Instructor lecturing on ethics...

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

wow, i know it. let me share something with you.

i am a 4 year nursing student.

one of the instructors was lecturing on Ethics, and then had the class split into groups and work on a senario of a nurse student who cheated on an exam and her friend who sat by her-the one she cheated from-knew that she cheated, because after the exam the student who cheated mentioned it to her friend-the one she cheated from, and her friend told her that she needed to be honest about it and that it was not her problem, she was not the one that cheated......anyway you get the gest....that if cheating if found out the cheater gets kicked out of the program, and possibly the friend too........so....

some groups said that they would cover their own butt and report the cheater, some said that the honest friend should remain quiet (oh yea one more detail, the friend knew her friend was cheating from her during the exam, but only knew it at a certain time during the exam when she was almost completed) and tell her friend that she has to deal with it one her own, and that she was not going to report her...

now....this will blow you away..........the class asked the instructor what would she do....get this......this PhD of nursing said.....personally, I would have not told on her........and in my group we said well it is the Universities policy that both parties are responsible, and if the one being cheated from knows it and does not report it then that student is just as guilty.........get ready for this......the instuctor said, I still would not report it..........really hold on.......then the instructor told about a story where she was working in a hospital, and something happened, but she would not say, she said that there are only two people who know what happened in the hospital where she and another nurse worked..........all the groups just looked at each other and thought what the H***!!!!...

we all thought that did she cause someone to die, did she overdose a patient, what the crap did she do????

Now, you are an experienced nurse tell me your thoughts on this.

I believe in honesty, and owning up to my mistakes. It is not beyond me to say that Iwas wrong, and face the consequences, everybody has consequences to face, that is fact of life........but now I quesiton this instructor teaching this aspect for years.....

is this wrong?

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

I know. I just know that in my training as a police officer we were expected to credible in our reports that were presented to the courts. Yes, I have seen a lot of dishonesty in the nursing profession, but to have a nursing instructor claim that she had part in what she suggested that she and her fellow nurse only know about makes a student wonder about such a nurse. One girl in our group had made a good point. She said that she would not want a C nurse taking care of her, the dishonest nursing student, but the A student that knew herself the confidence of taking excellent care of someone. I do have to agree with the girl in my group.

Personally, I see false documentation as a reportable offense. We are taught when we do our nursing documentation we are to tell the truth, and not let someone else document for us. Now, if the nursing instuctor is going to say she and another nurse will always hide something then there was something wrong that they did, otherwise what would someone want to hide the truth?

Fasle documentation is a no-no.

I do not trust any one enough with my nursing career to know that I documented contrary to the benifit of the patient's well being. I am just to honest in that regard. Just imagine if the doctor found out that a nurse frauded any kind of reporting of the patient.

i do not mean to be going on and on about how I feel about the way an instructor is representing herself as a professional in front of impressional freshman nursing students-because the nursing instuctor is good otherwise in her teachings, it is just that I see in my thoughts about how everybody was reacting to her telling this story about herself, and it was like everybody just looked at each other, and really wondered had she went to far in sharing this aspect of her professional career, and one student said, what was it that you are hiding, and she said she would never tell. We all just really looked at each other and though what the heck!!!

So, enough of this. I will be honest in my profession, and I will not cover anyone in the wrong doing of any aspect of taking care of a human life. I will only be in favor and participate in doing the right thing right for a patient to the best of my ability. I have worked with many police officers who lost their jobs for being dishonest in their paper work/reports prepared and presented to a court of law. If I am not mistaking, falsifying patient records can be a form of assult on patients, or perhaps neglect.

I just think that it is better not to hide things that could potentially hurt a patient, or lose credibility as a nurse.

[leslie :-D]

I will be honest in my profession, and I will not cover anyone in the wrong doing of any aspect of taking care of a human life. I will only be in favor and participate in doing the right thing right for a patient to the best of my ability.

and i agree with you 100%.

i would hope that 99.9% of nurses would agree with you.

but it's kind of a huge leap:

from the ethics/lack of reporting a cheater to falsifying documentation, don't you think?

while i did say that i wouldn't report someone caught copying my test (but would give him grief) the first time, i would NEVER even consider falsifying my nn's.

it is not such a slippery slope for most of us, i assure you.

rather, this is a huge peeve of mine, nurses/people who lie through their teeth.

so while there are some who wouldn't report the 1st-time-caught-cheater, please do not automatically assume that we would endorse anything illegal/unethical when it comes to our pts.

leslie:nurse:

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

yep, i agree with you on the cheating situation 100%.

I am taking a Logic class this summer, and a Cultural Studies class, I am hoping to maybe find some answers to a lot of quesitons I have for life in general, and will hopefully find some Logical reason that will educate me on this issue. I had on ethics class, a medical ethics class, and even my nursing assistant class I learned not to fudge patient records, and to avoid being part of involuntarily knowing about such an incident ( reportable incident?), and I know I have an image of being honest and nice to people. I worked with a lot of criminals and juvenile deliquents, and there are a lot of Judges who trust me, I even worked with the FBI and Secret Service, people just cannot simply lie, or withhold the truth, and not report anyone for frauding any humanistic system-period-for any reason. I am too honest, I know, but my parents also reared me to be honest, my mother a PhD in Theology, and my father a PhD in music-and a marine, and a sister who is a nurse-an honest nurse, and a good nurse-and loves to take care of people. I was born to be honest, and will die an honest person.

