Interview etiquette for finding out the pay!!!

CRNA1906 · Mar 27, 2009

Interesting - because I would never, ever take a job without asking about benefits and pay. Every interview I've ever had - I've asked. Why would I not want to know about benefits? What if the benefits suck - why would I keep considering the position?
I wouldn't.
In fact, nine times out of ten - they bring that stuff to the interview! Pay and bennies are how the company sells itself to you - which is part of their job in the interview. ESPECIALLY during a nursing shortage. I walked out of every hospital with a little sheet ENUMERATING their benefits in black and white!
And if my asking put off the recruiter - then, sorry, but unfortunately I take that as unprofessionalism on the part of the recruiter, and I wouldn't want to work for the hospital as a result.
I've never not gotten a job I've applied for - and I've asked about benefits every time. And in school - we were told to ask. The person applying has a right to know. An interview is a two-way street - especially with a nursing shortage - and the person applying has every right to ask the professional equivalent of "what's in it for me if I work for you"? If I was told in an interview that the company doesn't discuss that until they make an offer - what kind of company are they, and what are they hiding? Fat copays with their health insurance? A thousand dollar dental deductible? Crappy retirement options? Nuts.
I got four job offers from the four hospitals that I applied to in October/November 2007 - just before I graduated and before I took the NCLEX - and every one of the recruiters got asked about starting hourly salary and benefits.
Recruiter: "Do you have any questions for us?" - this is usually at the close of the interview.
Me: "Could you tell me about your benefits packages?"
And then me again: "Could you possibly tell me your starting salary for new grads? What is the current clinical ladder/career progression program?"
(and the other question: "What type of support/program do you offer for new grads in their first year?")
You can bet the place that quoted me three bucks an hour less than Duke's per hour didn't get a followup call from me - because they couldn't follow it up with sexy health insurance or any type of loan payback assistance. Had they 'fessed up something awesome, my commute might be a bit longer than what it is. :) Sometimes compromises are appropriate.
You don't know what they have if you don't ask. What if you don't ask, and part of the bennies are a six grand bonus after one year for your loans? And you didn't know that because you didn't ask, and the recruiter wasn't with it enough to tell you, or you were his/her tenth interview that day, and they could have cared less? It happens, folks. (Uncle Sam will take his cut, yes - but money's money.)
I asked every hospital - and the recruiters nearly killed themselves to sell their stuff to me. I was pretty sure of where I was going to work anyway - because of what I knew Duke had on the table for me as a Duke grad - but I didn't put my eggs in one basket. If the benefits here had stunk (and while they're not the gold standard I certainly can't complain), I would have probably not worked for DUMC - because benefits are a big deal for me - as they are for most people.
Actually, now that I think about it, all the hospitals at our job fair when I was in school TOLD us what they were paying.
How can a person - especially an RN in the middle of places CLAMORING for bodies - be expected to make an informed decision when the likelihood of multiple job offers is high? Why would you keep waiting for a phone call from someplace with nasty benefits? No thanks.
You have an RN license. These places want you. Let them sell themselves to you as hard as you're working to sell yourself to them. I have never, ever been told asking about starting salary for new grads was unprofessional - if it's done correctly. Preposterous. And trust me when I say I want to know what their retirement benefits are (and most of the time, these places are sticking this stuff on their websites anyway - about benefits, I mean) and what kinds of health insurance they have.
Mind you, that starting salary is definitely non-negotiable - but what if one place is paying five bucks an hour more than the other (unlikely, I know, but it could happen), or one hospital has crappy health insurance coverage? Even three bucks (which is the case in our area) is a big difference - and then shift diffs also vary across the board. You have a right to know all this up front.
If you were experienced, I would say that the pay potentially becomes a touchier issue, but I swear to you I'd still ask.
On hospital websites, I've seen approximate starting pays right by the position description. So what's the big secret?
I don't know how you can make informed decisions without this information ahead of time - and keep in mind, I'm not twenty-one, I'm a couple of months shy of 36, and have worked more than one place in my life.
Do it professionally, by all means - but I see no reason why this is such a taboo question, and neither does anyone else I've polled on this topic either.
Sorry - for some reason this has put me right on my soapbox.

Carolinapooh,

Please PM me or contact me about DUKE.

