How much difference in pay do two year rn's get than four yr??

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I'm a 22yr old male and going into a two year rn degree. I've heard that the only main difference is promotions and such. I'm really just trying to get through school and get some decent money to pay off the debt, then go back and get my masters if i want? Any advice?

actually, i would accept that. if a teacher spent three years focusing on learning how to teach, that teacher would probably be pretty prepared to teach. i have a lot of teachers in my family (most with master degrees) and like nurses, a lot of their learning is on the job. this is not to undermine education, i too think that bsn should be the entry level, but i don't think adn nurses (of which i am one) are less prepared to be good nurses. in fact, the cc i went to has better first-time nclex pass rates than the several highly-ranked universities. and the adn students, because of the focus on clinical work, tend to be better prepared to jump in and work; this levels out after the first year.

in my adn program we did take pathophysiology, ethics and 2 semesters of pharm. we were strongly encouraged to finish our general ed classes which would include stats--and as much as i didn't particularly like that class, i do think it is a good class to take. we didn't take a class on the older adult, but in the bsn program i just applied to, that isn't required either :rolleyes:.

yep, i think any higher education that pertains to nursing should result in higher pay. but, i don't see that happening any time soon. i don't think adn nurses are any less prepared to hit the floor than bsn.

nor do i. i do wish to comment, though, on your remark that your community college has a better nclex pass rate

than "highly ranked universities." while i cannot speak to your community college program, what happens at the cc and hospital nursing school programs in my state is a sham: every year, they trumpet their near 100 percent nclex pass rates as a sign of their superior educations. the result is that they appear to have better programs than the public university i attend, which last year had a pass rate of 89 percent. what those ccs and hospital schools don't tell the public is that they've expelled everyone who might not pass before it's time to take the test -- in the case of the hospital school, only 40 percent of the graduating class received an att. so the reality is, the university -- which doesn't bar anyone from taking the nclex -- has a much higher pass rate. sorry. a major digression here. but this shell game bugs me.

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Specializes in NICU.
Nor do I. I do wish to comment, though, on your remark that your community college has a better NCLEX pass rate

than "highly ranked universities." While I cannot speak to your community college program, what happens at the CC and hospital nursing school programs in my state is a sham: Every year, they trumpet their near 100 percent NCLEX pass rates as a sign of their superior educations. The result is that they appear to have better programs than the public university I attend, which last year had a pass rate of 89 percent. What those CCs and hospital schools don't tell the public is that they've expelled everyone who might not pass before it's time to take the test -- in the case of the hospital school, only 40 percent of the graduating class received an ATT. So the reality is, the university -- which doesn't bar anyone from taking the NCLEX -- has a much higher pass rate. Sorry. A major digression here. But this shell game bugs me.

That would make me very angry, too. I know some schools do that and it's nothing but wrong. I have to say that the NS I attended was very pro-active in keeping students in. The college, itself, is very pro-success for its students; I was surprised. It was a much different environment than the university I had gone to earlier for a different degree.

The instructors were very involved with students, the director of the school knew everyone and how they were doing. Kind of spooky, that, to be walking through the parking lot and have the director stop you and ask what was wrong, your last med/surg test score was lower than you normally get :eek:. Of course at the time I had complaints, but looking back, I think I went to a pretty good school. And I think the director felt like she was having to prove herself against the big guys :rolleyes:; low drop-out rates and high pass rates were her top guns.

PS--that wasn't really a digression, there is no point in touting high pass rates when you are failing your students (I'm not refering only to grades here).

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
A BSN only means you finished the "REQUIREMENTS" deamed necessary to acquire a BSN degree. IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT NURSE IS A BETTER NURSE" I've worked with many BSN degree RNs who just happened to be good nurses "in theory" but do nothing to advance their performance, update their "applied skills", or demonstrate TRUE knowledge in the areas they work in. An RN is only as good as or as knowledgeable as they WANT to be because learning doesn't stop with completing a 4 year degree program. So I take offense as a 2year degree RN when you imply that pts. some how get a "lesser" nurse.

