Is shortening nursing schools a good idea?

orrndavid · Jun 11

Nurses do NOT need a BSN to pass their boards. When I was in school, ADNs outsurpassed BSNs on their pass rate. All the time. Because they had more clinical time and the ability to critically think. BSN programs teach you not too much more about nursing, but are more interested in your overall education. When you get to the floor, a job, an assignment it doesn't mean ****. I was with a BSN who didn't know how to start an IV, who didn't know how to insert a foley, who didn't know how to start an antibiotic piggyback. When asked about gtts per minute, she didn't have a clue. Would you want someone like that taking care of you?

Mickeyii · Jun 12

That's not been my experience in my area of the country. Just the opposite in fact. How can a one year RN program produce a good nurse? I just don't believe it's possible. Nursing is long overdue to require a four year degree as well as state licensure to be considered a "professional" as teachers and lawyers, etc. Many healthcare disciplines are already requiring masters or doctorate degrees and nursing is resisting even a baccalaureate.

FiremedicMike, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Jun 13

Mickeyii said:

That's not been my experience in my area of the country. Just the opposite in fact. How can a one year RN program produce a good nurse? I just don't believe it's possible. Nursing is long overdue to require a four year degree as well as state licensure to be considered a "professional" as teachers and lawyers, etc. Many healthcare disciplines are already requiring masters or doctorate degrees and nursing is resisting even a baccalaureate.

Well, as usual, because there's little to no standardization in nursing education across the nation, it's nearly impossible to compare apples to apples. Some BSN programs incorporate 4 full years of clinical on top of the additional BSN didactics (research, EBP, etc), others are essentially paper-mills that offer nothing to clinical practice. I earned my ADN as a hybrid student at a brick and mortar program then my RN to BSN online from a different brick and mortar program. My BSN was truly 1.5 years of mindless busywork and did NOTHING to improve my clinical practice.

My wife has been an LPN for 15 years and is currently halfway done with a 1 year LPN to RN diploma program. When she gets done, she'll run circles around 95% of new BSN nurses and will probably even be a better nurse than me. It's more about the individual than the program and curriculum.

Of course, lets not ignore the elephant in the room - modern healthcare and modern nursing is nothing like it was even 25 years ago, yet the education remains the same. Like many, my ADN was very broad with little meat and almost none of it has been applicable to my job in the ED. Between computerized charting, protocol-based medicine, immediate access to providers/pharmacists, self-programming IV pumps, and a myriad of other "improvements", it seems so silly to me now that I was expected to regurgitate the appropriate age when a child should be able to perform a pincer grip, or that rifampin interacts poorly with nearly every drug, or that if "grapefruit juice" is one of your multiple choice answers - pick it.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Jul 3

I'm not sure what the OP means by "shortening nursing school." Does this refer to leaving stuff out of the curriculum or does this refer to Accelerated BSN programs?

State BONs require certain subjects, along with clinical rotations, for accreditation and licensing, so I'm not sure a nursing school could just cut short their curriculum.

LVN - generally requires 1 year full time nursing school, usually through a community college

RN - may be earned by graduating from a 2 year ADN program, usually through a community college, or by earning a 4-year BSN

Accelerated BSN (ABSN) programs are for people who already have a Bachelor's degree in a non-nursing field. These programs only teach nursing, so yes, they can be accelerated. This vary in length for FT students from 12 to 24 months. I did a 16 mo program and it was intense, but quite doable. Some students at the school were in a 13 month program, and that seemed insane to me. They described it as "drinking from a firehose," hectic, and they really looked tired, but they were satisfied with the program. An ABSN is a good option for someone who already has a college degree and wants to become an RN as soon as possible. It does require a lot of commitment and to pretty much do nothing else but nursing school for 12 to 24 months, but can be a good choice for some. I am happy I did an ABSN.

