Immigration Status Questions To Expand To Healthcare?

[Keysnurse2008]

hi guys! i was wondering if i could get some input on your thoughts regarding where healthcare is heading with our illegal immigrants.in a town very near mine they have made our local sheriff's departments deputies be appoinyed/deputized also as federal immigration/ins workers,.so now ...they patrol for illegal immigrants...anytime they stop anyone who "appears" to maybe be here illgally they have the authority to detain them and actually contact ins to begin deportation back to their home country.this.....worries me that it may actually trend over into healthcare...so that when a patient enter thru those er doors one of the first questions they may be asked is "what is your immigration status?".already...as many of us know alot of illegal immigrants wait until they are so very sick..so very very sick....before they even seek healthcare treatment.i'd hate to think what will happen...when ...or ...if...we have to begin patroling their immigration status. are any nurses working in any facilities that are even allowed to ask about immigration status?tell me how your state handles this issue or if they even address it at all. in my state we dont ask..and i pray it stays that way!but i will be "interested" to see "how" other states address this issue ....if they address it at all! my worst fear is that this new found trend of "community policing" immigration status will weave its way into healthcareso...does your state address this issue at all? and also....how taxing is this problem on the border states that see a higher volume of mexican/central american immigrants. . thanks!

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

The only realistic solution is to allow those that are already here to become legal citizens and hand out more visas to those wishing to come in (legally).

Deporting everyone already here and building a great big fence along the borders is unrealistic and we all know ppl will STILL continue to "jump it".

I remember when they build the current fence (what a joke). Wonder how many of our tax dollars it cost?

Bottom line, no one wants to be here illegally. Give them the opportunity to become legal and everyone will be happy. Those who want to come for a few years to make $$ to bring back home can do so (while paying taxes here) and then they could go.

Unless that happens, this dilemma is not going to end anytime soon. EVERYONE (legal and illegal) will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, we cannot change what the presidents in those countrys think or do for their ppl. We can only worry about our ppl and govt.

[Keysnurse2008]

The only realistic solution is to allow those that are already here to become legal citizens and hand out more visas to those wishing to come in (legally).

Deporting everyone already here and building a great big fence along the borders is unrealistic and we all know ppl will STILL continue to "jump it".

I remember when they build the current fence (what a joke). Wonder how many of our tax dollars it cost?

Bottom line, no one wants to be here illegally. Give them the opportunity to become legal and everyone will be happy. Those who want to come for a few years to make $$ to bring back home can do so (while paying taxes here) and then they could go.

Unless that happens, this dilemma is not going to end anytime soon. EVERYONE (legal and illegal) will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, we cannot change what the presidents in those countrys think or do for their ppl. We can only worry about our ppl and govt.

Maybe ...you are correct.I just dont see how this problem got so big to begin with.I was speaking to a friend of mine in mgmt the other day and she said that her hospital lost 8.2 million dollars last year in illegal immigrant healthcare they provided in this rather smallish community hospital.That population didnt have "ACCESS" to medical coverage bc they are here illegally and are undocumented.But the bottom line is....the cost to provide care is staggering. It isnt a "we dont want to take care of you bc you broke the law and entered our country illegally" mentalality...it isnt that at all. It is the fact that it costs these hospitals major dollars to provide this free care and some...cant afford to eat those kind of costs. Those costs have to be covered by someone and it ends up getting covered by taxpayers. I am not sure if amnesty is the answer...I just dont know.BUt I do often wonder ..."WHY" is it that the USA has to be every countries solution to their problems?When will these other countries become self sufficient when the usa continously has to bail them out?How ...how does that help their citizens in the long run?They are still having to choose years later to either leave a beautiful country they love for work?I cant help but feel that enabling or assisting those governments in provising jobs for its own citizens is the answer..

