Is it only a matter of time?

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Is it only a matter of time until Excelsior graduates won't be accepted anymore? I really hate that, because Excelsior is really the only smart way to go for a full-time working individual.

My fear is that I get halfway through the program and then Texas drops the bomb-- and then I'm screwed. :banghead:

Any thoughts? ?

Dave

Respectfully, Ivan, we disagree.

The boards are concerned about money. Period. They have never been able to prove that EC grads are anything less than superior.

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Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
Respectfully, Ivan, we disagree.

The boards are concerned about money. Period. They have never been able to prove that EC grads are anything less than superior.

I hear you, but a couple of points. It is rarely correct to use absolute terms. Not all boards are like this or like that, they are all different from each other, some more so than others. Second, if money was their only motivation then it would seem to me that by limiting RN license applicants they are limiting their intake of funds. To say that various boards stated concerns (even if the actual motivation is different) regarding lack of clinical time are completely without merit just isn't reasonable.

There are many LPNs out there, many with impressive backgrounds and experience. I have worked with many LPNs including two former roommates who were very sharp, sometimes more so than some RNs I know. But what about those LPNs with little experience? The boards have to consider that a new grad LPN with no experience can successfully complete the EC course/CPNE. That holds for new grad paramedics as well. In fact, I sometimes think that new grad LPNs and paramedics have the advantage because they don't have as many "bad habits" to unlearn for the CPNE. Also this is not just limited to the state boards. There are many employers who have reservations about EC. It doesn't matter if there is no evidence to prove EC grads are inferior. Perception is everything. That is just the way of the world. Just look at actual practice: how often have you or a fellow nurse get off on the wrong foot with a patient and blown that initial perception. Sure it can be overcome, but not without additional work.

I think this all could be rectified if EC could add a clinical component and ditch the CPNE.

By the way, congrats on your success!!!!

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Specializes in Peds stepdown ICU.
I think it really depends on your state. I have no desire to live in either GA or CA so I'm cool.

:cool:

For you it is ok...the point he was making is that things can change at anytime....and they do. Things could even change for future students in your state! I have seen it happen. It could happen in your state at any time. Board members change, and with that change view points may also change. I enrolled in EC in 2003, prior to the CBORN decision to no longer recognize EC grads, and since this time it has been a domino effect! I know i have clinical experience and I know EC was no walk in the park, but that doesn't change the fact many restrictions have been placed on EC graduates. I would not do it this way again.

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Specializes in Peds stepdown ICU.
I hear you, but a couple of points. It is rarely correct to use absolute terms. Not all boards are like this or like that, they are all different from each other, some more so than others. Second, if money was their only motivation then it would seem to me that by limiting RN license applicants they are limiting their intake of funds. To say that various boards stated concerns (even if the actual motivation is different) regarding lack of clinical time are completely without merit just isn't reasonable.

There are many LPNs out there, many with impressive backgrounds and experience. I have worked with many LPNs including two former roommates who were very sharp, sometimes more so than some RNs I know. But what about those LPNs with little experience? The boards have to consider that a new grad LPN with no experience can successfully complete the EC course/CPNE. That holds for new grad paramedics as well. In fact, I sometimes think that new grad LPNs and paramedics have the advantage because they don't have as many "bad habits" to unlearn for the CPNE. Also this is not just limited to the state boards. There are many employers who have reservations about EC. It doesn't matter if there is no evidence to prove EC grads are inferior. Perception is everything. That is just the way of the world. Just look at actual practice: how often have you or a fellow nurse get off on the wrong foot with a patient and blown that initial perception. Sure it can be overcome, but not without additional work.

I think this all could be rectified if EC could add a clinical component and ditch the CPNE.

By the way, congrats on your success!!!!

I agree. I am thankful that i could do this program but disappointed in all the restrictions. I would not feel secure doing the program. When I enrolled there were very few stipulations--then the cali domino fell.....

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Specializes in Peds stepdown ICU.
I hear you, but a couple of points. It is rarely correct to use absolute terms. Not all boards are like this or like that, they are all different from each other, some more so than others. Second, if money was their only motivation then it would seem to me that by limiting RN license applicants they are limiting their intake of funds. To say that various boards stated concerns (even if the actual motivation is different) regarding lack of clinical time are completely without merit just isn't reasonable.

