Ill prepared managers...

fluffwad · Aug 31, 2005

I think a lot of this depends on the management. I've been at a couple of places where the nurses promoted into management were the only ones who'd go near a position because they did not know what they were really in for.

I've also seen nurses promoted and then left to fend for themselves, no support, no training......every manager has to have a 'first' job.

And then sometimes, its just a matter of the wrong job for the right person.

jsteine1 · Aug 31, 2005

I am trying to find a way to express this concern without sounding critical. So well, here it goes...
How come it seems as if so many nurse managers are randomly selected as managers with no formal education or experience? I have witnessed this phenomenon in two totally different places... where they just promote well liked RNs who have been at the bedside for a number of years (and been in charge) to management positions. I know that those of you who have the requisite experience are *awesome*... it's just that those who don't are at best a crap shoot and at worst quite incompetent.
Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone it's just that you would think that they would hold management to the same rigor as the other employees. A nurse can't just start on a unit with no training or orientation and be expected to do a good job, can she?

There are many reasons certain people are selected for management positions, but one I can personally vouch for is this: I would rather promote a less experienced individual who I CAN TRUST to act in the best interests of the company, patients and employees equally than a far more experienced individual that may have an agenda or whose ego could cause labor or risk management problems. The difference is though, I will absolutely train my selection to ensure their success and the success of the business unit they manage.

mydesygn · Sep 1, 2005

I am trying to find a way to express this concern without sounding critical. So well, here it goes...
How come it seems as if so many nurse managers are randomly selected as managers with no formal education or experience? I have witnessed this phenomenon in two totally different places... where they just promote well liked RNs who have been at the bedside for a number of years (and been in charge) to management positions. I know that those of you who have the requisite experience are *awesome*... it's just that those who don't are at best a crap shoot and at worst quite incompetent.
Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone it's just that you would think that they would hold management to the same rigor as the other employees. A nurse can't just start on a unit with no training or orientation and be expected to do a good job, can she?

I have mixed feelings about the subject. I have worked in several hospitals where those promoted to management did not necessarily display exceptional communication, organzation or leadership abilities. They were clearly "well liked" which does not always translate to effective management. "well - liked" indiviuals do not always have the ability to make and enforce the hard decisions, they do not like confrontation and open communication and usually enable the same bad qualities in their staff, they are not always equipped to think long term and thoughtfully about an issues instead of merely react. They sometimes lack the ability to plan actions in steps and to set up systems that measure results. The qualities that make a great nurse do not make a great administrator.

I beleive staff expectations feed bad management. One of the units I worked with was having a meeting regarding qualities they expected in a new manager - comments were she should be supportive, kind, nonjudgemental, "there for me" etc... Not one indivual said organized, competent, efficient etc.. I worked with one manager that I literally saw once a year but the unit was always stocked, my evaluations were timely and payroll was correct, the schedule was out on time. I think in the process of finding someone we like, we forget to look for someone we need

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that you can't be liked and respected but personally I will take a manager I respect any day and your best managers understand that and are not afraid to live by that. I beleive the only way to resolve this is to hold managers to measurable criteria: staff turnover, budgetted supplies, patient survey results. Good managers know how to improve those areas and are willing to plan and implement realistic change to improve them.

Bad management can destroy a unit and undermine morale. I hear a lot of complaints regarding "nursing eating their young" and rude or lazy co-workers. Your best employees recognize that no unit will be perfect but if it is clear that management is enabling and supporting those qualities, you will lose good staff and will be left with a unit filled with poor attitudes and low morale because management is knowingly and unknowingly enabling these indivuals. I am a manager and speak with the knowledge of how accountable we are to making a unit effective. I strongly beleive that outside candidates should be given strong consideration for management positions when there are clearly no qualified internal candidates. It helps to have someone with a track record as opposed to just the nurse who happens to have worke there the longest.

Nurse Ratched, RN · Sep 1, 2005

I think in the process of finding someone we like, we forget to look for someone we need

It helps to have someone with a track record as opposed to just the nurse who happens to have worke there the longest.

These two things bear repeating.

As regards the rest of your post, I wanna work for you. I have two bosses at two facilities. One is great, runs a tight ship, but everyone gets along and the work is done well with the patient foremost in mind.

The other is a victim of "no one else wanted the job." Promoted well past the point of own incompetence. Fosters suspicion and backbiting to divert attention away from own poor managerial style. Prime concern at all times is covering own buttocks. Glad that's the one at the part-time job .

llg, PhD, RN · Sep 1, 2005

I beleive staff expectations feed bad management. One of the units I worked with was having a meeting regarding qualities they expected in a new manager - comments were she should be supportive, kind, nonjudgemental, "there for me" etc... Not one indivual said organized, competent, efficient etc.. I worked with one manager that I literally saw once a year but the unit was always stocked, my evaluations were timely and payroll was correct, the schedule was out on time. I think in the process of finding someone we like, we forget to look for someone we need
.

