I do recognize the need for nursing theory

Kelly_the_Great · Jan 3, 2006

But the difficulty with reading anything they write is that language for them is very fluid. You'll never catch them in an inconsistancy, because their use of a word can change. Failing that, when you think you have what their saying... they'll claim there's some nuance to the words that you (an unenlightened one) cannot apprehend.

You know what song popped in my head as I'm reading this..."Sidestep"! You know, th' song the govenor sings in Best Little Whorehouse in Texas??? :rotfl:

Has anyone tried to channel Martha Rogers yet????

I don't know if anyone has tried or not, but I just googled "channel martha rogers" and it came up with a link called Customer Intimacy in Financial Services. :clown:

Okay, onto another question, that I think kind of relates to the original question of the thread. Tulip, you work in nursing education, right? Why is it (and maybe this is just the grading criteria @ my school - I don't know), why is it that you'll take a 6 hr. class (3:3 didactic/clinical) and they only grade you based off tests given from lecture material and maybe occasionally they'll throw in a project of some sort as well but they don't give you any academic grading credit for clinical performance - only pass/fail?

I understand the goal is to produce students who'll pass the NCLEX but shouldn't the goal also be to produce high-performance nurses as well? Thing is, th' stuff in the books is @ least 2 y/o by the time it gets published and to the classroom. I mean, I understand that they have to use some kind of tool to measure the students just like the state must use a tool as well and tests are maybe the best way to accomplish this. But with the care plan (clinical work), you're having to seek out EBP compared w/ what's actually being performed and I feel like I really learn a lot more. Further, this "learning" is cemented through actual practice.

In all my other sciences: chemistry, micro, A&P, that required labs, they would give credit (usually 25%) for the work done. I think by only giving pass/fail credit for our clinical performance it sends a message that doing the bare minimum is acceptable. Also, like the last class I took, I had a 40 point differnce I could score on my final between an A & B for th' class. Hell, I'm pretty sure I could've scored th' 40 lower w/o ever having taken the course at all, you know?

Maybe I feel this way b/c of my past hx. of nursing in a "technical" manner. I think more likely though, it's probably b/c I don't have sense enough to know the difference between producing an A quality paper (care plan) and an F quality one. I would actually benefit from a tutor to teach me techniques on half-@sseness. I sure would love to devote the energies elsewhere when it's really not viewed as important. :stone

Kelly_the_Great · Jan 4, 2006

Was I totally off-base w/ the above? I thought it "kind of" related in so far as theory seems to be advanced over the actual practice of our knowledge.

Even though I addressed it to Tulip I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts that might like to contribute. :)

1Tulip · Jan 4, 2006

Was I totally off-base w/ the above? I thought it "kind of" related in so far as theory seems to be advanced over the actual practice of our knowledge.
Even though I addressed it to Tulip I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts that might like to contribute. :)

Kelly: I'll pm you.

krisssy · Jan 26, 2006

If you are one of the posters who believe that nursing theory is important for nursing practice, can you tell me why? How do you use nursing theory in your practice as a nurse? Thanks Krisssy

krisssy · Jan 30, 2006

I have been in my theory class for a few weeks now, and I must say that I really enjoy the works of some of the theorist's I am reading about. They are not all into mystics and energy waves. What did you think of Myra E. Levine and Lydia E. Hall? I think I can certainly use their theories in my practice as a psychiatric nurse. What did you think re. them? Krisssy

krisssy · Mar 31, 2006

I would like to bring this thread up again. I was reading it before I started my graduate theory course. I have, somewhat, of a different perspective now. I have been taking this course since Jan., and there has been no mention of Watson and/or Rodgers.

We are now studying and learning about Health Promotion Models. Any opinions either way about Nola Pender, Prochaska & Velicer, Healthy People 2010 and their Health Promotion Models?

By the way, I love the course. A:idea: m I nuts?

