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Is the AA profession gaining ground?

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Another thread peaked my interest on this issue. How fast is the AA profession gaining ground? I thought they were able to practice in only 2 or 3 states last year, but now it sounds like they are able to practice in 16? Will they be able to practice in even more states soon? Comments appreciated

Another thread peaked my interest on this issue. How fast is the AA profession gaining ground? I thought they were able to practice in only 2 or 3 states last year, but now it sounds like they are able to practice in 16? Will they be able to practice in even more states soon? Comments appreciated

No they were able to practice in a bit more than that. As least 12 or so. Gaining ground yes they are if you mean by increasing their numbers. We as well are increasing or numbers way more than they. Its all about supply, demand and politics, that is why its essential to get involved in these issues.

I'm always concerned when I read AA websites that say they will soon be the primary anesthesia care provider in the U.S. How will this be possible with CRNA's around? I don't have anything against AA's, but it seems like many of the websites imply that CRNA's are going to magically disappear.

I'm always concerned when I read AA websites that say they will soon be the primary anesthesia care provider in the U.S. How will this be possible with CRNA's around? I don't have anything against AA's, but it seems like many of the websites imply that CRNA's are going to magically disappear.

The issue here is how soon is soon. According to the passage at the top of this forum there are 32,000 CRNA, my data from 2005 is 29,500 so we are around 30,000. As well we are putting out about 2,000 new grads a year. As far as the AA profession with a handful of programs and actual practicing AA's it wil take them a while to build up numbers to even come close to closing the gap. This is why we must become involved and advocate that we are the superior providers and are more versatile being we can work without Anesthesiology supervision enabling us to fill the rural shortage that exists today.

The issue here is how soon is soon. According to the passage at the top of this forum there are 32,000 CRNA, my data from 2005 is 29,500 so we are around 30,000. As well we are putting out about 2,000 new grads a year. As far as the AA profession with a handful of programs and actual practicing AA's it wil take them a while to build up numbers to even come close to closing the gap. This is why we must become involved and advocate that we are the superior providers and are more versatile being we can work without Anesthesiology supervision enabling us to fill the rural shortage that exists today.

We are not trying to close the gap. We don't want to take over the world. How many times and how many different ways do you need me to say it. While the AANA has as a major agenda the abolition of AAs nationwide, the AAAA is not interested in putting a single CRNA out of work. There in a nutshell is the difference. You want me out of the OR and unable to provide for my family. I simply want the right to work in my chosen profession anywhere I want. I don't want to put a single CRNA out of work, but I should be able to compete with you for ACT practice positions. Yes, you can fill a need in the rural areas. I will NEVER compete with you for those jobs. ACT practices, on the other hand can and should hire either practitioner interchangably with supply and demand being the major driving force in the decision.

A couple of facts meant to enlighten not inflame. Four years ago there were two AA programs - the same two that had been in existence for 30 years. Now there are five programs, each of which will graduate approx 30 AAs per year. There are several others in the works at major institutions that will train similar numbers.

jwk

Has 32 years experience.

http://www.anesthetistassistant.com/HOMEx.html

http://www.anesthesiaassistant.com/index.html

- a couple sites that made me wonder...

I'm just making an observation; I really don't mean to come across as hostile towards AA's.

Please understand something about these two websites. These are commercial websites that have no affiliation whatsoever and is not endorsed by the AAAA or any AA program (there's about five with similar sounding names, and all of the domain names are owned by the same person, who is not an AA).

The official website for the AAAA is www.anesthetist.org .

Please understand something about these two websites. These are commercial websites that have no affiliation whatsoever and is not endorsed by the AAAA or any AA program (there's about five with similar sounding names, and all of the domain names are owned by the same person, who is not an AA).

The official website for the AAAA is www.anesthetist.org .

I understand. I just thought they were interesting, in no way was I trying to pass those sites off as if they were officially endorsed by the AAAA. But thanks for posting the official site to avoid any confusion or misleading info.

