I love nursing but hate NP school

freedom22 · Jan 30, 2009

actually I dont mind nursing research- its really important. One theory class is also improtant so you have a solid foundation.

But Im talking about my other 3 classes, decision making, nursing trends, and social policy. Each class has like 5-10 major papers and so much work, which I would welcome if it helped with practicing as a NP and caring for patients or understanding social issues. I can replace each with an advanced clinical class and be a much better practitioner. Atleast replace it with something like advanced therapeutic communication... These 3 classes should to be electives!

freedom22 · Jan 30, 2009

Why not PA school? You have to look at the foundations of these professions. Nursing is a holistic, inclusive profession of total care, which happens to include the body.
While there is a science in nursing, nursing is not all science.
On the other hand, the medical (and of course PA) field is a biological science by definition.
If you want the science, then study the field relating purely to the science.

Yes, nursing is more holistic based, but "Happens to include the body"??? Maybe that can be said for bedside nursing, but for a NP who has to dx and prescribe as well, thats so sad to hear you say this.

LisaDNP · Jan 30, 2009

Lisa,
Thanks for your response. All in all, do you feel NP school covered enough in depth clinical knowledge needed to diagnose, treat and prescribe? What kind of NP did you get?

I do think we had good classes and great clinical sites. Personally, I learn by doing and my years of experience as a RN were invaluable. I have a really hard time with those programs that say that a new RN can go directly into a NP program. No one can convince me that this is a good thing to do......

I'm a family NP and my first NP job was in cardiology. I did everything and I loved it. Then I went to work for a group of electrophysiologists. That was fun too.

My only complaint about my NP program is there was definite lack of psych experience. I didn't know I need this until I got out and was practicing for awhile. Almost all patients have some type of issues even if it's anxiety regarding an illness. More time on psych, much less time on theories!! :yeah:

jjjoy, LPN · Jan 30, 2009

I don't have your experience, Freedom22, but I feel where you are coming from and want to support you in your questioning of nursing education. While some programs ARE more clinically-based, it seems to me that ALL programs should be more clinically-based... at least for nurses who will be assessing physiological status and directly impacting physiological processes (prescribing/administering meds, etc). MANY nurses' primary responsibility is to ensure the physiologic safety of patients while administering potent medications, with psychologic and social issues a distant second they may not have time to get to.

The percentage of nursing education dedicated to physiology, pharmacology, psychology, nursing theory, etc could better reflect the average nurse's real-world responsibilities AS practicing nurses. Thus, one or two classes on nursing theory, psych-soc issues for the average nurse. Those who want to specialize, such as working in psych or public health, can take electives to flesh out their understanding of these all- important areas.

If nursing wants to be BOTH clinically skilled AND masters of holistic care, then nursing education will have to be extended. I just don't think you can fit it all into a few short years. Something has to give and in many places, it's the clinical training that gets short shrift... with the assurance that you'll learn what you need to know on the job. Meanwhile, you won't hear another word about nursing theory out of school, so they'll make sure to spend plenty of time on that. Kinda backwards, it seems.

(Note: by "clinical" I mean learning about clinical issues in general. I'm not referring to the clinical rotations, as the number of clinical hours is usually standard across schools).

Quark09 · Jan 30, 2009

I absolutely admire you for continuing your education. I plan to begin NP school (part-time as well) after a few years with clinical RN experience (still finishing my ADN program right now; I have a Bachelor's in Fine Arts already, and so will be looking for a "bridge" RN to MSN program) and have reviewed the curriculum for several different schools. I remember when I was still doing my supports before starting nursing school, and thinking "I just want to get to the good stuff!" My school required an additional speech class, an additional Comp & Analysis (I'd had several C&A classes for my BFA but not the "right" ones), General Psychology (which was basically repeated within the program), a Sociology (again, repeated!), and Human Growth & Development (which, again, was pretty much covered again in the HG&D section of first semester Theory). The only prereq's that I really used when I began nursing were the A&P classes and Microbiology. Even though I wished I could've been doing classes that were a bit more "nursing-like" for lack of a better term, I just told myself that I'd gain from the classes, and they were a means to an end. I wish you absolutely the best in whatever area you might specialize in, and hope you'll contiue to post of your progress!