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

maybe ...you are correct.i just dont see how this problem got so big to begin with.i was speaking to a friend of mine in mgmt the other day and she said that her hospital lost 8.2 million dollars last year in illegal immigrant healthcare they provided in this rather smallish community hospital.that population didnt have "access" to medical coverage bc they are here illegally and are undocumented.but the bottom line is....the cost to provide care is staggering. it isnt a "we dont want to take care of you bc you broke the law and entered our country illegally" mentalality...it isnt that at all. it is the fact that it costs these hospitals major dollars to provide this free care and some...cant afford to eat those kind of costs. those costs have to be covered by someone and it ends up getting covered by taxpayers. i am not sure if amnesty is the answer...i just dont know.but i do often wonder ..."why" is it that the usa has to be every countries solution to their problems?when will these other countries become self sufficient when the usa continously has to bail them out?how ...how does that help their citizens in the long run?they are still having to choose years later to either leave a beautiful country they love for work?i cant help but feel that enabling or assisting those governments in provising jobs for its own citizens is the answer..

so, you don't think that by legalizing the one's already here (who meet the requirements, of course) will help this situation? once legal, they will have a ssn, pay taxes etc. (just like the rest of us)

since deporting them is obviously not a realistic option, then why not legalize them and avoid this headache. they will be happy/grateful and so will you and your hospital!!

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

]I was speaking to a friend of mine in mgmt the other day and she said that her hospital lost 8.2 million dollars last year in illegal immigrant healthcare they provided in this rather smallish community hospital.That population didnt have "ACCESS" to medical coverage bc they are here illegally and are undocumented.But the bottom line is....the cost to provide care is staggering. It isnt a "we dont want to take care of you bc you broke the law and entered our country illegally" mentalality...it isnt that at all. It is the fact that it costs these hospitals major dollars to provide this free care and some...cant afford to eat those kind of costs.

I wouldn't pin so much of the blame for that on illegal immigrants. I work in a big (800+ beds) teaching hospital that gave away millions of dollars in charity care in fiscal year 2005-06 and we still had our most profitable year ever. To the tune that everybody got almost 6% of their annualized salary as a December bonus. A big part of financial solvency is good management of resources. I'm not talking about border hospitals; I can see where the problem would be there. But for those of us in the interior, I don't know that it's the illegal immigrants that are causing the problem. At least, they're not causing them where I am. Edited to add that we are a not-for-profit hospital.

[kcochrane]

The only realistic solution is to allow those that are already here to become legal citizens and hand out more visas to those wishing to come in (legally).

Deporting everyone already here and building a great big fence along the borders is unrealistic and we all know ppl will STILL continue to "jump it".

I remember when they build the current fence (what a joke). Wonder how many of our tax dollars it cost?

Bottom line, no one wants to be here illegally. Give them the opportunity to become legal and everyone will be happy. Those who want to come for a few years to make $$ to bring back home can do so (while paying taxes here) and then they could go.

Unless that happens, this dilemma is not going to end anytime soon. EVERYONE (legal and illegal) will continue to suffer. Unfortunately, we cannot change what the presidents in those countrys think or do for their ppl. We can only worry about our ppl and govt.

A fence is only part of the solution. A fence/wall is meant to slow down those coming in illegally. BUT if we don't have enough agents to respond to those coming over the fence, then it IS a waste of money. Bottom line is that we do need to control the border. If that is not done we continue to have a problem with illegal immigration...even if we do issue more work visas and give visas to those already here.

Again take a look at the amnesty problem done back in the 80's. Didn't help because we did not close down and control all our borders. We have an even bigger problem now.

Until you control the borders and issue more work visas, this will continue to be a problem - both to the US and to those entering here illegally.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

What Ronald Reagan once referred to as the "illegal-alien fuss" has fulminated into a frenzy of demonizing where behind every social ill lurks a brown-skinned illegal immigrant.

Reagan famously provided amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants in 1986, appreciating America's historical role as a beacon of hope — a "shining city upon a hill" — to people around the world. Contrast that with the always-simmering anti-illegal immigrant fury among many who call Reagan their godfather.