I posted those sites as support for a comment I made earlier. Those were just a few of the sites where I read comments that made statements about AA's as if CRNA's were no longer going to be in existence, or were slowly fading away (at least that's how I perceived them). I understand that not all AA's take that stance, just as I understand not all CRNA's have a negative view of AA's. I can't deny the animosity between the two professions, but as a CRNA hopeful, I'm just trying to learn all I can.

deepz

Specializes in Anesthesia.

.......Four years ago there were two AA programs - the same two that had been in existence for 30 years. Now there are five......

....Yawn....

.

We are not trying to close the gap. We are not in competition with you. How many times and how many different ways do you need me to say it. While the AANA has as a major agenda the abolition of AAs nationwide, the AAAA is not interested in putting a single CRNA out of work. There in a nutshell is the difference. You want me out of the OR and unable to provide for my family. I simply want the right to work in my chosen profession anywhere I want. I don't want to put a single CRNA out of work, but I should be able to compete with you for ACT practice positions. Yes, you can fill a need in the rural areas. I will NEVER compete with you for those jobs. ACT practices, on the other hand can and should hire either practitioner interchangably with supply and demand being the major driving force in the decision.

It is about control and supervision laws, plain and simple. Look at the fiasco in North Carolina. An AA arguement turned into one of supervision for CRNAs.

Politics is dirty.

MmacFN

Specializes in I know stuff ;).

Georgia_AA

I like you alot. All of your posts are well written and thoughtful. Nitecap, jwk and I are all the "fire from the hip" types but you are not.

In anycase, I dont think jwk or you represent AAs in any way other than a good light. Im not a CRNA, but i stayed at a holiday inn last night. From my reading on the AA site it seems clear your association spends a good portion of its webspace comparing CRNA vs AA which suggest they advocate a more aggressive stance than you do. Thats probably why you might get some automatic assumptions about AAs from CRNA students, new CRNAs and potential CRNAs (me).

You, however, seem like a great guy (or girl) to represent the profession. Thnaks for posting.

We are not trying to close the gap. We are not in competition with you. How many times and how many different ways do you need me to say it. While the AANA has as a major agenda the abolition of AAs nationwide, the AAAA is not interested in putting a single CRNA out of work. There in a nutshell is the difference. You want me out of the OR and unable to provide for my family. I simply want the right to work in my chosen profession anywhere I want. I don't want to put a single CRNA out of work, but I should be able to compete with you for ACT practice positions. Yes, you can fill a need in the rural areas. I will NEVER compete with you for those jobs. ACT practices, on the other hand can and should hire either practitioner interchangably with supply and demand being the major driving force in the decision.

A couple of facts meant to enlighten not inflame. Four years ago there were two AA programs - the same two that had been in existence for 30 years. Now there are five programs, each of which will graduate approx 30 AAs per year. There are several others in the works at major institutions that will train similar numbers.

Georgia_AA

I like you alot. All of your posts are well written and thoughtful. Nitecap, jwk and I are all the "fire from the hip" types but you are not.

In anycase, I dont think jwk or you represent AAs in any way other than a good light. Im not a CRNA, but i stayed at a holiday inn last night. From my reading on the AA site it seems clear your association spends a good portion of its webspace comparing CRNA vs AA which suggest they advocate a more aggressive stance than you do. Thats probably why you might get some automatic assumptions about AAs from CRNA students, new CRNAs and potential CRNAs (me).

You, however, seem like a great guy (or girl) to represent the profession. Thnaks for posting.

I agree about their site comparing AA to CRNA's. Seems like recently they may have reduced the amount of comparisons. Just about a month ago it was all over the site though, even on the homepage. Just seems like that is what you guys promote we are just as good a CRNA's instead of really promoting what you do or how you can help provider shortages or any real data proving your claim to safety, equality or effectiveness. In other words your website really doesnt promote what you guys preach here on these forums.

Nice post Mike. I tend to be a gun slinger no diggity no doubt.

....Yawn....

.

Ahhh... Deepz. Missed you buddy, how've you been??

jwk

Has 32 years experience.

I agree about their site comparing AA to CRNA's. Seems like recently they may have reduced the amount of comparisons. Just about a month ago it was all over the site though, even on the homepage. Just seems like that is what you guys promote we are just as good a CRNA's instead of really promoting what you do or how you can help provider shortages or any real data proving your claim to safety, equality or effectiveness. In other words your website really doesnt promote what you guys preach here on these forums.