There are many LPNs out there, many with impressive backgrounds and experience. I have worked with many LPNs including two former roommates who were very sharp, sometimes more so than some RNs I know. But what about those LPNs with little experience? The boards have to consider that a new grad LPN with no experience can successfully complete the EC course/CPNE. That holds for new grad paramedics as well. In fact, I sometimes think that new grad LPNs and paramedics have the advantage because they don't have as many "bad habits" to unlearn for the CPNE. Also this is not just limited to the state boards. There are many employers who have reservations about EC. It doesn't matter if there is no evidence to prove EC grads are inferior. Perception is everything. That is just the way of the world. Just look at actual practice: how often have you or a fellow nurse get off on the wrong foot with a patient and blown that initial perception. Sure it can be overcome, but not without additional work.

I think this all could be rectified if EC could add a clinical component and ditch the CPNE.

By the way, congrats on your success!!!!

my thoughts exactly!

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Specializes in LTC, Acute Care.

The CPNE is mega stressful and ultra picky, but if it wasn't that way, then the opinion of others outside the experience of the program would be further worsened, in my opinion. We don't want EC to hold to any other standards than those of near-perfect nursing. If the CPNE turned into a situation that is comparable to the relative laxity of a nursing clinical, then this would help prove the naysayers right when they claim, "You only have a weekend of clinicals?!?"

EC fills a void for so many--there are plenty of single-income or not-so-rich households that need that full-time income coming in. With women making up more than 90% of the nursing workforce AND being the one who normally take more than their share of childrearing, EC easily appears to be the best way for some families to keep a roof over the family's head while bettering the paycheck and fulfilling a big goal.

Then we have our paramedics who often have the choice of either starting a nursing program from scratch like someone with no healthcare experience, or they can go the EC route, which certainly can expedite things when those paramedics can draw EKG strips in your sleep. Personally, I know of no paramedic-RN bridges around here, which is a shame. My area is not unique in this way. EC fills a void again.

Then again, we have the nerds like me who may never again set foot in a direct care situation again. Now I'm on the documentation side of things. EC certainly has other students who are not in direct patient care and don't intend to be once they achieve their RN. Sometimes it's just earning those beautiful letters behind our name or bettering our career where the school we went to doesn't have quite the stigma it would if we were in direct care.

I'm still surprised other schools don't try to do something similar to EC's program.

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Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.

I have to say, I agree with everything Ivan says. I think this is the way things will go in the future for EC (adding clinicals). If the NCSBN is passing this down to the individual SBONs, I think it's only a matter of time. I don't agree with this anti-EC thing they have going on, but I think we will see some changes in EC's format here in the future.

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Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
If the CPNE turned into a situation that is comparable to the relative laxity of a nursing clinical, then this would help prove the naysayers right when they claim, "You only have a weekend of clinicals?!?"

EC fills a void for so many

Good points. I don't however suggest that the CPNE should become lax. I suggest that the CPNE should be eliminated entirely and a system for clinical rotation(s) be put in place.

I will admit that EC fills voids, it certainly did for me, but there are other ways to do distance/online learning that could include local clinicals. I agree that there should be more transition programs for paramedics and LPNs. This is all part of the evolution of nursing in 21st century and change does hurt.

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Specializes in LTC, Acute Care.
Good points. I don't however suggest that the CPNE should become lax. I suggest that the CPNE should be eliminated entirely and a system for clinical rotation(s) be put in place.

I will admit that EC fills voids, it certainly did for me, but there are other ways to do distance/online learning that could include local clinicals. I agree that there should be more transition programs for paramedics and LPNs. This is all part of the evolution of nursing in 21st century and change does hurt.

This is where ISU, the school for LPN-BSN online, has it totally right in the online learning arena. EC could evolve to fill that void for the associate degree in nursing--if they would have a student do his or her clinicals in the hometown of the student. I only wish a school in my entire freaking corn-picking state would have a thing where classes can be done online and the clinicals be done in person.

Why is nursing so behind on this concept, anyway?

(I totally agree with you, Ivan.)

