International Student: In Need Of Help And Advice, Please!

Silverdragon102, BSN · Jan 5, 2008

Hi Markus and welcome to the site

I have moved your post to the International forum as things are slightly different.

Are you sure by the time you parents are in the US and have a greencard you will? Things vary depending on age and if may time out depending on age. Just trying to find more info on this for you

You may have problems transferring credits as they may not be recognised. Nurse training is not free in the US unlike the UK. Sometimes credits are not recognised within the state of if move from one state to another

Things to be aware is that UK training does not always match requirements for the US as UK nursing is more specialised but you could come to some agreements with the uni and ensure study both practical and theory in all areas ie midwifery, mental health, paeds and general.

Suzanne would be able to give you better advice but you will need to pay in the US and may be looking at International fees.

suzanne4, RN · Jan 6, 2008

Would not plan on transferring mid-program; you will find it very hard to do as most schools do not accept full transfer of hours mid-program. Add into it the fact that the training is done differently over here. Would highly recommend that you complete your training there, and get your RN, then come to the US to complete your BSN. That is going to be the best way for you to do at this time. We also have long waiting lists for many of the programs here for the initial training.

The transfer students that they are speaking of are those that have already completed the RN at the ADN level and wish to continue on with their studies. Not transferrring from another country midway through a program.

Even if trying to transfer to another school here in the same city, they do not accept many of the hours; again, complete your program where you are and then come here for the BSN.

The CRNA programs require at least the BSN, but also work experience as an RN in the critical care arena for at least a year to get into a program. Be aware that it is currently harder to get into the CRNA programs than it is to medical school at this time.

If you have been accepted to a program there, I would complete it there and then go onto the next step. One needs the other, it does not matter the age of the student. But the fact that they made it thru their program and actually graduated.

Best of luck with your schooling.

!80s Love Child! · Jan 6, 2008

Thank You so much to silverdragon and suzanne for your pieces of advice and information. :up:

However, I still have a few more questions to ask:

1. Is the BSN program offered as an undergraduate course in the US or do undergraduate US students need to be RN's also?

2. Can an RN apply directly to US Medical Schools or would they need a BSN first? This is because if I can't be a CRNA they I might do Medicine.

3. Can anybody please tell me which area/specialty in Nursing I need to have experience in (at least for 1 year) as an RN to enter in a CRNA program in the US?

4. Regarding the RN-BSN program offered in Dundee University, Scotland: do US hospitals and CRNA universities accept the accreditation right? So effectively, if I do the online program in Dundee I can have a BSN degree (like a top-up)?

Any info would be really appreciated! Thank You in advance!!!

Markus. :)

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jan 6, 2008

Thank You so much to silverdragon and suzanne for your pieces of advice and information.
However, I still have a few more questions to ask:
1. Is the BSN program offered as an undergraduate course in the US or do undergraduate US students need to be RN's also?
There are several tracks to the BSN, the generic are not nurses, but there is a RN to BSN track which are all RNs. The RN generic program s very competitive and Rn to BSN easier ( that is why the advice to complete your RN first)
2. Can an RN apply directly to US Medical Schools or would they need a BSN first? This is because if I can't be a CRNA they I might do Medicine.
You need to complete a a premed program, many of your BSN courses will count but not all, you need to complete college to get into medical school which is very hard to get into.
3. Can anybody please tell me which area/specialty in Nursing I need to have experience in (at least for 1 year) as an RN to enter in a CRNA program in the US?
Critical care nursing ( ICU)
4. Regarding the RN-BSN program offered in Dundee University, Scotland: do US hospitals and CRNA universities accept the accreditation right? So effectively, if I do the online program in Dundee I can have a BSN degree (like a top-up)?
As long as NLN approved should not be an issue.
Any info would be really appreciated! Thank You in advance!!!
Markus. :)

See above responses. I believe to get federal aide you have to be a US citizen.

suzanne4, RN · Jan 6, 2008

The issue is that you must pass the NCLEX-RN exam first off, and get experience working in a critical care area for at least one year. Most that enter the CRNA programs have about five years of experience on average before they start.

Are you actually aware of the job that the CRNAa do? Would recommend that you have a look at the pre-CRNA forum that we have on Allnurses.com, it can be found under the specialty tab.