CRNA1906

puffinsrule · Mar 27, 2009

I went through career training once when I was between jobs. Their advice was - whichever person brings up salary first loses. So, like many of the posters here, my advice is to work on the interview and selling yourself, get the job and then they will bring up the issue of money.

MrChicagoRN, RN · Mar 28, 2009

One reason man places won't discuss money is that aren't looking for someone that's looking purely at the paycheck.

You need to make an adequate salary, but other factors to consider are job duties, educational & career opportunities, working conditions, unit culture, benefits, and whether the unit is a good fit or not.

The medical center I work for offers a very good salary, benefits, and plenty of opportunity, but it is not their goal to offer the highest pay. And we have little trouble attracting top drawer people.

Asking about the $$$ upfront makes the recruiter think you are just shopping for dollars. New grad rates are usually fixed; if they offer it up, fine. Otherwise, ask plenty of questions about the job & simply bide your time.

ninjacat · Mar 28, 2009

For what it's worth, the starting level pay and differentials at the hospitals around here was standard for new grads. HR from two institutions came and talked with us during our last semester and laid all of that information out for us before we even started the information process. Also, pay and benefits were discussed during the initial interviews with HR before we went on to interview with nurse managers, though they weren't the initial topics discussed by any means. The recruiter brought them up after other discussions of your background, interests, strengths, etc. I guess maybe it isn't standard practice, but I liked it that way.

And for what it's worth jobs seem to be hard to come by nowadays, at least when my classmates and I were applying. From what I know, some still don't have jobs.

Laura

graduated Dec '08

missjennmb · Mar 28, 2009

Dude, you're GOLDEN! You have the power to negotiate because of your ample experience. Us new grad peons just get to take what they offer and deal with it....not that it's really all that horrible.

Sorry but I completely disagree with this! (not about the other poster being in a position of leverage)

Its all about how you sell yourself. Thats why its important to sell them on hiring you before you ask about money. I am a nursing student, and I am not going to just "take what I'm offered and deal with it". I have many talents and experiences unrelated to nursing that I bring to the table, and I have certain expectations of any job I take, regardless of the field.

I much prefer the method of interviewing where I sell my product (me) and THEN find out what they are willing to pay, because while I may be worth bottom of the barrel pay walking in the door, by the time I walk out they will be convinced that I am eons ahead of most (hopefully all) of the other applicants, by my life experience, mannerisms, self confidence, ect. It also gives me the opportunity to find out more about the work environment because if I *REALLY* love the people and get an immensely warm welcome and a good vibe, I will take less than if its cold and impersonal and unfriendly an atmosphere.

cornpoohRN · Mar 29, 2009

One reason man places won't discuss money is that aren't looking for someone that's looking purely at the paycheck.
You need to make an adequate salary, but other factors to consider are job duties, educational & career opportunities, working conditions, unit culture, benefits, and whether the unit is a good fit or not.
The medical center I work for offers a very good salary, benefits, and plenty of opportunity, but it is not their goal to offer the highest pay. And we have little trouble attracting top drawer people.
Asking about the $$$ upfront makes the recruiter think you are just shopping for dollars. New grad rates are usually fixed; if they offer it up, fine. Otherwise, ask plenty of questions about the job & simply bide your time.

I agree, Nursing is not just about $$, yes we do want to get compensated for what we do but there are other forms of compensation. I was one one of the fortunate few that even got any interview, no one else in my class that I know of got one. Like I said in an earlier post, it is "the" hospital to work at and I consider myself blessed to have gotten an interview. They shut the application online access down 8 days early because they "were swamped with applications". To me that shows that this is a great place to work if so many people want to work there and just how competitive it is out there for new grads. (I live in a market where there are 6 NS in a 45 mile radius that are graduating almost 1000 students this May.)

Their residency program has an excellent reputation so I consider the experience that I will gain compensation as well. With that being said.....an offer has not been made YET! That is supposed to be the first week in April which is right around the corner so I am praying that that is where I am supposed to be. They will only take 6 or 7 residents for this particular specialty. The HR rep who was there (but was not in on the interview) told me that I should hear something then so I guess she would be the source of the compensation.