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Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
This is where ISU, the school for LPN-BSN online, has it totally right in the online learning arena. EC could evolve to fill that void for the associate degree in nursing--if they would have a student do his or her clinicals in the hometown of the student. I only wish a school in my entire freaking corn-picking state would have a thing where classes can be done online and the clinicals be done in person.

Why is nursing so behind on this concept, anyway?

(I totally agree with you, Ivan.)

It could be geography. I have found that more and more traditional brick/mortar schools are moving to hybrid online classes with limited campus visits and putting the onus of finding local preceptors on the students. I do like the ISU plan of LPN to BSN. I think the associates degree is a complete waste of time. If you look at it, you spend the same amount of time in an associates program as the BSN students do in theirs. I think this is also a goal of the AACN and to me it makes sense.

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Specializes in LTC, Acute Care.
I think the associates degree is a complete waste of time. If you look at it, you spend the same amount of time in an associates program as the BSN students do in theirs. I think this is also a goal of the AACN and to me it makes sense.

It's no waste of time to get an associate degree. We have to keep in mind that while the time required may be similar to complete the RN and BSN, some people are not cut out for the upper-level classes that are in BSN programs. This is no dis against people who choose the associate degree as their terminal degree--my husband is precisely this kind of RN with his associate degree in nursing. He struggled with the ADN portion of his degree (traditional CC), not because of problems understanding the content, but more with writing papers and things of that nature. He is a poor writer by his own admission. I can attest to the fact that he is a fabulous nurse and absolutely shines as a direct care nurse. (He did administration work, but that's not his forte, IMO, because of his rocking patient care.) He is by leaps and bounds a better nurse than me. There is an extremely important place for these nurses who cannot further their education to the BSN level. For example, without ADN RNs and diploma or ADN LPNs, we can shut down hundreds of nursing homes.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing--you are clearly intelligent and capable of knocking out a BSN with your eyes closed. However, not everyone is capable of this. EC's program has a place for people who have no plans to move on further because they don't want to spend the time or money...or just can't do it.

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Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.

You make a good point and there are many that would agree with you. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to be forced into a BSN. I firmly believe that all current RNs should be able to stay put if that is their wish. Grandfather all of the diploma and ASN/ADNs, I say. I finished my BSN classes last year, and now I am in the masters portion of an ADN to MSN program, and yes, all I do is write papers. And as resistant as I was at first, I now enjoy writing them. They have helped to organize my thoughts, increase my vocabulary, and enhance my professionalism. Also, because of all the research that goes with writing, I have increased my understanding of a myriad of concepts that are related to nursing and other areas as well.

In my opinion, however, I don't consider the BSN material any harder than the ADN material. Further, if there are those that would have problems with writing (or any area of BSN studies) then they always have the option to seek extra help. I have been in school now for over 2 years at Graceland, and many people I started out with also had problems with writing and specificiclly writing using the APA format. Now they write very well. I know because we have to read each others papers quite frequently.

So my stance would be that the associates level of nursing education be phased out while grandfathering all current diploma/associates nurses. I just feel that nurses deserve the benefits of having a BSN in terms of professional status and future career development.

It's no waste of time to get an associate degree. We have to keep in mind that while the time required may be similar to complete the RN and BSN, some people are not cut out for the upper-level classes that are in BSN programs. This is no dis against people who choose the associate degree as their terminal degree--my husband is precisely this kind of RN with his associate degree in nursing. He struggled with the ADN portion of his degree (traditional CC), not because of problems understanding the content, but more with writing papers and things of that nature. He is a poor writer by his own admission. I can attest to the fact that he is a fabulous nurse and absolutely shines as a direct care nurse. (He did administration work, but that's not his forte, IMO, because of his rocking patient care.) He is by leaps and bounds a better nurse than me. There is an extremely important place for these nurses who cannot further their education to the BSN level. For example, without ADN RNs and diploma or ADN LPNs, we can shut down hundreds of nursing homes.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing--you are clearly intelligent and capable of knocking out a BSN with your eyes closed. However, not everyone is capable of this. EC's program has a place for people who have no plans to move on further because they don't want to spend the time or money...or just can't do it.

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