Pre-med track is different from the BSN programs and requires additional coursework in the sciences as pre-reqs. I would focus on getting thru a program that is going to take you four years at the minimum before focusing on what you will do next. You may actually like nursing and wish to stay with that in the first place.

US hospitals are interested in the US license and the fact that someone can work as an RN. Whether or not you have the BSN when you start really does not matter. Getting the BSN on-line is something that is not started until you already have gotten thru your first program and have made it to licensure as an RN. What the requirements will be three years from now, even two years from now, is anyone's guess at this point.

Medical school and CRNA programs are going to both require exceptional credentials to get accepted. I would focus on just getting thru the first part before anything else. Things do change and you may find that you like something else altogether by the time that you have gotten thru even part of your rotations.

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What type of status do your parents have now in relation to US immigration, you keep mentioning that they will have green card status by the time that you expect to be transferring, but be aware that you will be over 21 at that time, so normally will not be included with them in their petition. Not sure how they are expecting to have green card status in the next two years if they are not already in the US under some type of visa in the first place.

Green card status means just that, it is not residency. You will be expected to pay your tution in most cases as federal aid is paid for by our taxes. You do not get federal aid for the programs that you are speaking of such as medical school or the CRNA program. You will be acquring loans that will need to be repaid, and with the CRNA schooling it can be in the neighborhood of about $150,000 by the time that you are done. You need to factor in living expenses as you cannot work while attending school, you are going to have more work than you ever imaginied would be possible.

!80s Love Child! · Jan 7, 2008

Thank You so much again, suzanne4! You have actually covered all of my queries.

I originally thought that if you have a 'green card' then you are classed as a US permanent resident who has the right to live and work permanently and receive financial help from the government. I'm sorry but I sometimes find US websites slightly confusing (maybe because of the jargons used. Anyway.) http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/greencard.html

You and silverdragon are actually right that I won't be petitioned after 3+ years because I will be over 21 by the time the processing starts. At least by the time I finish my Nursing degree, review for and pass my NCLEX-RN and gain at least 2 years work experience in a UK hospital then I would be able to achieve the same status as them eventually. My mother is actually a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit Specialist nurse Level III (which I believe in a very in-demand job at the moment in the US?) and already have spoken to an agency who will give her a hospital work placement, subject to passing the NCLEX-RN exam perhaps in the beginning of next year. We have the UK Passport. I, myself, have started skimming through her NCLEX revision books and started listening to her audio study .mp3s as well Hehe. Too early I know. Looks like I would have to earn my own green card by finding an agency/hospital willing to take me, and eventually neutralize and become a US Citizen - could take 5 years + I know, hehe.

I have also read somewhere in UCLA's website that tuition fees for US citizens AND permanent residents (Green card holders/those petitioned) are the same. Non-residents/international students will have to pay more obviously. And I don't want to receive education in the US before I become a citizen first. And I also thought that loans are exactly the same as Federal Aid. Here comes jargon again hehe. You're right, perhaps I just misunderstood that one.

Yes, I am very much aware of the job specifications of a certified registered nurse anesthetist. In fact, I have been reading through CRNA threads on studentdoctornetwork as well and am also aware of the current issues concerning pay scales for CRNAs v.s. Doctors'. Over here, they are termed as simply Nurse Anaesthetists.

Perhaps I should just stick to 1 plan at a time - that is to get a degree first in the UK. It's just that I'm the sort of person who would like to plan ahead and with this very helpful nursing forum, it kind of provokes me to ask 'premature' questions. Hehe, my bad.

Thank you once again for your time and effort in helping me and also for correcting my misconceptions. :up:

Markus.

suzanne4, RN · Jan 7, 2008

Permanent residents are just that, they are still guests in the US. Most money that is available for tuition is in the tune of a loan, it is not out and out help and needs to be paid back eventually.

It takes five years of being a green card holder in the US before you can qualify for citizenship in the US. Tuition is expensive here, no two ways about it, and for grad school is even more expensive. Getting a loan is not as easy as you think when you first arrive in the US.

Not sure about your mother and a green card next year, there are many that have been waiting for several years in the UK for visas to become available again. It does not matter what her specialty is but the fact that there are no visas available and there have not been any for more than 15 months at this point. If she has not even written the NCLEX exam as of yet, it is going to be impossible for her to get a green card next year. Does not matter what an agency promises, they have nothing to do with the issuing of a green card at all. It takes months to even get approval on the I-140, some have been waiting close to a year for that, and then she is hit by the retrogression. Suggest that you do some reading about that. Currently, the US is working on petitions from 2001/2002. So she is getting very poor information from this agency.