Krisssy

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 31, 2006

I would like to bring this thread up again. I was reading it before I started my graduate theory course. I have, somewhat, of a different perspective now. I have been taking this course since Jan., and there has been no mention of Watson and/or Rodgers.
We are now studying and learning about Health Promotion Models. Any opinions either way about Nola Pender, Prochaska & Velicer, Healthy People 2010 and their Health Promotion Models?
By the way, I love the course. A:idea: m I nuts?
Krisssy

No, you're just learning new things and maturing as a nurse scholar. It's another form of "growing up" and it's nothing to be worried about.

Some people get exposed to a theory that they don't fully appreciate and/or doesn't suit them personally and conclude that all theory is ridiculous. You kept an open mind and have found some theories to your liking. If you continue to explore with an open mind, you will find others -- but that doesn't mean you will like all of them. The conversation among theorists, philosophers, scientists, practitioners, etc. is what true scholarship is all about.

Welcome to a new level of understanding!

llg

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Mar 31, 2006

No, you're just learning new things and maturing as a nurse scholar. It's another form of "growing up" and it's nothing to be worried about.
Some people get exposed to a theory that they don't fully appreciate and/or doesn't suit them personally and conclude that all theory is ridiculous. You kept an open mind and have found some theories to your liking. If you continue to explore with an open mind, you will find others -- but that doesn't mean you will like all of them. The conversation among theorists, philosophers, scientists, practitioners, etc. is what true scholarship is all about.
Welcome to a new level of understanding!
llg

LOL, I think you had me in mind.

I am not outright anti-theory IF the theory has any reasonable relationship to nursing instead of the eastern religion, aura, energy field, hoaky 60's drug-culture tripe so often passed off as theory by the ivory-towered elitists and protected by a catch-22 that states that anybody that doesn't "buy-in" is too unsophisticated to see the art in the paint splashed on canvass.

The problem with that kind of theory is that it is sufficiently intellectually shallow as to allow it's fundamental terminology to hold mystical qualities with floating definitions to wow the believers and admonish the skeptics.

That's a religion, not a science. I have my own religion, thank you very much.

But my problem with such theory ISN'T that I don't buy it, personally. My problem is that by defining the core theories of nursing in religious (or mystical, if you prefer) terms, we have ignored the real, evidence based science that actually makes nursing a profession.

We have isolated ourselves from our peers by focusing on spiritual paradigms that not only don't fit most nurses, but aren't required by those nurses. Those nurses bring their own spirituality to their work, and certainly don't need out-of-touch elitists to define it for them.

Theory has it's place, but that place is neither above, nor on equal footing with the science that should be grounding our profession. Theory should be defining nursing in ways with common interfaces, that, as you've said before, in other threads, bring various backgrounds together w/ the same guiding principles. Creating biased philosophies and enforcing them with a 'science can't adequately describe my brillance' coercion just doesn't meet that lofty goal for nursing.

Until theory actually embraces nursing, nursing enmass will never embrace theory. So, I don't need theory to be a good nurse. Indeed, I'm a good nurse IN SPITE of these theoretical limitations that try to pigeon hole me.

~faith,

Timothy.

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 1, 2006

LOL, I think you had me in mind.
~faith,
Timothy.

I'm glad to see the humor in my post. I wasn't thinking of ONLY you, but yes, you were one of the people on my mind. Perhaps you should develop your own theory, one that helps you to organize your thoughts on nursing. I'm sure it would make interesting reading.

Coincidentally, a grad student I am currently precepting told me today that she was really struggling with her project until she found a good framework upon which she could base her work. Once she started using a framework to organize the material, it all fell together for her. I said something like, "Good for you! Now you see the purpose of theory. Now you can really feel its purpose deep down inside. That's an important step in your development." It wasn't a nursing theory she found so helpful ... but it was a useful lesson just the same.

llg

krisssy · Apr 1, 2006

First of all, I have not come across a nursing theorist who promotes gnosticism, mysticism, religion, the 60's drug culture or anything like that since beginning my graduate nursing theories course in Jan. In fact, I have been reading research based theory instead. Now I believe you Timothy that there are some theorists who promote such things, but I have not been assigned to learn from them.