I loved your post and agree with the points you made. The most popular staff nurse does not always make the best manager.

llg

mydesygn · Sep 1, 2005

I loved your post and agree with the points you made. The most popular staff nurse does not always make the best manager.
llg

Thanks. I think if you are in nursing long enough you will unfortunately end up on a truly dysfuntional unit. I had been fortunate to work with many good nurses on good units. Funny thing is I never truly realized this until I spent 6 months on the most dysfuntional enviroment. A group of 5 - 6 nurses were constantly critcizing and insulting one another (always behind their backs) and they would report every minor issue or error (merited or not) to the manager. Literally in the 6 mos that I was there 5 out of 7 nursing assistants quit or transferred, not one of the three new grads choose to remin on the unit, both of the travelers took new assignments once there contracts were complete and I wasn't there long enough to determine how many nurses left - seemed like new faces every day. As bad as the nurses treated one another, I place heavy blame on the management because they should be above the pettines. Unfortunately, this manager would write you up at the drop of a hat, errors were treated in an excessively punitive manner, any comment brought into the management office was addressed with the accused employee - merited or not. As much as I can blame indiviual nurses, I blame the manager more -- mess should never leave the office. The constant criticism and blame were deflating and demoralizing.

jsteine1 · Sep 1, 2005

Thanks. I think if you are in nursing long enough you will unfortunately end up on a truly dysfuntional unit. I had been fortunate to work with many good nurses on good units. Funny thing is I never truly realized this until I spent 6 months on the most dysfuntional enviroment. A group of 5 - 6 nurses were constantly critcizing and insulting one another (always behind their backs) and they would report every minor issue or error (merited or not) to the manager. Literally in the 6 mos that I was there 5 out of 7 nursing assistants quit or transferred, not one of the three new grads choose to remin on the unit

This scenario sounds like a case study in immaturity and insecurity. management establishes the culture and sets the tone. Turnover stats are measured carefully in most settings whether they are published to all or not. I'm amazed that manager was left in place for even six months.

mydesygn · Sep 2, 2005

This scenario sounds like a case study in immaturity and insecurity. management establishes the culture and sets the tone. Turnover stats are measured carefully in most settings whether they are published to all or not. I'm amazed that manager was left in place for even six months.

The previous manager was fired and this lady was interim. She remained in place for over a year-no internal applicants wanted the job. The facility finally simply put someone else in, by then the damage was done. The only reason she was placed in interim was because she had been there the longest. They should have replaced her as soon as the problems were evident

JMP · Sep 5, 2005

I believe what nursing needs is more LEADERS and less MANAGERS.

Nurses have been managed to death.

Nurses are professionals, who need support and understanding and above all, quality workkplaces to practice in.

Having supplies in place is vital to patient care, having a schedule out on time is great, knowing someone is leading you that you can count on to be on your side (nursing), who will stand up when nursing needs someone is LEADERSHIP.

I would much rather be called a nurse leader than a nurse manager.

QUOTE=mydesygn]I have mixed feelings about the subject. I have worked in several hospitals where those promoted to management did not necessarily display exceptional communication, organzation or leadership abilities. They were clearly "well liked" which does not always translate to effective management. "well - liked" indiviuals do not always have the ability to make and enforce the hard decisions, they do not like confrontation and open communication and usually enable the same bad qualities in their staff, they are not always equipped to think long term and thoughtfully about an issues instead of merely react. They sometimes lack the ability to plan actions in steps and to set up systems that measure results. The qualities that make a great nurse do not make a great administrator.

I beleive staff expectations feed bad management. One of the units I worked with was having a meeting regarding qualities they expected in a new manager - comments were she should be supportive, kind, nonjudgemental, "there for me" etc... Not one indivual said organized, competent, efficient etc.. I worked with one manager that I literally saw once a year but the unit was always stocked, my evaluations were timely and payroll was correct, the schedule was out on time. I think in the process of finding someone we like, we forget to look for someone we need

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that you can't be liked and respected but personally I will take a manager I respect any day and your best managers understand that and are not afraid to live by that. I beleive the only way to resolve this is to hold managers to measurable criteria: staff turnover, budgetted supplies, patient survey results. Good managers know how to improve those areas and are willing to plan and implement realistic change to improve them.

Bad management can destroy a unit and undermine morale. I hear a lot of complaints regarding "nursing eating their young" and rude or lazy co-workers. Your best employees recognize that no unit will be perfect but if it is clear that management is enabling and supporting those qualities, you will lose good staff and will be left with a unit filled with poor attitudes and low morale because management is knowingly and unknowingly enabling these indivuals. I am a manager and speak with the knowledge of how accountable we are to making a unit effective. I strongly beleive that outside candidates should be given strong consideration for management positions when there are clearly no qualified internal candidates. It helps to have someone with a track record as opposed to just the nurse who happens to have worke there the longest.

jsteine1 · Sep 5, 2005

The ideal scenario is the combination of leadership and management. Being a leader implies positive influence, a calming presence and excellent comunication during times of change and duress;an individual of impeccable integrity and the ability to engender universal respect. Simultaneously,the show must go on and the nitty-gritty has to be expedited consistently. Schedules, supplies. problem solving. I agree that a majority of competent managers may not be leaders and the reverse can also be true. Many with extraordinary leadership qualities may not excel at a high detail level but are smart enough to know what they dont know and seek out the talents needed through their workforce and provide effective delegation and followup.

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · Sep 5, 2005

The previous manager was fired and this lady was interim. She remained in place for over a year-no internal applicants wanted the job. The facility finally simply put someone else in, by then the damage was done. The only reason she was placed in interim was because she had been there the longest. They should have replaced her as soon as the problems were evident

Tenured incompetence, eh?