Is the AA profession gaining ground?

ralatek · Apr 25, 2007

When did CRNA's first get independence? It's only been 2001. Before that, there was no need to push for the AA's. The anesthesiologists are finally waking up. We haven't seen the full brunt of their resolve yet.

Please take time and research the facts before you post false statements. It is obvious you don't fully understand the history and current practice of nurse anesthetists.

GregRN · Apr 25, 2007

When did CRNA's first get independence? It's only been 2001. Before that, there was no need to push for the AA's. The anesthesiologists are finally waking up. We haven't seen the full brunt of their resolve yet.

Please forgive me, but a number of your posts have raised my suspicions as to who you really are and what your personal motivations may be in anesthesia. Care to share?

n_g · Apr 26, 2007

I support increased access to anesthesia care. That means having more providers and that's why I support AA's. You are all hypocrites with your arguments that AA's are less capable than CRNA's. It's the same arguments that the MD's used against CRNA's. AA's and CRNA's with 3 years of experience are the same. We are shooting ourselves in the foot by being so aggressive with our demands for full autonomy. We are now waking up the sleeping giant. The naive of you will laugh and say it won't happen. But we who have seen more battles know better. I am seeing more agitation now from the other side than ever before. Enjoy your time now because it will not last.

georgia_aa · Apr 26, 2007

Please don't lump me into that group. I have two very good friends who are beginning AA programs: one at Case Western, one at Emory. We look forward to one day all coming back to CO and working together when we've all graduated. Maybe I'm in the minority but I actually welcome AA's. There is PLENTY of work for all of us for many, many years to come.

Greg - I have no doubt that you are a good guy and mean what you say. However, you ARE against AAs if you are a dues paying member of the AANA. A percentage of every dollar that you pay to them goes directly towards efforts severely curtail or eliminate AA practice rights. You can't have it both ways. If you disagree with what your national organization is doing then I hope that you are voicing your opposition in some way other than posting it on a nursing forum. Otherwise, you are paying to put your friends out of work.

deepz · Apr 26, 2007

........you ARE against AAs if you are a dues paying member of the AANA. A percentage of every dollar that you pay to them goes directly towards efforts severely curtail or eliminate AA practice rights. ........

More A$A baloney. Here's a factual antidote:

CRNA-PAC takes care of lobbying and such political functions.

AANA dues are a separate matter entirely, funds never co-mingled.

GregRN · Apr 30, 2007

Greg - I have no doubt that you are a good guy

Though the former "Mrs. GregRN" may have a different opinion, you are kind for saying so. :)

However, you ARE against AAs if you are a dues paying member of the AANA. A percentage of every dollar that you pay to them goes directly towards efforts severely curtail or eliminate AA practice rights. You can't have it both ways. If you disagree with what your national organization is doing then I hope that you are voicing your opposition in some way other than posting it on a nursing forum. Otherwise, you are paying to put your friends out of work.

I s'pose I could be sneaky and say that I don't belong to the AANA. While that statement is certainly factual, it's not entirely entirely truthful. The reason I'm not a member of the AANA is that I'm just a lowly CRNA hopeful, currently in the process of applying to various programs.

I never said I disagreed with what the AANA is proposing and pushing for, and at the same time I never said I agreed with it. I'll be honest: I haven't studied it enough to form an opinion either way. What I don't agree with is any of the three groups of anesthesia providers claiming one group is "safer" than the other. Study after study is inconclusive. In fact, researcher bias will draw different conclusions from the same database (Surgical Mortality and Type of Anesthesia Provider, Michael Pine, MD and associates). I want evidence, I want results. So far, there isn't any.

I have absolutely no problem with AA programs opening up more slots for well trained, excellent anesthesia providers for the benefit of patients across the country and the betterment of personal career opportunities. What I'm opposed to, however, is the ASA using it as a political tool to continue keeping their thumb on my future profession for the sole purpose of lining their own pockets. They do this under the cloak of "patient safety," yet no evidence to back it up. It's ridiculous.

Absolutely I will become a member of the AANA when eligible and will gladly pay whatever membership dues are required. While I may not agree with EVERYTHING the organization says and does, they are still my (future) voice in CRNA issues. It is a very large, very powerful organization which, without it, many current CRNA's would have been relegated to no more than being on the receiving end of, "Please pass the sux."

CerebralCRNA · May 5, 2007

Well... I read THAT and absolutely laughed MY you know what off. Smearing a profession with no outcome studies to back it up?? Why the audacity of it!!! You guys kill me.

