Am I reading this right? The bill is SB 1159, which looks like it passed to me when I look it up on the California legislature website -- with the following language:
With all due respect, 'illegal' is an adjective, not a noun.
If someone is already here without papers, I'd rather they be able to sit for whatever licensure or certification exam they need in order to do a job. I am, however, highly doubtful that nursing employers are chomping at the bit to hire a nurse without a valid SSN or work visa. In general, though, we're looking at the same principle as drivers licenses. They are already here, they are already driving, let's make sure they can do so safely and with insurance.
If an undocumented student has graduated from an accredited nursing program, there's no real reason why s/he shouldn't sit for NCLEX. This country is not so fragile as to be turned into another Detroit by it. Undocumented students seeking licensure do not represent a large sector of the country's population, but even if they did, is the concept of people seeking to better themselves really the hill anyone wants to die upon?
With all due respect, 'illegal' is an adjective, not a noun.
If someone is already here without papers, I'd rather they be able to sit for whatever licensure or certification exam they need in order to do a job. I am, however, highly doubtful that nursing employers are chomping at the bit to hire a nurse without a valid SSN or work visa. In general, though, we're looking at the same principle as drivers licenses. They are already here, they are already driving, let's make sure they can do so safely and with insurance.
If an undocumented student has graduated from an accredited nursing program, there's no real reason why s/he shouldn't sit for NCLEX. This country is not so fragile as to be turned into another Detroit by it. Undocumented students seeking licensure do not represent a large sector of the country's population, but even if they did, is the concept of people seeking to better themselves really the hill anyone wants to die upon?
How long do you think that will be the case once they find out they can be "rich nurses" without even being legal ?
While I support immigration, i do not support people breaking our laws to be here. I'm sorry but if they can't be trusted to enter via the front door but instead sneak in through the back and demand our resources (sounds like thievery to me) how am i supposed to trust that they are going to follow safe practice laws. They got an education, they passed boards, fantastic, now try working honestly instead of taking jobs from people that did it the legal way. Support our legal American citizens and support legal immigration!
How long do you think that will be the case once they find out they can be "rich nurses" without even being legal ?
1) In order to take the NCLEX, you still have to get through nursing school, and not everyone is going to do that. US citizen or otherwise.
and
2) Considering the fact that even if a person has credentials they aren't likely to get a job in healthcare without a valid SSN or work visa, I'm still going to come down on the side of this not being a large sector of the population and thus not something worth getting worked up about.
While I support immigration, i do not support people breaking our laws to be here. I'm sorry but if they can't be trusted to enter via the front door but instead sneak in through the back and demand our resources (sounds like thievery to me) how am i supposed to trust that they are going to follow safe practice laws. They got an education, they passed boards, fantastic, now try working honestly instead of taking jobs from people that did it the legal way. Support our legal American citizens and support legal immigration!
My guess is that a good number of these people were brought here as young children and raised in the US. While that doesn't change their immigration status on paper, it isn't like they came here of their own free will, nor are they malicious in their intent to take a job away from anyone else. If the thought of someone who speaks English well enough to get through nursing school and may have paid out-of-state tuition to go (depending on the state in which they live) taking and passing the NCLEX is really that bothersome, I don't really know what else to say. Getting worked up about it just doesn't sound like an effective use of time or resources.
Wow. Just wow. I'm appalled at some of these responses and the perception of immigrants. They can't be trusted to enter via the front door? WTH? Do you know how hard it is to enter through that front door, especially after 9/11! Sneak in the back and demand resources? Most of the people who enter illegally are grateful to work any jobs below minimum wage, because it's often a vast improvement from where they came. Those who are fluent and educated enough to get through and graduate nursing school have likely been here since they were children, and like pp said, had no choice in the matter.
I think I'm a little more than appalled, closer to disgusted with some of the obvious generalizations and biases shown.
Wow. Just wow. I'm appalled at some of these responses and the perception of immigrants. They can't be trusted to enter via the front door? WTH? Do you know how hard it is to enter through that front door, especially after 9/11! Sneak in the back and demand resources? Most of the people who enter illegally are grateful to work any jobs below minimum wage, because it's often a vast improvement from where they came. Those who are fluent and educated enough to get through and graduate nursing school have likely been here since they were children, and like pp said, had no choice in the matter.
I think I'm a little more than appalled, closer to disgusted with some of the obvious generalizations and biases shown.
So, you're saying that the fact that it's difficult to immigrate legally is sufficient justification for entering the US and living here illegally? Would you also propose that, because it's hard for lots of people to get jobs to support their families, that is justification for stealing? Should we reward those individuals, as well? What other laws is it okay to break because it's a hardship to follow them? You're offended by the description of "sneaking in the back and demanding resources"? How else would you characterize people coming here illegally and then lobbying/demonstrating for benefits and privileges? And, while I recognize that many illegals came here as children without any say in the matter, if they are adults and competent enough to function in society and attend school, they are mature and competent enough to take responsibility for their immigration status. IMO, it is a true shame that their parents chose to screw them over this way, but that doesn't change the fact that they are here illegally, and flouting our laws every day they are here.
Specializes in Neuro/NSGY, critical care, med/stroke/tele.
I'm here on a student visa. Immigration -- the *right* way -- is nerve-wracking (I was petrified all 3 times I had to go to the consulate at home to do a visa renewal or status change. Regardless of having been here for 7 years legally as an employee, they still make you leave the country every 3 years or when switching your status as if to say "it's really is with the power to say whether or not you're coming back".
