of us gots 'em. No more gross--if a lot more personal--than poking around in a classmate's ears. It's the personal part that makes this inappropriate, IMHO, though anyone who wants to keep their TMs private should be respected, too. Teased mercilessly, but respected.

elizabells, BSN, RN · Mar 12, 2006

I'm also a little weirded out by all the "gross" references. It's just a cooter. Half of us gots 'em. No more gross--if a lot more personal--than poking around in a classmate's ears. It's the personal part that makes this inappropriate, IMHO, though anyone who wants to keep their TMs private should be respected, too. Teased mercilessly, but respected.

BWAH! Totally. I have to say, I don't think a pelvic could be any more embarassing than when my lab partner assessed my scalp as "dry and flaky".

And I am SO getting a bumper sticker that says friends don't let friends pap friends.

Chaya, ASN, RN · Mar 13, 2006

" It's just a cooter. Half of us gots 'em."

Ooh! Ooh! Yet another entry for the 'names for body parts thread'!

elizabells, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2006

" It's just a cooter. Half of us gots 'em."
Ooh! Ooh! Yet another entry for the 'names for body parts thread'!

Oh, don't get me started, girl. I was in the lady parts Monologues again this year, and we got a whole list. Some highlights: split knish, nappy dugout, monkeybox, Gladys Siegelman. Those are just a few I remember off the top of my head.

Sorry! Off topic...