I would advise checking out some of the threads on the retrogression, there is also much on the UK forum about it.

There is not one specialty that is more in demand for the US, but your mother's issue may be that she may not meet the requirements as a general nurse to be able to get licensed in the US, it is all based on what she did when she was in nursing school. Training afterwards has nothing to do with it, nor any influence on it.

suzanne4, RN · Jan 7, 2008

Not sure where your mother is in the licensing process, but no agency or hospital can even start the petitioning process until she has actually passed the NCLEX exam, not one thing can be started as that exam is required before anything can start. It takes an average of four to six months before one gets approval from a Board of Nursing to be able to actually sit for that exam. They cannot even legally offer a job to her without the exam being passed. And without a SSN#, if she is going to go thru CA, it will be a month before she can get her results and no license is issued without a SSN#.

There is no way that she will be able to be in the US and with a green card at the beginning of next year. This agency is not being honest with her at all.

!80s Love Child! · Jan 7, 2008

Okay, the permanent resident v.s. US Citizenship is clear to me now. Thanks:)

Yeah, I should speak to my mother about the whole agency and application thing as I might have got the whole story wrong. Oops. :mad:

And I don't know in detail about my mothers qualifications and/or training either apart from I know the fact that she's been a neonatal nurse for roughly 18 years now +. And yes she is very aware that she has to go back and study the general knowledge required for RNs in the US by reviewing the NCLEX. She needs all the best of luck she can get. And me too in 3 years time hehe.

Thanks, I should read more about the retrogression and other issues concerning visas and green cards, etc. on this forum. Many thanks once again.

Markus.

!80s Love Child! · Jan 7, 2008

Not sure where your mother is in the licensing process, but no agency or hospital can even start the petitioning process until she has actually passed the NCLEX exam, not one thing can be started as that exam is required before anything can start. It takes an average of four to six months before one gets approval from a Board of Nursing to be able to actually sit for that exam. They cannot even legally offer a job to her without the exam being passed. And without a SSN#, if she is going to go thru CA, it will be a month before she can get her results and no license is issued without a SSN#.
There is no way that she will be able to be in the US and with a green card at the beginning of next year. This agency is not being honest with her at all.

Thank you very much for your concern. And I think she is very aware of the fact that she has to do the NCLEX-RN exam first before everything else can be processed. In fact she is planning to take the exam in California so she can get the exam results back as soon as possible.

Perhaps it is me to blame and not the agency as I don't really know the full details/story of the processing she's going through.

But please keep in mind that all these things I've mentioned such as getting an online BSN, wanting to become a CRNA or applying for med school etc. are all plans. And I was saying all of my future plans for anyone to criticise if it would be possible/effective or not. And yeah I should take things one at a time. It's not an all-in-one go thing. Thanks so much! :up: :)

suzanne4, RN · Jan 7, 2008

That is another false bit of information that your mother has. CA does not issue a license if she does not have a SSN# and she cannot get that until she has been thru the immigration process. It is actually about four weeks before she will get her results, it is sent by snail mail and the results are not mailed until about 2 1/2 weeks after the exam is written.

CA is actually the slowest state in the US for getting results, definitely not fast at all. Taking the exam in CA will not speed up her results, the issue is that she does not have a SSN#.

If you take the time to do some reading here, you will see that CA is never recommended for initial licensure if the nurse does not have a SSN#. They do not issue a hard license when the exam is passed, only a letter is issued and that letter expires in three years. If no visa by then, the file is destroyed. There has been much talk of this lately on this forum. Also since no license is issued, there is nothing that can be endorsed to another state if the need arises. Everything starts over again from the beginning, with License by Examination process and CA has to submit proof of passing but that is the only thing that can be done.

Because an agency is promising something, it does not mean that there will even be a job in the locale that the nurse wants when the time comes. Hospitals are not waiting to fill a position for several years and if there is no proof of a job when the time for the interview arrives, then the petitions will be denied. I am mentioning this because we have seen it happen over and over again, and with nurses from all over the world.

Best of luck to you and your mother.