It is EXPENSIVE. Employment and student visas have some major associated charges, and permanent residency or anything beyond ramps it up exponentially.
Even right now if I *get* a job after graduation, I don't know how easy or likely it would be for me to get an employee visa as a staff RN (employers have to prove to the DOL that the applicant has skills and experience not found in the pool already here). It gets slightly easier as you move into advanced practice.
As far as this legislation having an impact -- all that I can see it doing it allowing folks to sit for licensure so that they get the professional certification here. I don't know of any employer who would hire without proper proof of residency/work approval, and even if you DO manage to get beyond that, there are payroll/IRS/SS issues that will red flag all over the place. Most HR departments preempt this. So maybe they can get licenses, but I'm not sure how much other effect it would have.
So, you're saying that the fact that it's difficult to immigrate legally is sufficient justification for entering the US and living here illegally? Would you also propose that, because it's hard for lots of people to get jobs to support their families, that is justification for stealing? Should we reward those individuals, as well? What other laws is it okay to break because it's a hardship to follow them? You're offended by the description of "sneaking in the back and demanding resources"? How else would you characterize people coming here illegally and then lobbying/demonstrating for benefits and privileges? And, while I recognize that many illegals came here as children without any say in the matter, if they are adults and competent enough to function in society and attend school, they are mature and competent enough to take responsibility for their immigration status. IMO, it is a true shame that their parents chose to screw them over this way, but that doesn't change the fact that they are here illegally, and flouting our laws every day they are here.
Well, if you want to get technical about it, every time a US citizen drives over the speed limit s/he is flouting the law as well.
My husband is still considered an 'illegal immigrant' (the actual term on all his immigration paperwork is 'entered without inspection' or EWI but people seem to prefer to the former term, wonder why). We have been married for over 13 years and are still going through the immigration process. At some point on an unknown timetable he will be able to return to his home country to pick up his visa and come back legally. Until then, he has no legal status here. We own property here, we have health insurance, we pay our taxes just like everyone else, he speaks English, and he works very hard for himself without 'stealing' any jobs from anyone.
My point is that we have taken responsibility for his immigration status and are working - and paying a pretty penny - to rectify it. However, the bureaucratic wheels grind very slowly and to leave the country is to jeopardize the work we already have done in that direction. We are lucky because we have a path to take, albeit a very expensive and difficult one even with an attorney and a firm grasp of English, my being a native speaker. It's a hurtful mischaracterization for my husband to be called a criminal and a job-stealer, for he is neither.
For millions of other people, there is no path to take to get here and those already here have no path to rectify their status. We can rage about it and do nothing and nothing will change, we can say 'deport 'em all' (with what money and with what door-to-door searches?), or we can figure out which battles are worth fighting and work to find a reasonable path somewhere in the middle. My preference is on the latter. In the meantime, students here illegally taking the NCLEX for which they're eligible? Nowhere on my outrage radar.
Well, if you want to get technical about it, every time a US citizen drives over the speed limit s/he is flouting the law as well.
Yes, and taking the chance that s/he will get caught and suffer the legal consequences, which I fully support. Should we start a movement advocating for eliminating enforcement of traffic laws?
If one enters the country illegally then they broke the law. No matter how hard one tries to "right their wrongs" the fact remains that they broke the law in the first place. There shouldn't be any "rewards" or justifications for that: out of respect for the country you're trying to live in and the ones waiting in line trying to do it the right way, no matter how long or how expensive it can get. Do what you got to do to get what you want, but the right way.
Same thing as trying to move or get citizenship in a country of which you do not speak the language: doesn't make any sense to me. The very least you can do is at least that.
Yes, and taking the chance that s/he will get caught and suffer the legal consequences, which I fully support.
Are you under the impression that people living here illegally do not take a chance that they'll be caught and suffer legal consequences? Millions of deportees and many thousands more detained will tell a different story.
Sure, there are plenty who live here and don't, just as there are plenty who speed and never get a ticket. No one's advocating for doing away with any laws, but plenty of us do advocate for more reasonable ones WRT immigration.
If one enters the country illegally then they broke the law. No matter how hard one tries to "right their wrongs" the fact remains that they broke the law in the first place. There shouldn't be any "rewards" or justifications for that: out of respect for the country you're trying to live in and the ones waiting in line trying to do it the right way, no matter how long or how expensive it can get. Do what you got to do to get what you want, but the right way.
I'm not sure what your point was here, unless to make a point that you have yourself never made one decision which harmed zero people for which you were repeatedly, continually, punished and vilified for well over a decade by people who would not be able to pick you out of a crowd. Quite easy to say 'do it the right way' on the wealthier side of the border when the reality is there is no way at all for a lot of the folks we're talking about.
Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP
4 Articles; 5,259 Posts
With all due respect, 'illegal' is an adjective, not a noun.
If someone is already here without papers, I'd rather they be able to sit for whatever licensure or certification exam they need in order to do a job. I am, however, highly doubtful that nursing employers are chomping at the bit to hire a nurse without a valid SSN or work visa. In general, though, we're looking at the same principle as drivers licenses. They are already here, they are already driving, let's make sure they can do so safely and with insurance.
If an undocumented student has graduated from an accredited nursing program, there's no real reason why s/he shouldn't sit for NCLEX. This country is not so fragile as to be turned into another Detroit by it. Undocumented students seeking licensure do not represent a large sector of the country's population, but even if they did, is the concept of people seeking to better themselves really the hill anyone wants to die upon?