FiremedicMike, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Jul 4

FullGlass said:

I'm not sure what the OP means by "shortening nursing school." Does this refer to leaving stuff out of the curriculum or does this refer to Accelerated BSN programs?

State BONs require certain subjects, along with clinical rotations, for accreditation and licensing, so I'm not sure a nursing school could just cut short their curriculum.

LVN - generally requires 1 year full time nursing school, usually through a community college

RN - may be earned by graduating from a 2 year ADN program, usually through a community college, or by earning a 4-year BSN

Accelerated BSN (ABSN) programs are for people who already have a Bachelor's degree in a non-nursing field. These programs only teach nursing, so yes, they can be accelerated. This vary in length for FT students from 12 to 24 months. I did a 16 mo program and it was intense, but quite doable. Some students at the school were in a 13 month program, and that seemed insane to me. They described it as "drinking from a firehose," hectic, and they really looked tired, but they were satisfied with the program. An ABSN is a good option for someone who already has a college degree and wants to become an RN as soon as possible. It does require a lot of commitment and to pretty much do nothing else but nursing school for 12 to 24 months, but can be a good choice for some. I am happy I did an ABSN.

Just as an FYI, RN diploma programs are still out there. They're not very well advertised or known about, and the ones in my area all require an active LPN license, but they do exist and can be beneficial for LPNs

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Jul 6

FiremedicMike said:

Just as an FYI, RN diploma programs are still out there. They're not very well advertised or known about, and the ones in my area all require an active LPN license, but they do exist and can be beneficial for LPNs

Thank you for this additional information. I am glad RN diploma programs still exist.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jul 17

PA BON Approved Registered Nurse Programs

ADN: 28

BSN: 48

RN Diploma: 14

Most have articulation agreement with BSN program -- often just 1 additional year post NCLEX acheived.

RN Entry level Masters: 4

Total 94 programs!

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jul 17

orrndavid said:

Nurses do NOT need a BSN to pass their boards. When I was in school, ADNs outsurpassed BSNs on their pass rate. All the time. Because they had more clinical time and the ability to critically think. BSN programs teach you not too much more about nursing, but are more interested in your overall education. When you get to the floor, a job, an assignment it doesn't mean ****. I was with a BSN who didn't know how to start an IV, who didn't know how to insert a foley, who didn't know how to start an antibiotic piggyback. When asked about gtts per minute, she didn't have a clue. Would you want someone like that taking care of you?

What does this have to do with the topic ? I don't know why you have to claim your superiority because you went to an ADN program and put someone else down. So far, there appears to be room for everyone. I didn't know how to start an IV when I graduated but so what? We never got to do them on the floors because I worked in a large teaching hospital. It's just a technical skill. Believe, me I learned very quickly when I left med surg to work in an oncology office where we gave the chemo in an office. Ports weren't available yet. Sometimes I had to use a finger vein. Why would a college waste my time teaching me to start an IV, a strictly experiential skill. You can never learn to do it will from a classroom. You get good by starting hundreds of them.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Jul 29

A lot of topics being brought up here.

I would think a 1 year ADN program would have a crap ton of prereqs. Most ADN programs seem shorter than they really are because people are doing their A&P, micro, chem, stat, etc elsewhere.

As far as there being no standardization, that is just not true. In order to obtain and maintain accreditation nursing schools must meet standards. If you are attending an unaccredited school, this may be an issue, but few schools are unaccredited, and in any case you should not attend such a school.

As far as BSNs coming out not knowing skills, this is true. It shouldn't and wouldn't matter if they go to a hospital that is willing to teach skills. These are the things you learn with practice anyway. I placed one foley in nursing school. I gave a few IV meds, but was not allowed to push IV. We didn't draw blood or place IVs as students either. So what? I knew why we were giving the meds, I understood gtt/min, I knew the concepts. The practical skills came later, which was fine. It's only a problem if you have preceptors who don't want to teach or a hospital that isn't willing to invest.

Let's not be toxic about education.