How would a nurse mgr view this situation in interview?

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 29, 2009

I've always come from an honest viewpoint as I don't like to screw with my employers, that said many employers will screw those that serve them w/o a backward glance. I watched it in my previous profession. I thought an employer might appreciate total honesty and disclosure up front. I see a hospital is still a corporation which is why I don't see myself in one longer than necessary to acquire certain skills and knew that from observation. I am going into this b/c I have genuine compassion to help it's not about a paycheck. It's a shame hospitals are more profit and paperwork than caring.
I see I basically need to keep my cards close to my chest and and divulge later, being prepared to walk.

The hospital WILL appreciate any disclosure up front ... but that doesn't mean you will be able to get everything you want. And that's NOT because hospitals are horrible employers. The very nature of hospital work demands that most of the nurses be available at all times. While lots of staff members would like to take vacations in July (and have holidays off, weekends, off, night shifts off, etc.) the patients do not all get out of bed and go home during those times. Therefore, the hospital MUST place some limits on how many staff members can be scheduled to be off on any given day. All you can expect is that they have a fair system for deciding whose turn it is to get scheduled off on those days when lots of people don't want to work.

By guaranteeing to a new employee that she can have the most popular vacation time off, the hospital will have to tell experienced nurses that they can NOT have those days off. How do you think those nurses are going to feel when they see that a new grad gets to go on vacation in July when they, the experienced staff, had to miss their family reunions, weddngs, vacations, or whatever to provide coverage so that the new grad could go? The hospital isn't being mean by considering the needs of ALL the staff and the patients when considering vacation requests, they are watching out for the safety of the patients and being fair to ALL employees. That's the sign of a good employer, not a bad one.

A good employer will work with you to try to give you at least some of the time off to be with your family ... but they won't scr** their existing staff to guarantee that you get everything. As for the attitude that you'll "walk" if they don't give you exactly what you want ... well ... that won't take you very far. I hope I am mis-interpreting your comments. I hope for your sake that you are willing to work WITH your collegues and be prepared to make a few compromises with your schedule so that everyone gets at least a little bit of what they want (even if no one gets everything they want).

Kitty Hawk, ADN, RN · Jul 29, 2009

I'm well aware nuances can be lost in written word I suppose.

I said my "walk" comment b/c someone suggested if they can't give me that week, then I need to consider resignation and frankly, yes I agree with that. I suppose that may shock some, but I didn't ask whether it was/wasn't appropriate to have that vacation, just when it should be brought up.

LLG I could see your point if I was asking for "everything". I'm not, I'm asking for one week, granted at high season but as mentioned in my first post I am willing to give up holidays, outsourcing someone else if an emergency arises etc... Working my tail off, doing above and beyond my job title b/c that's who I am and nothing is beneath me.

You said over and over again how I can't get "everything" and need to make concessions. I really fail to understand how one request = acting like a spoiled brat and demanding my way or the high way.

I am also well aware of what other employees may feel. I do care about others, usually in the past to the point of hurting myself. I used to be a travel manager so I know considerations for all and hurt/feeling things are unfair.

That said, I've worked twenty plus years in a previous position. I'm not some young kid that's never had to put in dues. I never said I didn't wish to put in dues at the hospital, but yes this one concession I refuse to make b/c life is too short. If I lose a job over it, maybe I should view it as not the job for me. I believe you should be overall content in what you do for a career.

I saw on my preceptor ship how one senior nurse called the shots on the floor and it sickened me for the others. She had the best shift. 3 twelves of Monday, Thursday, Friday with little deviation. Why? (as you can see she has 2 consecutive middle days, plus the 2 weekend days off) b/c she burns out from the drive from a different state. She wanted to leave work early before report one evening b/c she didn't want to miss the hockey playoff,she did a written report, to heck with everyone else that had to stay and left. She refused to work holidays and gets her way, I really don't care that she has 15 years "experience" she is absolutely rude to the patients who on more than one occassion told me they saw her roll her eyes at questions. She makes darn sure she not only gets her lunch but her break when others don't. Yeah, she's a great asset to the floor and team. You couldn't pay me double to work with them, they're bitter and I see why.