Thanks for your advice!!:wink2:

cornpoohRN · Mar 29, 2009

Sorry but I completely disagree with this! (not about the other poster being in a position of leverage)
Its all about how you sell yourself. Thats why its important to sell them on hiring you before you ask about money. I am a nursing student, and I am not going to just "take what I'm offered and deal with it". I have many talents and experiences unrelated to nursing that I bring to the table, and I have certain expectations of any job I take, regardless of the field.
I much prefer the method of interviewing where I sell my product (me) and THEN find out what they are willing to pay, because while I may be worth bottom of the barrel pay walking in the door, by the time I walk out they will be convinced that I am eons ahead of most (hopefully all) of the other applicants, by my life experience, mannerisms, self confidence, ect. It also gives me the opportunity to find out more about the work environment because if I *REALLY* love the people and get an immensely warm welcome and a good vibe, I will take less than if its cold and impersonal and unfriendly an atmosphere.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree-a little. You can sell yourself with experience, certifications and specialties and get more $$ but as a new grad you are limited to starting pay and jobs. Ask anyone in this thread or forum or whatever. Yes you can sell those characteristics that you mentioned but I don't think it will increase your starting pay. I believe there is not very much wiggle room as far as $$ for new grads starting out.

missjennmb · Mar 29, 2009

as I think i mentioned in my earlier post, I've seen the behind the scenes in the hospital employee files and I can attest that this is simply not the case (that there is no room to move). Maybe if you are fresh out of high school and have no other relevant experiences, and maybe if you are equivalent with every other person who walks in the door, *maybe* but you're kidding yourself if you think employers just see you as a body in a spot and worth the same exact pay as everyone else.

I have SEEN the files at a hospital where they swore they had a set starting pay for new grads, and its simply NOT the case. I come from sales where playing hardball for the best pay is the norm and not the exception, so I guess I'm just really shocked that so many people seem to be surprised and offended by this idea.

cornpoohRN · Mar 29, 2009

as I think i mentioned in my earlier post, I've seen the behind the scenes in the hospital employee files and I can attest that this is simply not the case (that there is no room to move). Maybe if you are fresh out of high school and have no other relevant experiences, and maybe if you are equivalent with every other person who walks in the door, *maybe* but you're kidding yourself if you think employers just see you as a body in a spot and worth the same exact pay as everyone else.
I have SEEN the files at a hospital where they swore they had a set starting pay for new grads, and its simply NOT the case. I come from sales where playing hardball for the best pay is the norm and not the exception, so I guess I'm just really shocked that so many people seem to be surprised and offended by this idea.

Well right now.....I am shocked at how naive you are being if you think that you are going to graduate from NS and walk into HR when and if you get an interview and demand a pay that they are not willing to pay a new grad no matter how much charisma you have. I mentioned that there might be very little wiggle room but not much. My post/question involved information about a residency program, not just a position as a RN orienting on the floor with a preceptor. While I know I will be compensated fairly with $$ and a valued training, I am not going to blow it by trying to play hardball when there are 100's of other qualified candidates that want this position as well. I am happy with my decision and I am doing what I want to be doing.

LuLu2008 · Mar 29, 2009

Well, it seems we are all over the map about this important subject! What is interesting to me is that we have a so-called "nursing shortage" which would imply that nurses would be sought after by employers. Reading through the various messages on this subject, so many people are saying they are "lucky to get an interview" or "one of many people who applied for one opening." People who are new grads versus seasoned nurses seem to have widely differing experiences, opportunities and insights. I have to chuckle every time I see a job forecast for future secure jobs, and healthcare is listed. So many people are being churned out of so many programs that employers don't seem to really be looking very hard to fill vacancies.

MrChicagoRN, RN · Mar 31, 2009

Jobs are tight right now because of the economy.

Employers are keeping it lean, and many nurses are holding tight to their positions or continuing to work, when they might otherwise be mobile or opt out of the market to raise families, etc.

Many may be married to spouses with jobs in jeopardy, so they're more likely to stay in their jobs.

In a few years we'll be in nursing deficit mode again.

cornpoohRN · Apr 1, 2009

In my city there are so many RN positions postings in various types of ads in 10+ major hospitals in the metro area, however just because the jobs are posted and there are vacancies that does not mean they are hiring. Many of these facilities are on a hiring freeze. Hopefully it will change for the better soon.