I've precepted many BSNs and ADNs over the years because being in med-surg the two schools favor my unit. I can say for a fact one does not graduate better nurses than the other.

I've seen many ADNs nurses and BSN nurses that are totally clueness and are dreadful nurses from the start. However, most are fairly good, eager and willing to learn. Both are entry level nurses pretty much performing as they should as new grads.

One can always come up with someone of another degree than the one they favor and use them as an example of a bad nurse, but it's not fair to generalize those traits to the entire graduate pool.

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Specializes in mostly in the basement.

Nor does it even really matter "who is the better nurse" when we have these discussions. That really isn't the point we are debating. I really can't recall anyone putting down the skills of our ADN or diploma nurses or diminishing their education. To me, this is a career field issue not an individual job performance review.

I have this fantasy that we if we hold a national 'ADN RN's are truly the most skilled ever' day and everybody smiles and claps if then we could just move on and begin working on the steps we need to take to make our work environments better. I'm fairly sure that all nurses, no matter what their initial preparation, seem to be pretty much in agreement on those negative issues.

Well, raising our entry level requirement is one of the many things we can DO FOR OURSELVES that will enhance our practice and elevate our place on the team where it should already belong. It just is what it is.

For whatever reason, and I won't ascribe motive to others, there is such blatant inability or just refusal to see something that to many seems so obvious. Why are you fighting so hard to keep our place as low man on the totem pole?

Why is there such disconnect between 'hey, I have no power at work over schedule/$$/my manager writes people up for whatever ridiculous thing/ I get grief from every discipline MD/RT/OT/etc. and the fact that we have the least amount of required education of anybody in the hospital. Which leads all to conclude, erroneously certainly, that nursing is easy and a 'lower skill.' Seriously...Don't whine about the treatment if you can't get behind even step 1. We're not gonna change the rules of business(and healthcare we know is first and foremost a business) by digging in our heels and pretending it weren't true.

Anyway, I know, again, people just can't agree so my foray into this debate will conclude for the season again. I just think we desperately need some big picture thinking now more than ever. This endless ADN/BSN argument won't hold out forever. In case you missed it there are a great number of second degree(and even more direct from undergrad) students graduating with higher degrees and these schools are proliferating wildly. This isn't just a few hundred students here and there--we are now at thousands of them per semester. Right or wrong, these are generally people who do know the value of an education(meaning the value of achieving a certain level and what that level allows/demands in a market economy not how great xyz individual program is) and there will be a marked shift in the way nursing is structured. I'm not saying it's right but it is and will be coming. We keep holding on to the ADN because we're stubborn and there will be two(or more) classes of bedside/hospital nurses. Just like the AANA or whoever it is talked about. There will be technical nurses and 'professional' nurses.

I already know which many will strive for. Which do you want to be?

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
The ASN programs in my area require their students to take pharm, patho and ethics. Statistics is part of the general education requirement that fits into the pre-nursing curriculum at many schools.

The ADN program here just added Statistics and Ethics requirements as well. They don't separate the pharm. and patho. though from the cirruclum but teach it within the nursing courses. To do their BSN completion they need to take on government course and 18 months of part-time school, which they could probably finish in less than a year of full time work. So to go from a "two year" degree to a "four year" degree would take them under a year of full time work.

The program in your area and the one here is another example of how ADN programs are taking advantage of students by narrowing the gap between the requirements of a BSN and ADN, and requiring more than 2 years of work. ADNs nowadays take at a minimum three years. If I were an ADN under today's circumstances, I would feel a bit cheated to do all that coursework and practically have a baccalaureate degree yet receive an Associates Degree.

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Specializes in Oncology, Research.
The ADN program here just added Statistics and Ethics requirements as well. They don't separate the pharm. and patho. though from the cirruclum but teach it within the nursing courses. To do their BSN completion they need to take on government course and 18 months of part-time school, which they could probably finish in less than a year of full time work. So to go from a "two year" degree to a "four year" degree would take them under a year of full time work.

