Is My Pay Really That Bad???

Nurse_Lightning · Nov 2, 2015

For reference. I live in a coastal metro suburban area in the PNW. My mortgage (and mine is low) is $1500, WSGE are $400-500/mo. So you can imagine it'd be quite different making $22/hr here vs where you are.

I'm sorry, what is "PNW"? Yes, if $1500 is low, I can only imagine. With $1500/month I'd be able to pay for my entire existence (housing, food, gas, bills, etc.), minus my student loan repayment.

NedRN · Nov 2, 2015

Pacific NorthWest.

Nurse_Lightning · Nov 2, 2015

I would pack up and move away to someplace that paid better. It is that simple for me. It is not that hard to move on and start over.
At a minimum I would get my license in a higher paying area and go get a medsurg(even if that was all I could do) assignment making more money say in northern Cali. Keep your house locally as a tax base home, visit family when you want to and work 6 months a year making double your current wage.

Argo, I may PM you for advice because it seems EXTREMELY hard to just move and start all over. Especially as a female. We need help with things that make us vulnerable targets to be taken advantage of, at least, I do (for instance, moving and having heavy furniture that need to be lifted)

Anywho, I love the northern California idea. I'm seriously considering your advice. Especially because I'm single with no kids. Question: Is travel med/surg even harder than perm staff positioned med/surg in regards to acuity, nurse/patient ratio, etc.? I ask because, assuming that the hospital needs travelers, they are most likely scarce on resources.... Basically - will every day be like hell?

Nurse_Lightning · Nov 2, 2015

I'm in the same area as you, OP, (also RN) and after nearly 5 years on the floor, I still made under $19! I hear my old hospital raised their rates a little but the starting pay us still terrible.
Oh, and my one bedroom apartment was 600+ a month - before utilities.

Are you serious?!!! Move. Move now. You can come stay with me in my two bedroom house. I'll charge you $250 for rent (utilities, Internet, and garage parking included) and you can work at my hospital making at least $25/hour! lol

Nurse_Lightning · Nov 2, 2015

I think I may live in the same city as you. I graduate in December and have been wondering myself about pay, negotiating salary, ect. I've heard we're kind of locked in based on experience in this area which is a little scary for a new grad with lots of loans! Congrats on NP school and good luck with what you decide!

Thanks! =)

Since I started (in 2012), my hospital has raised the starting rate from $17.78 to $19.98 for brand new RNs. The other major hospital system (I heard) has an even lower starting rate.

I was basically forced to go back to NP school because I couldn't afford my living expenses AND my loan repayments without working less than 55 hours/week, EVERY week of the year. And that'd be just to break even! (No vacations, clothes shopping, spending money, etc.)

Nurse_Lightning · Nov 2, 2015

It is simple supply and demand. Colleges and universities are falling over themselves to start RN programs, plus all the online schools, plus overseas trained RN's adding into the supply pool. More people looking for the same job pushes down wages. Not right or wrong, just is. HR determines wages by amount of replies to position opening announcements. No replies-too low. Hundreds of replies- too high.
Where i work there are several travelers that live right here and do their contracts where they live, with the allowances, ends up more $ than per diem employees and they have freedom to take long vacations/time off when they want. Plus as they tell me- don't have to get involved in any politics or games.

I thought about this at one point too. But the agencies I talked to said I had to live so many miles away from the facility to consider it "travel" nursing.

NedRN · Nov 2, 2015

Anywho, I love the northern California idea. I'm seriously considering your advice. Especially because I'm single with no kids. Question: Is travel med/surg even harder than perm staff positioned med/surg in regards to acuity, nurse/patient ratio, etc.? I ask because, assuming that the hospital needs travelers, they are most likely scarce on resources.... Basically - will every day be like hell?

Sometimes true. As a first time traveler in medsurg, you won't be competitive with travelers who have already proved their success so you might not be able to get a good assignment and have to deal with known unpleasantness. Luck of the draw often.

For profit chains such as HCA employ accountants to help operate hospital as profitably as they can. Which usually means high patient to nurse ratios and minimal resources and nurse unfriendly management. In non union areas, this happens in all hospitals to some degree and even in union hospitals.

California has a nurse staffing ratio law (part of the reason they use so many travelers). So a bad hospital there can be better than a "good" hospital in the South where there are no unions and large for profit chains such as HCA and Tenent rule. It is also heavily unionized. So this favors a move.

California housing is very expensive. However the same rules apply there as elsewhere. It is the same pool of potential employees in a given area and they have to compete for the same employees. So locating a certain distance outside of a major city and you have the same wages but often significantly lower housing costs. Rent often has a disconnect with home prices so it can be better to rent than own financially. Very area specific. The New York Times has a calculator to determine whether it is better to buy or rent - but even then it is a gamble as you don't know where things will be in 10 years.

It can oddly be difficult to get a staff job in many California cities. Many hospitals prefer to keep a certain level of travelers as a buffer for changing census. And in many places, travelers are cheaper than staff! Reversing the usual cost issues. Hospitals still run better with core staff so you can only go so far, and the unions will get involved if there is obvious abuse. Often the only way into many hospitals is to be a well liked and proven traveler first.

NedRN · Nov 2, 2015

I thought about this at one point too. But the agencies I talked to said I had to live so many miles away from the facility to consider it "travel" nursing.

This would be a hospital rule, not an agency rule. Hospitals understandably don't want to contaminate their local pool of nurses by converting them to more expensive travelers.

Working locally usually doesn't work out financially if you follow IRS rules. A large part of the benefit of being a travel nurse is that working away from home allows you to receive a large part of your compensation tax free. If you commute to work from home, you don't qualify. Then you also lose all your staff benefits such as good health insurance (very costly), sick time, vacation accrual, and education benefits. It usually doesn't compute. It is similar to going per diem for the hospital, you get a higher hourly but lose your benefits.

nurse.ethel.RN · Nov 2, 2015

I agree 100% that pay is #1 regional #2 based on experience. California RN's make $40-50; the same experienced RN in my region doing the exact same thing will make in the $25 range, go further east TN and its even lower, like low $20s. It all depends on cost of living in your area.

8-ball, BSN · Nov 2, 2015

I'm just gonna add my 2 cents. I make $24/hour now I have been a nurse for 5 years ASN with 1 year med/surg and 3 years ICU and now 1 year Interventional Radiology. I started out at $21/hour in FL and after 1 year moved to Nashville TN. I think cost of living matters but I live in a big city of Nashville and still only make $24/hour. Housing here is expensive and taxes are really high at 9.5%. Gas and other things are fairly inexpensive though. This is part of the reason I am considering travel nursing.

Hoosier_RN, MSN · Nov 2, 2015

I think my pay is low at $26/hr. Med-Surg RN with 2 years experience (Ohio). I have heard Indiana and North Carolina are notoriously low-paying across the board. Does your cost of living reflect this?

I live in south central IN and its relatively low cost. I live in a organized community, so my utilities are higher, but my home was low cost, but have association fees. Groceries and other things are pretty reasonable/cheap compared to other areas. And I don't make bank with 17 yrs experience, neither do my coworkers. I make $28/hr. I think I get paid fairly. My home and car are paid for. Just have daily and incidental expenses NPs and MDs are lower bracket comparatively as well

LPNtoRNin2016OH, LPN · Nov 2, 2015

That's crazy. I am in a LPN in Ohio and made more than you at my first job in long term care. $23/hour is about what I make PRN in LTC now.