I'm sorry but people like that tick me off. I worked with a lady in my previous job who also had the office seniority. No one else on the team could get any holiday b/c she wanted them even though she didn't have kids. I really didn't care about such pettiness plus I never minded working holidays I find the atmosphere fun and I can see my family later. I've never hurt others for what they want. No matter what my seniority was at any place I believed it was fair to rotate the undesirable things. I have gone w/o lunches so that part of nursing doesn't bother me. I have stayed 3 hours past ending shifts to put in a good job.

I do care very much about others. Just at this point in my life I'm not sacrificing myself any longer. It never got me anywhere that's why I am at the point that as much as I'd like to care about the hospital's position and their investment in me, I need to watch that I'm kept at a sane balance for my health and this vacation does that for me. The hospital doesn't care if the employees are run ragged as long as there's a profit I've seen it, I will accept that for a few years. As mentioned I don't see hospital life long term for me. Too much politcs and backstabbing BTDT. It's a shame, no wonder there is burnout and shortages.

It's very hard to come across in posts. But I did take offense that you seem to think I'm all about me, me, me. And nothing could be further than the truth. I don't equal one week out of a whole year as me, me, me.

oregonchinamom · Jul 29, 2009

i second the advice to not mention it in an interview but after you are offered and before you accept. i will tell you, however, that it may all be moot. if this is a union hospital they will go by the contract. i am pretty union neutral, but i think there are a lot of nurses that don't really understand that yes, the management has to abide by the contract but so do they. there are no "special circumstances". in our hospital, vacation request for the year are due to the vacation committee on feb 15th. they are granted according to seniority. any requests submitted after that date are first come, first serve. so you see, your nurse manager may have no say in if you get this week off or not. if the hospital is unionized, vacation is very likely to be granted according to the contract.

if you are willing to pass this job by for this time off, go for it. you certainly have a better chance if you are willing to negotiate with the other nurses, but i just can't imagine a scenario that would guarantee a new grad time off in july in a hospital setting.

lamazeteacher · Jul 30, 2009

This is a question of "Do you want the job or not?"

Mentioning a possible move is not pertinent. There's a huge turnover of nurses, and 3-5 years is rather lengthy, but it's not worth losing a job.......

Vacations can be sticky. You won't get reassurance that "Of course you can have that, dear" by mentioning that you must have next July off. Anyone who said that is BS'g you, big time! I'd wonder what was wrong with a job if anyone told me that.

Interviews are supposed to inform them about your capabilities, and you about the job and those in charge. Vacations have no place in any interview. Once you're hired, you will find out what their policy is, during orientation, as far as length of time you'll be given for it. Once you meet your teammates, there's usually a calendar posted with requests noted of all those working there, on the computer or in the lounge for nurses, where they post other announcements.

You must get your request in early, and in writing, to whoever does the schedule so once orientation is over, and they like you, and you like it there, get that in pronto!

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jul 30, 2009

Get the job. Ask later (after your 3 month period) then request the time off. If no, then try to find someone to cover you. Then if nothing else works out you can resign and do your trip. I live for my trips to Mexico and my soul requires it. If you were a new grad who hadn't been working for years that would be different. By the time of your trip a milion things may have changed so let time go by and then see what is what.

I have been loyal all my working life to employers, but 99.9% of the time they will not return the favor so fair is fair......................

Kitty Hawk, ADN, RN · Jul 30, 2009

To give an update....

I did not mention on the interview. Actually I suppose that it was a moot point.

Those that said you acrue time as you work were correct, it's that way in this facility as well and actually you get 2 weeks not just one.

However the dept that I applied for has a very leninent policy and was told everyone is extremely flexible many people who have come and gone took vacation time before a year and they're not all about the summer crunch the way some places are. (this info was given by an RN whose vacancy leaves one of the 3 openings)

Okay, sounds like a dream right? Well, not so much fact is this is a medical short stay unit. I absolutely loved the manager, however she was very upfront that she wasn't really looking for a GN, that she has no orientation program and I'd only have about 4 weeks before I'd be pretty much on my own :uhoh21: But she seems like an excellent mgr, really cares about her people and was really great w/me even apolgoizing for being a "downer"

She is not putting a complete stop on it. She left me with the impression that if after I come in and shadow and really do like it and want to give it a shot, she would hire me, she just wants me to know that for a GN it's a very overwhelming position.