I would like to know if anyone bases their nursing practice on a particular theory and if so what theory and why? It's not for an assignment or anything. I am just curious. I have come across quite a few theorists that I really like, and I was wondering if anyone uses them in their practice and how it is going.

Thanks Krisssy

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Apr 1, 2006

I'm glad to see the humor in my post. I wasn't thinking of ONLY you, but yes, you were one of the people on my mind. Perhaps you should develop your own theory, one that helps you to organize your thoughts on nursing. I'm sure it would make interesting reading.
Coincidentally, a grad student I am currently precepting told me today that she was really struggling with her project until she found a good framework upon which she could base her work. Once she started using a framework to organize the material, it all fell together for her. I said something like, "Good for you! Now you see the purpose of theory. Now you can really feel its purpose deep down inside. That's an important step in your development." It wasn't a nursing theory she found so helpful ... but it was a useful lesson just the same.
llg

I could buy a nursing theory that focused on 'critical' thinking. This is so important for all types of nursing and would be a common interface for all nurses.

I could see a theory that focuses on evidence based practices as a core concept for nursing practice. A core foundation for nursing should be to embrace practices proven to work.

I could see a theory that advocates for interlaced autonomy: we pursue autonomy where it is practical and reasonable but not so blindly that we severe the links with our allied health peers - something we DID with nursing diagnosis and care plans that have no relationship to the real world.

I KNOW I KNOW - those things are good for teaching students HOW to be a nurse, but why pretend that they are relevant for any other reason. Why can't teaching be enough, in its own right? The result of pretending that this is our 'language' is that our allied health professionals don't bother to listen to us because we aren't speaking the native language of health care. It's like demanding that nursing be Spanish speaking only in an English speaking society.

How about a theory that attacks the concept that I can't recognize CHF when I see it and MUST, MUST hide my communication in hints until the doctor catches on and addresses my concerns. I can buy a theory that nurses are indeed smart enough not to just point out problems, but advocate for specific solutions.

How about a theory that sets up a framework for spirituality and caring without trying to be a feel good religion. We can do this. We already do, in things like cultural diversity and respect for all beliefs. Why can't THAT be the focus, instead of 'altered energy field disturbance'?

How about a framework for BSN standards without being derogatory to ADNs, as is currently the case? You cannot do away with ADNs (like myself) because of the shortage. But there are other ways to approach that goal. We can develop a whole hosts of satellite Accelerated Programs but we can't link ADN programs to BSN programs? Why can't we advocate that ADN be on a direct pathway to BSN - make all ADN programs DIRECTLY linked by bridges to BSN. And make the gap between the two accomplishable by all these non-traditional students that need to work full time in the meantime, or for awhile in between. (I don't have to find a new program to bridge; it's already there. I have the option of attacking a class at a time, as I'm able.) And then, advocate for the pay difference to promote that advance, instead of demand it in an environment that is supply/demand impossible.

I'll think of more later, but I have to feed kids now. The POINT is, that we can have a framework that describes who we are and where we want to go WITHOUT delving so far spiritual that the very framework not only alienates our Allied Health peers, which is bad enough, but alienates NURSES from their own so-called 'base of knowledge'.

~faith,

Timothy.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Apr 1, 2006

First of all, I have not come across a nursing theorist who promotes gnosticism, mysticism, religion, the 60's drug culture or anything like that since beginning my graduate nursing theories course in Jan. In fact, I have been reading research based theory instead. Now I believe you Timothy that there are some theorists who promote such things, but I have not been assigned to learn from them.
I would like to know if anyone bases their nursing practice on a particular theory and if so what theory and why? It's not for an assignment or anything. I am just curious. I have come across quite a few theorists that I really like, and I was wondering if anyone uses them in their practice and how it is going.
Thanks Krisssy

Try Rogers and her energy fields. And try explaining that theory intelligently to a group of nurses in the trenches.

Or try Watson, who believes that nursing isn't much more than a hyper drive mothering instinct.

~faith,

Timothy.

I *do* recognize the need for nursing theory

I do recognize the need for nursing theory