Nice post Mike. I tend to be a gun slinger no diggity no doubt.

You must be looking at "the other" websites. ;) Our website, the real one, is pretty straightforward about our education and qualifications, and it goes right along with what we say here. There's actually nothing on the website about CRNA's, pro or con, except to mention the review in Cleveland comparing complication rates (no difference).

The provider shortage / rural care issue is interesting all by itself. Here's where politics get dirty, and it's not our doing. We all know there is a shortage of anesthesia providers. If there wasn't, nurse anesthesia schools wouldn't be ramping up like they are (and neither would AA schools for that matter). Yet one of the first arguments thrown up in North Carolina is that there's no shortage. Really?? I just counted up more than 90 positions posted on Gaswork.com. One of those facilities needs 14 anesthetists. And what happens after a nursing lobbyist testifies under oath in the state legislature that there is no shortage of providers? They go to the committe meeting right down the hall and beg for more money for more nursing schools and more CRNA schools because, say it with me now, there's a shortage of providers. Five CRNA schools in NC - but I guess not many of their students stay around. OMG, many of them might actually be going back HOME after they finish school, wherever home might have been. And if there is no shortage, why on earth would a sixth CRNA school be proposed for NC?

You have no argument from me that there are issues with adequate rural coverage (I've addressed the Medicare favoritism to CRNA's previously so I won't rehash that). But I love it when the claim is made that "30 counties in NC don't have an anesthesiologist". Ah, but you know that little thing about "the truth, the WHOLE truth..."? Seems as though 20 of those 30 counties don't even have a hospital or a surgery center or any type of facility that could use the services of an anesthesia provider of any flavor. Similar tactics have been used in every other state where legislation was introduced.

Georgia_AA

I like you alot. All of your posts are well written and thoughtful. Nitecap, jwk and I are all the "fire from the hip" types but you are not.

In anycase, I dont think jwk or you represent AAs in any way other than a good light. Im not a CRNA, but i stayed at a holiday inn last night. From my reading on the AA site it seems clear your association spends a good portion of its webspace comparing CRNA vs AA which suggest they advocate a more aggressive stance than you do. Thats probably why you might get some automatic assumptions about AAs from CRNA students, new CRNAs and potential CRNAs (me).

You, however, seem like a great guy (or girl) to represent the profession. Thnaks for posting.

shocked.gif

Who are you and what have you done with Deepz and Swumpgas?

MmacFN

Specializes in I know stuff ;).

hehehe

The two websites are quite interesting. I followed a link to an adobe file that was full of serious misinformation. It claimed that CRNA grads could take the optional national certification exam. Which I guess is true... if you wanted to actually practice after graduation.

We are not trying to close the gap. We don't want to take over the world. How many times and how many different ways do you need me to say it. While the AANA has as a major agenda the abolition of AAs nationwide, the AAAA is not interested in putting a single CRNA out of work. There in a nutshell is the difference. You want me out of the OR and unable to provide for my family. I simply want the right to work in my chosen profession anywhere I want. I don't want to put a single CRNA out of work, but I should be able to compete with you for ACT practice positions. Yes, you can fill a need in the rural areas. I will NEVER compete with you for those jobs. ACT practices, on the other hand can and should hire either practitioner interchangably with supply and demand being the major driving force in the decision.

QUOTE]

I would never wish to cause someone to be unable to provide for his family. I do willfully however, help to impose the standards for anesthesia training designed by CRNA's. Why are we supposed to welcome AA's? Yes, I would like to see the abolition of all AA programs. Does the UAW welcome foreign workers? No other profession says, "Here's your competion, now play nicely together.". If you want to become an anesthetist, go to nursing school. Spend your time in the ICU. Go to CRNA school. Viola! You now have 50 state recognized credentials and are free from your legislative worries of the AA. Plus you now have the backing of 30, 000 brothers and sisters.

Since this debate is frequent, I'll put on a flame suit and say...

I did not voice any negatives about AA's. This is my opinion of CRNA preservation.

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