TheOldGuy · Jan 31, 2009

Isn't it amazing that nursing education hasn't changed in 40 years despite the universal recognition that nursing theory is pretty much a useless waste of time? Why do we continue to accept that worn out excuse that "you'll learn it on the job"? Why is it that nursing educators haven't worked to toughen up the curriculum to meet the increased sophistication of nursing practice? Why is it that NP programs are heavy on the same tired fluff and light on advanced pathophys? Remember the old saying BS = BullS..., MS = More S..., PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper?

Is it any wonder that docs don't take many nurses and NP's seriously.....?

Sorry...had to vent......

blondy2061h, MSN, RN · Jan 31, 2009

What school are you at and what NP program is it? If you dont mind me asking.

Sorry, I try to avoid posting things that may reveal my real identity online if I can avoid it. You may PM me if you'd like.

HotDrew · Jan 31, 2009

I think if you like science you should definitely go to med school. I got so tired of the nonsense nursing theory that was always pushed down our throats. I want to treat the disease, not the response to disease!

allnurses Guide · Jan 31, 2009

Maybe it is your program. I started last year with patho, research and role prac (all useful). This semester it's ethics and pharm. We really don't have a lot of theory. We do have some leadership/healthcare policy class but that's more professional issues.

Try another school. I'm similar to you - I want to know the science, not the fluff - and I like my program.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jan 31, 2009

First, let me tell you about myself. I love nursing, the interactions with patients and even sometimes dealing and solving difficult family situations. But, more than anything, I love and am passionate about the study of human physiology, diseases..... I love to understand a disease, why it is treated a certain way, how meds work... So I was sooo looking forward to starting NP school. Now, once in the program as a Part time student, I realize that I will be spending the next entire year learning about nursing theory, statistics... and nothing related to clinical medicine. I am a clinical person and am dreading this year. I looked at many other schools and thier curriculums all include these annoying classess (annoying for me). Then I looked at medschool curriculum and it starts immediately with really interesting clinical classes such as advanced A&P, patho.... All my coworkers are pushing me to go to medschool since they say Im very passionate about the clinical aspect of medicine.
Now Im sooo lost. Anyone else felt that NP school included to little clinical classes? Any advice?

Although NP school programs have a certain degree of variation as far as curricula, certification boards require that specific content be included in all NP programs so that graduates can sit for the certification exam. These courses include advanced pathophysicology, advanced pharmacotherapeutics, and advanced physical assessment. The successive clinical courses that follow these three foundational courses are directed towards your particular NP track. For instance, as a former student in an Acute Care NP program, I had three semesters of clinicals and didactic sessions focused on the care of acute and critically-ill adults covering all the organ systems of the body.

When one starts graduate school full-time or part-time, it is preferred that one meets with a faculty adviser who will be the guide in mapping out a Graduate School Plan of Work. This basically outlines the timeline of courses one takes during each semester in the program from start to the time of completion or graduation. I am wondering if you've done this and whether you just picked out the courses and registered for them on your own. My faculty adviser had me sign up for the foundational courses right away when I started my program. I had Patho, Pharm, and Physical Exam in succession. The theory courses were just additional courses I took with the science-based courses.

Also remember that since you are training to be an advanced practice nurse, many programs especially the ones that train NP's include a course in nursing theory. Does your program have more than one nursing theory class? Typically there's only one class on nursing theory in most NP programs. The other courses are in research and statistics both of which are important because NP's should be able to critique clinical research findings. There is also usually a course on advanced practice nursing issues, NP reimbursement, and health policy. I found the latter course extremely beneficial. You have to be aware of what issues you'll face in the real world as a nurse practitioner. This can range from getting ideas on how to market yourself during your job search, dealing with practice barriers, getting reimbursed, signing contracts, the list goes on.

I say give your program a second look and see if it does have the essential courses before you veer off this track.