The Pine Study in 2003 took THOUSANDS of cases from a national healthcare database and compared outcomes and found no difference you might want to check that out.

If your at all familiar with statistics you would understand that the ASA will not (and knows this, just read the Federal Trade Commission transcripts from 2003) win the statistical argument. You would need MILLIONS of cases to see if there (if any) was a difference. Insurance companies and hospital CEOs also understand the implications of an infinitely small effect size. The reasons that our future are not in jeopardy are 1) we have to ability NOT to work directly under an anesthesiologist and 2) our ability to perform in this more independent fashion offers a fiscally responsible option for hospitals to provide surgical and anesthesia services to their patients. Additionally, legislators "know" the value of an infinitely small effect size. Would you want to be the Governor who passes legislation that results in the immediate removal of services to hundreds of thousands of potential voters?

platon20 · May 7, 2007

Would you want to be the Governor who passes legislation that results in the immediate removal of services to hundreds of thousands of potential voters?

And this is exactly why over hte long term, the AANA will lose the smear campaign they are fighting against AAs. State legislatures over the long haul will not block AAs from practicing their trade simply because the AANA is afraid of competition for jobs.

Thats why the voted to allow CRNAs to practice when MDAs didnt want them to, and its also why they will eventually allow AAs to practice everywhere, despite the greed/selfish motivations of the AANA.

deepz · May 7, 2007

.......Thats why the voted to allow CRNAs to practice when MDAs didnt want them to...........

You really need to study the history of anesthesia before you go on pontificating. Nurse anesthetists have long been the mainstay of American anesthesia, long before anesthesiologists discovered how much moola could be made performing our nursing duties.

CMS recognizes featherbedding when they see it.

gadbas · May 23, 2007

You nurses work hard. Therefore, you all believe that you should be at the top of the medical food chain. But guess what? You are not. You are not doctors or anywhere near the equivalent of doctors. If the prestige was so important to you, why didn't you just go to medical school? Did you really think you could back door your way into being a doctor? CRNAs had it great for quite a while. You all were making big $$ and had a great thing going. But now your greed has completely ruined it for you. You couldn't accept making 100K+ as a NURSE, you had to go after the anesthesiologists salary. You have bit the hand that feeds you, woke a sleeping giant and you will be squashed. AA programs will start rolling with full support from the ASA and they will replace you. Why? Because they are willing to do the job that you greedy nurses no longer want to do. Which is to be an anesthesia ASSISTANT. To HELP in the anesthesia care team model and not think they are captain of the ship. I will watch the CRNA empire fall over the next 10-20 years with a giant smile on my face. I will never hire or work with a CRNA and have many many residents starting out who have the same views. Bye bye big headed nurses... hope you enjoy going back to changing bed pans.

tifffear · May 25, 2007

I love this response. I am not a CRNA, just a hopeful. I was reading an anesthesiology forum and found it interesting to read what MD's are saying about CRNA's (basically it is similar to what CRNA's say about AA's). I decided that the anesthesiologist route was not for me because of the cost and the length of time I had to be in school. I was just curious to who often one would hear CRNA's compare themselves to an MD. It just seems like, well, stupid. I agree with your statement to the fullest. All I want to do is become a CRNA I know my boundaries.

gadbas · May 25, 2007

I love this response. I am not a CRNA, just a hopeful. I was reading an anesthesiology forum and found it interesting to read what MD's are saying about CRNA's (basically it is similar to what CRNA's say about AA's). I decided that the anesthesiologist route was not for me because of the cost and the length of time I had to be in school. I was just curious to who often one would hear CRNA's compare themselves to an MD. It just seems like, well, stupid. I agree with your statement to the fullest. All I want to do is become a CRNA I know my boundaries.

Those are completely understandable reasons to chose the CRNA route. It is a good career! But your militant co-workers are ruining it for everyone. Anesthesiology, aside from being a great job, has been a cash cow for everyone for years. Why is it so bad to continue working under supervision for well over 100K per year as a nurse? You joined the nursing profession to be a nurse, which is a very admirable profession. The word NURSE on a nursing board is used like it's a dirty word. Be proud of your profession but also understand that you are not the docs, no matter how much you think you know. So all of you militant CRNAs should try to learn something from tiff. Know your boundaries. If you want to be the top dog, just go to med school. Trust me, it's not all that it's cracked up to be.