I cannot fix someone elses situation, but I can learn in my heart and my mind, and from the best conclusion as to how I will handle this situation that is on my mind as a freshman nursing student. I am paying a lot of money to be taught to be an honest nurse, for I already have lived an honest life thus far not being a nurse.

I know that there are good nurses, and there are bad nurses. Usually, bad people, in my experience, weed themselves out of public positions, learned that in law enforcement, and in other good employment positions I held. Bad nurse, no way can live with themselves, no one can live with themselves if they are dishonest.

I am strong :yeah:when it comes to displaying a high standard of living when helping people.

I have enjoyed these last six weeks of rest. Nursing is hard enough without an instructors saying that she and another nurse she worked with are hiding something to this day, maybe she is not being honest about that, who knows, but she had a PhD, and it just did not go well with a lot of the students.

[leslie :-D]

Bad nurse, no way can live with themselves, no one can live with themselves if they are dishonest.

this is where we disagree.

i personally think that bad nurses/people, have no problems living with themselves, for they lack a conscience.

they lack the moral fortitude needed to repent and redeem themselves...

and will go through life, repeating and reinforcing their dishonest ways.

leslie

[Whispera, MSN, RN]

I'd be tempted to go talk to the instructor (after you graduate) and tell her what your thoughts and feelings about the situation are. Sincerely, she needs to STOP telling her students what she told your class. Not only was she promoting unethical behavior, but she lowered your respect for her and may for other instructors. She is not making a good impression!

[hikernurse]

The fact that the instructor didn't tell you what she did doesn't necessarily make it a big

bad thing. She said there was something that only she and another nurse knew about at the time and that it's still between them. Her point could have been that she is able to keep her counsel.

I think the point that some of the posters are making is that everything isn't black and white--although it sure would be easier if it were . If a nurse is doing something incorrectly (not having caused harm to a patient, but with the potential to do so), there are a couple of different things one can do; run to management or approach the nurse with your concerns. Often, approaching the nurse, person to person, with the intent to improve, rather than punish, solves the problem.

I think the main error your professor made is in talking to freshman who may not have the life experience to understand what she meant--but I suspect you will one day :).

I appreciate your candor and your idealism; it will serve you well on your journey to becoming a nurse. Nurses advocate for their patients and you're well on your way :).

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

i see what you are saying Leslie, and I agree to an extent. I just hope and pray that it would not be the case that people without a conscious would become nurses, usually people testify to becoming a nurse are people who have that calling to be a nurse, to take care of people, to help people from the goodness of their heart, and those are the ones with the truthness of nursing.

Everybody is born with a conscious. The conscious is one piece of patients that comes to surface when we address the on Gordon's Functional Patterns-Spiritual level, and patients do tell you they believe in God, or their God, I am not descriminatory at all-I believe in diversity to the fullest extent-and that area of a patients life is so important to the patient, and they draw all sorts of goodness from that area of their life. People who choose to be mean, and dishonest are SCARED people and UNSURE people; therefore, what a lot of people say is that person has no conscious. Maladaptive individuals appear to have no conscious, but really they do.

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

hikernurse,

i really liked you little verse on house cleaning. I need to learn to let my house go in that very respect. It is hard to keep a clean house and do nursing assignments.

I am going to try this. Clean my house, and stay out of it as much as possible. I am going to go swimming next week.......find things to do that gets me out of the house.

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

I want to be a good nurse, not just ordinary

[hikernurse]

hikernurse,

i really liked you little verse on house cleaning. I need to learn to let my house go in that very respect. It is hard to keep a clean house and do nursing assignments.

I am going to try this. Clean my house, and stay out of it as much as possible. I am going to go swimming next week.......find things to do that gets me out of the house.

It's a good quote :). I used to study outside when I could (not so much with January snows...). It smells good and feels good and I'm never tempted to do the dishes when I can't see them, LOL.

And as far as keeping a clean house and going to nursing school at the same time??? Give that up now, you have to choose one or the other, LOL

[doesanyoneknowwhy]

gotcha!! thanks!!

[Cul2]

I don't mean to simplify complex ethical situations. Those of us responding weren't there to hear

what the nurse instructor said or hear how it was said. But my point is this: When does one

actually become a professional in the true sense of the word? When does one start practicing

the ethics of a profession? Is there some magic moment, maybe when one gets once's license?

Or when one gets a certificate or passes a test? I don't think so. I believe it's an attitude, an

attitude of professionalism. And that comes out of one's character and then is either practiced

or neglected as one is being trained. One had better start behaving like a professional ethically

when one is in nursing or medical or law school. Don't expect that all of a sudden, when you get

your license, you'll automatically become a professional and the ethics will come with it. The ethics

are habit, they are attitude, they are integrity. And that is not only part of who we are, it is also

what we make ourselves as we confront difficult decisions. We either practice making ethical

every day or we don't. There's no middle ground. If we walk away from ethical decisions, that

an making a decision.