The best line is this:

There is also an amazingly simple way to deal with the fact that they are illegal: Pass comprehensive immigration reform and provide them a path to citizenship.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070829/opcom29.art.htm

[Keysnurse2008]

so, you don't think that by legalizing the one's already here (who meet the requirements, of course) will help this situation? once legal, they will have a ssn, pay taxes etc. (just like the rest of us)

since deporting them is obviously not a realistic option, then why not legalize them and avoid this headache. they will be happy/grateful and so will you and your hospital!!

hmm..i am still not "sold" on the amnesty aspect. i feel like its rewarding illegal behavoir.also...we need to keep in mind...these guys are not seeking polotical assylum(msp?)...they are not in fear of their lives.they are leaving a beautiful country full of rich heritage and most....most are not here bc they want to be.if they had a choice they'd rather stay in their own beautiful country, where their families have lived for centuries, in a beautiful land full of rich culture.its not like they are living in cambodia and are in fear of their lives.america is not always better......we are not always everyones "#1 choice".we may have the grand canyon , but they have the copper mountains, cancun, tulum, mayan ruins, the mayan riveria, this is a beautiful country with a lousy gvt that needs to be refocused on taking care of meeting its citizens employment needs. this country ( like mexico) has incredibly talented citizens......and yes i am for mexico having as many visas granted as other countries do...but not more...and not less. i think everyone should also look at what they are leaving...and what we are robbing their families of by not helping their gvt refocus on meeting its own citizens employemnt needs.most ( not all but most) would rather stay in their own beautiful countries if their gvt would meet their employment needs....america.....has a long hx of just saying "oh they will be so much better in the long run if they live here...forget where their families have lived for centuries...forget their culture....forget their ancestry....forget the fact that they really would rather live in their own country .but...we cant forget that....the huge number of immigrants from these countries like belize is a cry for the us to step in and help those countries.....not just take...take all their citizens who openly tell you "hey we'd rather be back in belize/honduras/mexico".that is just my opinion....help the countries "refocus" on employment needs of its people.....bc they are not running for their lives and seeking political asylum ...they are looking for wages.america has this long hx of "deeming" that citizens of certain countries would be better off here in the usa even when they say "hey we want to live in our own country where our families have lived for centuries"....instead of helping those countries meet its citizens needs.that is just my opinion....i think the root cause analysis of the problem should be what we try to fix.....bc otherwise we are inflicting an american culture on citizens who really want to be in their own country.just imo

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

I feel like its rewarding illegal behavoir.

That statement implies that they have another realistic choice. The whopping majority don't. The talking heads on TV would have you believe that it's as easy as filling out a couple papers, waiting a couple weeks, paying a couple hundred bucks, and you're in. Not so.

Also...we need to keep in mind...these guys are not seeking polotical assylum(msp?)...they are not in fear of their lives

Perhaps they don't fear for their lives politically (though death squads and gangs are still rampant) but economically yes, most DO fear for their lives. Maybe they aren't seeking political asylum but most could

NOT make it where they are.

Its not like they are living in cambodia and are in fear of their lives.

Hmmm. I could take that and go any number of directions. I'm not trying to diminish what the Cambodians under Pol Pot went through here. I have done a lot of research on that and it is heartbreaking. But lives are still taken in Mexico for people who tell the truth. Try to fight crime and your decapitated body gets left at your family's doorstep. Did you know that in Nicaragua police have to pay a war tax to gangsters to keep the gangsters from harming the officers' families? (These are all taken straight from Spanish-language newspapers.) Your statement assumes a lot. You are assuming that people in Latin America have the right to free speech, freedom of assembly, and a whole host of other rights that we are guaranteed by our constitution. Not all do.

