How should We the People hold accountable those responsible for the failed and corrupt federal pandemic response?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 25, 2020

6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The Chief Executive (Trump) pursued corrupt and incompetent policy and planning during a national health crisis. The man himself, undermined public health recommendations at every turn. Trump spread dangerous misinformation that is still causing spread of the disease. Trump put the politician with a known history of public health failure (Pence) in charge of the pandemic response.

How the idiocy of Trump and Jared Kushner let the pandemic loose (opinion)

Understanding the US failure on coronavirus—an essay by Drew Altman

At the same time, it is indeed widely known that we should mask, social distance and avoid crowds, not travel, stay home etc. But yet Americans aren't complying.

We can lay the initial blame at Trumps feet but 8 months in it's our own behavior and our own fault. Governors, Republicans and Democrats alike, in multiple states are all but getting on their hands and knees begging people to behave themselves and do what's right.

At this point it's hard to blame the surge on Trump even though. perhaps his policies unleashed it. But there was a lull in the fall and people put out the warnings that we're in for a dire Winter if we don't change.

We didn't and the dire Winter is here.

I'm so sad reading articles written by stressed out nurses and doctors in South Dakota that are crying over the death and destruction pleading with people to act right, when I read the same thing this Summer out of Arizona, and read the same thing out of New York in the Spring.

“We can’t sound the alarm bell loud enough for people in Ohio to change their behavior,” one doctor said. Really, in November we still have to shout it from the roof tops?

toomuchbaloney · Nov 25, 2020

1 hour ago, Tweety said:

At the same time, it is indeed widely known that we should mask, social distance and avoid crowds, not travel, stay home etc. But yet Americans aren't complying.

We can lay the initial blame at Trumps feet but 8 months in it's our own behavior and our own fault. Governors, Republicans and Democrats alike, in multiple states are all but getting on their hands and knees begging people to behave themselves and do what's right.

At this point it's hard to blame the surge on Trump even though. perhaps his policies unleashed it. But there was a lull in the fall and people put out the warnings that we're in for a dire Winter if we don't change.

We didn't and the dire Winter is here.

I'm so sad reading articles written by stressed out nurses and doctors in South Dakota that are crying over the death and destruction pleading with people to act right, when I read the same thing this Summer out of Arizona, and read the same thing out of New York in the Spring.

“We can’t sound the alarm bell loud enough for people in Ohio to change their behavior,” one doctor said. Really, in November we still have to shout it from the roof tops?

Yeah, we do have to shout it because the largest megaphone has been used by the largest source lies and misinformation about and defiance of covid and the mitigation strategies. The people continue to behave as if the pandemic is nothing to worry about because that is still the message of Trump and his political party.

Our tendency is to allow people like him to just skate on their responsibility, even in the face of complete failure. You just outlined a good excuse to let Trump get away with his dishonest malfeasance...well we all should know better. He should know better too. We cannot continue allowing bad actors to exercise immunity from prosecution and accountability. Our politics will simply continue to become more and more corrupt if nothing is ever punished.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 25, 2020

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Yeah, we do have to shout it because the largest megaphone has been used by the largest source lies and misinformation about and defiance of covid and the mitigation strategies. The people continue to behave as if the pandemic is nothing to worry about because that is still the message of Trump and his political party.

Our tendency is to allow people like him to just skate on their responsibility, even in the face of complete failure. You just outlined a good excuse to let Trump get away with his dishonest malfeasance...well we all should know better. He should know better too. We cannot continue allowing bad actors to exercise immunity from prosecution and accountability. Our politics will simply continue to become more and more corrupt if nothing is ever punished.

I'm saying that people have heard that megaphone over and over and certainly 8 months into shouldn't have to be begged to do what they know is right. I also venture people are making their own decisions not because "well Trump says so".

An example would be this bar here in Florida where we have no restrictions because of our governor, who granted is a big fan of Trump's policies.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-bar-the-wharf-fort-lauderdale-closes-no-masks-social-distancing/

People are making their own free-willed decisions because they know without a shadow of a doubt that gathering in large crowded spaces without masks or social distancing is wrong. They've heard Fauci and everyone else. They choose not to listen and throw caution to the wind, and not just because Trump told them to, it's because it's what they want to do, consequences be damned.

There is widespread support for freedom and rebellion against any mitigation policies. While they may have a voice in Trump, and governors and leaders, there is widespread support amongst lay people, particularly the 70 million that voted for him.

As far as not letting him get away with it vs. prosecuting him for his lies. Good luck with that.

Trump may have been the leader, but he has followers. The state of Texas sued El Paso because they independently wanted to have tighter restrictions because of being an epicenter and the death and destruction there is devastating. The governor of South Dakota is using covid cash to promote her state as a tourist destination. They have more covid per capita than just about anywhere in the world in S.D. The state of Florida passed legislation that no towns or counties can enforce a mask mandate or institute any lockdowns. Florida had over 8,000 covid cases yesterday.

Trump started something, but we as individuals need to hold each other accountable and own our stupidity as a society for allowing it and running with it all these months later.

elkpark · Dec 29, 2020

Food for thought:

The People vs. Donald Trump – Verdict: Guilty of Negligent Homicide – Trusted Legal Advice for Technology Companies (kelmanlaw.com) (Fiction, obviously, but an interesting read).

Nonfiction: Glenn Kirschner, a retired Federal prosecutor, has been saying since early in the pandemic that Trump's behavior and decisions regarding the coronavirus pandemic more than meet the necessary standards to charge, try, and convict him for negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter (different states use different terms). Also an interesting read (or listen): Deconstructed Podcast: Is Trump Criminally Responsible for Coronavirus Deaths? (theintercept.com)

toomuchbaloney · Dec 29, 2020

It might be evident that I follow Mr Kirschner and his POV.

chare · Dec 29, 2020

Then, for the benefit of those that don't, Perhaps one of you would post links to these sources.

toomuchbaloney · Dec 30, 2020

18 hours ago, chare said:

Then, for the benefit of those that don't, Perhaps one of you would post links to these sources.

Kirschn

There you go...