Is the AA profession gaining ground?

Josh L.Ac. · Jul 19, 2007

Thread Resurrection.

So a new AA program has opened at UMKC in Kansas City and I am seriously considering applying to it. My research has shown that AA's make about 80-100% of what CRNA's make in the local market. It has also shown that there is a lack of anesthesia providers in almost all regions. What little data that is available shows that the outcomes between AA's and CRNA's are fairly comparable.

If there was a surplus of anesthesia providers, I could see how AA's might be viewed as a threat. But since there is more than enough room, what is the harm of welcoming AA's into the fold? Is it a slippery slope argument, i.e., that once AA's start increasing in numbers the entire field of Nurse Anesthesists will be at risk?

msledb · Nov 10, 2007

i've been a critical care nurse for 7 years i'm starting anesthesia school (crna) this aug. if you have ever precepted a new graduate rn into the icu you understand the huge difference between individuals who have icu experience and those that don't. 1st year aa students aren't even the functional equivalant of a new grad rn because the new graduate rn's have nursing school clinical experience to prepare them. aa's are required to have no clinical experience! personally, if i were going to aa school i would be terrified going in to the or having no hemodynamic experience, experience with vents, vasoactive drips, iv's, and just monitoring patients. i guess if you don't know what you don't know it really wouldn't bother you then. :uhoh21:

come on now, do you actually think that you go into aa school and on the first day take a trip into the or blind with no experience at all. you are right that upon entry to the aa program, no clinical experience is necessary. that's exactly why there is 3x the clinical experience in aa school v.s. crna school, to prepare the individual who hasn't had the clinical experience of an rn. when comparing crna school and aa school, a crna must have a minimum of (450 ) hours of classroom/laboratory education, (800) hours of clinical anesthesia education, and administration of (450)anesthetics, including all types of surgery, must be achieved for the student to successfully complete the training program. an aa must have a minimum of (600) hours of classroom/laboratory education, (2600)hours of clinical anesthesia education, and more than (600) anesthetics administered, including all types of surgery, are required to successfully complete aa training. also, until recently, nurses with only an associate's degree in nursing were accepted. so does that mean that those individuals are not as qualified as a crna with bs in nursing, and should not practice? no. like previously stated, show me the evidence that there is a difference in the outcome of patient care with respect to a crna vs. aa............you can't. therefore aa's are just as important, qualified and needed by people around the world as crna's.

deepz · Nov 10, 2007

die, thread, die.

jwk · Nov 11, 2007

die, thread, die.

ditto

n_g · Nov 11, 2007

Just follow the money. How do you reduce costs? Introduce competition. Why do you guys think that FL and NC passed AA legislation in the face of huge AANA campaign?

GregRN · Nov 11, 2007

die, thread, die.

Finally...something intelligent and wise said on this thread.

GregRN · Nov 11, 2007

This entire thread reminds me of the words that have provided me so much energy-saving over the years:

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

-Jonathan Swift

Rage, RN · Nov 11, 2007

As the villagers gather with torches shouting words of unfathomable blasphemy "The monster lives"

Lissyann · Nov 25, 2007

I'm intrigued! I never realized the deep rift that exists between these two professions.

I would be very interested in knowing what the motivating factors are that compel a prospective student of anesthesia to choose one path over the other.

ECMOismygame · Nov 30, 2007

I'm intrigued! I never realized the deep rift that exists between these two professions.
I would be very interested in knowing what the motivating factors are that compel a prospective student of anesthesia to choose one path over the other.

i choose AA. why? im not a nurse, simple as that.

i will be a respiratory therapist in a few weeks. i dont feel that i should have to go to nursing school to eventually become an anesthetist. simple as that. no hatred here.

hpadua · Dec 2, 2007

I would be very interested in knowing what the motivating factors are that compel a prospective student of anesthesia to choose one path over the other.

CRNA schools require ICU experience. First, I don't think ICU experience determines your success as an anesthetist. There are many AAs who have never worked at critical care setting, but they are great anesthetist. They know what they're doing. As one of the members said in this post, "You get proficient at anesthesia by practicing anesthesia rather than critical care."

In my case, I would be willing to work in ICU's but not as a nurse. That's why I'm choosing the AA route.

Second, I prefer the medical model. I've been in nursing school, and the teaching did not include much science. They emphasized practical skills and critical thinking...but not so much about science. I tend to be scientific minded. I think with the medical model, not only you'll learn the clinical skills, but there is more science involved.

allnurses Guide · Dec 2, 2007

CRNA schools require ICU experience. First, I don't think ICU experience determines your success as an anesthetist. There are many AAs who have never worked at critical care setting, but they are great anesthetist. They know what they're doing. As one of the members said in this post, "You get proficient at anesthesia by practicing anesthesia rather than critical care."
In my case, I would be willing to work in ICU's but not as a nurse. That's why I'm choosing the AA route.
Second, I prefer the medical model. I've been in nursing school, and the teaching did not include much science. They emphasized practical skills and critical thinking...but not so much about science. I tend to be scientific minded. I think with the medical model, not only you'll learn the clinical skills, but there is more science involved.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but a lot nurse anesthesia schools share instructors and facilities with medical schools. In my school we even take pharm with the med students. I still have to take nursing research/theory, but no matter what path you take anesthesia school is grounded in science.

I compared my school's curriculum with Emory's AA program. Emory covers most of the same things we cover, but we take more classes in science and add in the graduate nursing courses also. Almost all of our science instructors are PhD prepared or have their CRNA/PhD (one has his PhD in pharm and the other has his PhD in Neuro) http://www.usuhs.mil/gsn/documents/RNA_Curriculum.doc

http://www.emoryaaprogram.org/General%20Track/coursework.htm

There is no comparison between undergraduate nursing school and Nurse Anesthesia school. They are two totally different beasts...

Good Luck in AA school!