Most (not all but most) would rather stay in their own beautiful countries IF their gvt would meet their employment needs

And their safety needs, and their education needs, and their health needs. I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately. Not when you have to pay for school past the 6th grade in Mexico. Not when if you don't have the money for an emergency appy, you don't get it. And then you die.

I'm not saying that countries shouldn't take responsibility for the care of their citizens. I'm just saying that Mexico & the countries of Central America have only been independent from colonial rule for a hundred years or so. Their governments are still working out the kinks. And there has, in their histories, been a high tolerance for government corruption at the highest levels. Fixed elections. Stuffing ballot boxes to ensure the same party wins time after time. Bribes that can make the police look the other way while the most dastardly of criminals carry on with their drug/human trafficking/other horrible things. This is such a complicated subject. I don't think it's as simple as making governments take responsibility, though I do agree that that's necessary. I just don't see it happening in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong.

In the meantime, what do you suggest we do with all 12-20 million people here already? Leave them as is? That's rewarding them too. Deport them all? Not going to happen, and our own gov't has said so. It sounds real good on paper, but it's not realistic. This may rankle people, but give them their papers and move on. Close the border if you like, but there's got to be an easier way to get here, or a wall all the way to China won't help.

[RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN]

Nothing, abslutely nothing will keep them from coming in. Poverty, hunger, and meeting basic human needs are very powerful motivators. Motivators that fortunately many of us have never experienced.

Like I said before, you can build a wall up to the clouds, and they will still find a way to climb it over.

Legalize those already here, (the one's who meet the requirements) and allow them to work legally and pay their taxes. Many of them will be here temporarily to earn some $$$, build a nice house back home, and buy a little business and will GO BACK to their beautiful country.

Or, just keep them those 12+ million people in the dark. I can't blame them for getting paid under the table. They will continue to work in poor conditions but keep every penny of it. Or get at least the minimun and contribute to taxes. (This is not to say many illegals don't pay taxes, because there are many). But, there are many as well who get paid under the table, absolutely.

I don't care how beautiful my country is, but if I can't eat or live at the minimum to meet basic human needs.........I too would hunt that opportunity wherever it would be.

Solving, or atleast hoping that their governments figure it out is not the solution. What can we do now and today?

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

I don't care how beautiful my country is, but if I can't eat or live at the minimum to meet basic human needs.........I too would hunt that opportunity wherever it would be.

Dead-on, Jess. :yeahthat:

[lorita]

As far as bankrupting hospitals, ALL people without insurance are going to affect the hospital, aren't they? And, in many border towns, many, if not most of the patients will be immigrants, won't they? Without the immigrants there probably wouldn't be a need for the hospital. So, if you kick out the illegals, your census would go down and the hospital would not be needed or would have to downsize.

Maybe the government should subsidise border town hospitals as a humanitarian effort. Afterall we send relief abroad to help people, we send foreign aid to countries 10,000 miles away, why not provide healthcare to illegal immigrants? I think it's good to help people.

I don't agree most are overcrowed and while anyone without health insurance who doesn't pay their bill affects the bottom line their are more consequences for people with social security cards since their credit will be affected. Wouldn't it be nice to walk in to an er with no id and get treated and not even get a bill since no id or soc no consequences. And how about subsidizing a hospital directly accross the boarder where the can be taken when stable enough or sent to for their cold and sorethroats. I'm sorry but when I see my fellow Americans with no medical care and hospitals going bankrupt caring for illegal who in my experience don't wait to get care but use the ER as a primary, while American who generally pay ther bill will wait becuse they can't afford it. Americans who don't pay there bills also don't wait and use ER as a primary but I would still rather my dollars help our own just as I feed my own family before I give to others.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

How many people on this thread actually KNOW any illegal immigrants? How many have friends or family who are illegal immigrants? What if, by knowing illegal immigrants, everything you assumed to be true about them is shot to pieces? Just asking.

To answer my own question, I have friends AND family who are illegal immigrants, and I find some of the assumptions/generalizations made on this thread (and others) to be very very far off the mark.