She said I would have 2 patients maybe the 1st day, after that the normal 5. This is sort of a mini ER I don't know if medical short stay is a norm around the country.

I'm really, really torn. I think I would love the fast pace, especially increasing the agility of my nursing tasks, but as she knows I don't have a strong skill set. I'm willing to work very hard but will it be enough?

I guess I'm going to pose the q on the graduate nurse forum and see if someone was able to succeed in something similar.

The nurse mgr said that most GN's are just too overwhelmed. I really wanted and loved the burn unit so intense doesn't frighten me, but the "no orientation" seems like a suicide assignment. If it was a normal orientation I'd have no hestitation at all, but really does 4 more weeks make a difference?

As usual I'd appreciate any feedback. But I understand if this isn't the place for that, so I'll post on graduate forum.

SCgirl22 · Jul 31, 2009

I would be wary of a job that did not offer extensive orientation for a new grad. Not only will it be "overwhelming" but letting you go on your own too soon could put your newly earned license on the line. Will you have an option to extend orientation if you don't feel comfortable at the end of 4 weeks? Will there be a preceptor/mentor you can go to with questions? Is the staff supportive there?

I speak from my own experience as I had 6 weeks of orientation in a structured program and still had difficulty at first taking care of 5-6 patients on a fast paced medical floor. I constantly went back to my preceptor and to other staff nurses to ask questions/advice or just an extra set of hands when I was running behind!

Not to worry you, I just don't think any of us really know what we are stepping into with that first job. just my :twocents: ! Good luck with whatever you decide, hopefully you will get the job offer!

DeLana_RN, BSN, RN · Jul 31, 2009

Hi,

I too would be careful with a unit like the one you describe. If the manager even admits that your orientation would be inadquate, believe me, it is. And working hard cannot make up for it if you have no one you can turn to (it sounds like all the nurse have their hands full and would probably not have much time to assist).

But I don't want to be too negative... maybe you won't find it so overwhelming once you shadow. After all, you seem to have previous exprience in the workworld and aren't a traditional 20-something new grad.

Best of luck,

DeLana

Kitty Hawk, ADN, RN · Jul 31, 2009

DeLana and SC....thank you!

See, that's what I'm afraid of, no matter my determination it won't be enough b/c the manager has seen it time and again.

I wonder though why she just didn't give me a "no" instead of phrasing it more like "well if you think you can....."

One of my good friends who has been a nurse for a year now told me to get my boards done 1st. So she confirmed at least that part of my thought process.

After more thought I think I will let the nurse recruitr though that although I'm very interested in the position and really do want to come in to shadow, that if the position won't hold until September there's no use in wasting anyone's time as I know I won't feel comfortable w/o at least having my boards out of the way.

Maybe if some other people in house apply and accept, it will open up other positions. I'm a big believer in what's meant to be will happen, it's just hard to know fully what's around the corner especially in this economy. Thanks again.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jul 31, 2009

Yikes! Even an experienced nurse deserves more of an orientation than that!

Kitty Hawk, ADN, RN · Jul 31, 2009

Yikes! Even an experienced nurse deserves more of an orientation than that!

Really?

I'm not trying to be funny I just wondered what should a new grad look for in orientation? What really floors me too is the nurse recruiter is supposed to screen the prospective candidates many times you don't even make it past her (or so I'm told this was my first opportunity to apply.)

The recruiter has said the only unit that does not hire new grads is the CTICU everything else is okay, so I don't get why they let me interview when she's not really looking for/prepared for a GN. My speculation is that the 2 vacancies are leaving her in a spot and she needs to fill them quick and wasn't planning on a slow intergration.

Hmmmm sounds more and more like I'm doing the right thing by passing this one by.

systoly · Jul 31, 2009

With this proposed orientation this job will be no different than working for an

agency. Furthermore, with 2-3 open slots, chances are the regular staff is very

stretched and may not be able to help much.