Is it better to do an entry MSN or BSN if you do not have an RN yet?

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Do you think it's better to try to get an entry MSN and take the Nclex, than a BSN? Still would have no work experience when finished and looking for that new grad job, so would it be harder to find one with a Masters RN and no experience? or better to have it completed. Thanks

Specializes in ICU, ER, nursing admin, med/surg, flight.

I disagree to your response. The fact is, whether MSN/CNL vs BSN vs ADN, a new graduate nurse is a new graduate nurse. An MSN/CNL would likely land a clinical job right out of school, just as an ADN or BSN prepared nurse would.

If you were a manager hiring an RN for a staff nurse job, would you rather have a new grad RN or a new grad RN? That is how it should be compared!

I was an LPN, then ADN, then BSN, and now working toward MSN so I a firm advocate for nursing education. Yet, I do believe that a second degree RN (with an MSN) should be offered the same employment opportunity that a new grad ADN or BSN is offered.

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I am currently in an MS/CNL program with no prior clinical nursing experience. Yes, I will be competing with all other new ADN and BSN grads when I graduate to get my first job as a staff nurse. New grads are new grads any way you slice it. However, CNLs have the ability to climb the administrative ladder much faster than ADN or BSN prepared RNs only because they have the extra MS credential.

In my program we take all of the core nursing courses with the BSN students. (Classes such as fundamentals of nursing, med-surg, health assessment, pathopharmacology etc.) In these courses, CNL students are required to write extra papers or complete extra assignments that specifically examine our leadership role in the health care system. On the other hand, we take all of the theory courses with other MS students (NP, CNS, CRNA). For example, I took the graduate level research class this past semester, and if I do decide to pursue an advanced practice degree in the future, I will test out of this class. In addition, CNL students have classes built in throughout the program that are specific to the CNL role.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the CNL role, I recommend visiting the AACN's website and reading the White Paper on the Education and Role of the CNL.

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Publications/WhitePapers/ClinicalNurseLeader07.pdf

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/cnl/pdf/Brochure.pdf

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Specializes in Clinical Nurse Leader.
CACurly:

Any concentrated nursing program is demanding (whether a Direct Entry CNL or an Accelerated BSN). While I cannot speak for every Direct Entry program in the country, the students in our program report that they are spending more hours on class, readings, papers, clinical practice than are our BSN students (60 hours a week on average). They are doing as well as our BSN students in employment (and have a better passing rate on the NCLEX).

Some employers are eager to hire CNLs (especially the Veterans Administration which is seeking to have CNLs in every unit of all 85 of their facilities in the next few years). We've also seen that academic medical centers and Magnet hospitals are also hiring Direct Entry CNLs.

Again, we are just one program but we were one of the first to enroll CNLs (starting in 2005). The program is so successful for us that we are enrolling CNLs at three entry points now (Direct Entry, ADN, and BSN).

I saw in another forum you posted in that CNL's are moving up the clinical ladder faster opposed to BSN', can you explain what you mean? This is all new to me and I am trying to grasp what it all means! Thank you

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Soulshine:

Most hospitals have clinical ladders - a set system of promotion from Novice Nurse to Expert Clinician. While different facilities have a different number of 'rungs' or steps on the ladder, nearly all have an established format where a RN can challenge the ladder and demonstrate competencies and accomplishments to be promoted.

At UVa's Health System, all novice nurses are hired as Clinician Level I. Most BSN-prepared graduates are Clin I's for 12 months after which they can submit a portfolio to rise to Level II. Most BSN-prepared RNs need to work 3-4 years at Level II before submitting a portfolio for Level III.

In the past 5+ years of graduating CNLs, the Health System will now receive requests for promotion to Level II after 8 months for CNL grads. And a CNL-prepared individual can challenge to Level III after 2 years at Level II.

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I saw that you said some schools count the CNL as a Masters and so to be an NP graduates only have to do a post-master's certificate. Do other schools make students retake master's classes to be an NP?

Also have graduates that have left Virginia moving up the clinical ladder quickly? Are they also being hired more quickly than BSN graduates?

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There's the direct entry option. Half of the students in my clinical classes are DE students and my godmother's daughter got her's after getting a bachelor's in biology. I heard they were cancelling out the MSN soon though so everybody would have to get a DNP instead so you should make your decision soon.

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Specializes in Urgent Care NP, Emergency Nursing, Camp Nursing.
There's the direct entry option. Half of the students in my clinical classes are DE students and my godmother's daughter got her's after getting a bachelor's in biology. I heard they were cancelling out the MSN soon though so everybody would have to get a DNP instead so you should make your decision soon.

:banghead:

Master's Entry and an APN certification at the master's level are two separate things.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

You need to know if direct entry MSN grads are hired in your area. They have a harder time finding jobs in my area than BSN grads with several health systems refusing to consider them for employment. The other thing to consider is student aid. More student aid is available to graduate programs if you already have bachelors degree. More student aid available but the cost is higher

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Also, don't pay much attention to the CNL title. Many places do not hire specifically a clinical nurse leader as a professional title, but ANYWHERE will hire you as an RN with an MSN.

*** This is bad info. Direct entry MSN grads are not hired by all health systems. You really need to conside where you plan to work when making this decision.

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Specializes in Urgent Care NP, Emergency Nursing, Camp Nursing.
*** This is bad info. Direct entry MSN grads are not hired by all health systems. You really need to conside where you plan to work when making this decision.

This is misleading info - employers care more about the individual programs than the degrees they award.

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Healers:

There are over 5000 healthcare facilities in the US. There is no generalized policy on how people are hired, promoted, etc. Every hospital and health system had their own practices so it is impossible to generalize about how everything operates all across the country.

Those are good questions for you to ask prospective employers directly.

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I am an LPN with 23 yrs. experience. I have a bachelor's degree in a non-nursing field and I am considering a direct entry CNL program in my area. My main concern is cost. I eventually want to move on to become an NP, and I am looking for the most cost-efficient route. Another option, is for me to get my ADN, work for a couple of years, then do an RN to MSN program. Again, I'm concerned about the cost. Also, would my LPN experience count for anything as a new grad with an MSN?

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