The program in your area and the one here is another example of how ADN programs are taking advantage of students by narrowing the gap between the requirements of a BSN and ADN, and requiring more than 2 years of work. ADNs nowadays take at a minimum three years. If I were an ADN under today's circumstances, I would feel a bit cheated to do all that coursework and practically have a baccalaureate degree yet receive an Associates Degree.

I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, I think the extra courses are great and make one more well rounded, but not necessarily a better nurse. But if you go to cc thinking that it will be faster you would be plain wrong. Add on waiting time and you could have gotten your BSN faster.

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The ADN program here just added Statistics and Ethics requirements as well. They don't separate the pharm. and patho. though from the cirruclum but teach it within the nursing courses. To do their BSN completion they need to take on government course and 18 months of part-time school, which they could probably finish in less than a year of full time work. So to go from a "two year" degree to a "four year" degree would take them under a year of full time work.

The program in your area and the one here is another example of how ADN programs are taking advantage of students by narrowing the gap between the requirements of a BSN and ADN, and requiring more than 2 years of work. ADNs nowadays take at a minimum three years. If I were an ADN under today's circumstances, I would feel a bit cheated to do all that coursework and practically have a baccalaureate degree yet receive an Associates Degree.

Well said. This situation is another good argument for making BSN the minimum entry credential. If ADNs are already that close to BSNs, they wouldn't have to go that much further to get the baccalaureate degree and the job opportunities that come with it.

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Specializes in NICU.
the adn program here just added statistics and ethics requirements as well. they don't separate the pharm. and patho. though from the cirruclum but teach it within the nursing courses. to do their bsn completion they need to take on government course and 18 months of part-time school, which they could probably finish in less than a year of full time work. so to go from a "two year" degree to a "four year" degree would take them under a year of full time work.

the program in your area and the one here is another example of how adn programs are taking advantage of students by narrowing the gap between the requirements of a bsn and adn, and requiring more than 2 years of work. adns nowadays take at a minimum three years. if i were an adn under today's circumstances, i would feel a bit cheated to do all that coursework and practically have a baccalaureate degree yet receive an associates degree.

that is part of the reason i am applying for bsn programs now. we would get 11 credit hours (not even considered full-time status) when we spent between 20-25 hours a week just in class and clinicals.

i do believe that bsn should be the entry level for nurses, but i don't believe adn nurses are less prepared. and sometimes a 2 year program gets good nurses into the field who for many reasons (family needs, job needs, etc.) aren't able to finish a 4 year degree at the time.

but, yes, we would come across more professionally with a higher minimum education.

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So, perhaps in response to the fact that people are pushing for a BSN education, ADN programs are increasing their requirements. And now people are hard on them, too?

I live in a state that is mostly rural. If you want to get your BSN, you might very well have to move 400 miles. That might be okay for nurses with no family, for young, straight out of high school nurses. Not for older ones with husbands who have established jobs, who own houses, who have kids in schools. There are many great ADN programs scattered throughout the state. For many, the reason to go to an ADN program is that that is what is available within 200+ miles of their home. Now those ADN programs are increasing their requirements, maybe in response to the call by some that BSN education should be the standard. But that is still not good enough? Then they get it from both sides. Can't win.

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So, perhaps in response to the fact that people are pushing for a BSN education, ADN programs are increasing their requirements. And now people are hard on them, too?

I live in a state that is mostly rural. If you want to get your BSN, you might very well have to move 400 miles. That might be okay for nurses with no family, for young, straight out of high school nurses. Not for older ones with husbands who have established jobs, who own houses, who have kids in schools. There are many great ADN programs scattered throughout the state. For many, the reason to go to an ADN program is that that is what is available within 200+ miles of their home. Now those ADN programs are increasing their requirements, maybe in response to the call by some that BSN education should be the standard. But that is still not good enough? Then they get it from both sides. Can't win.

I don't think anyone means to be hard on ADNs -- quite the opposite. The argument is that ADNs ought to be rewarded with a higher degree. From everything I've read on this forum, it takes three years to complete an ADN, yet you're only rewarded with a two-year degree -- and you're within striking distance of a BSN. It's a lot of work to earn a two-year degree. I think the criticism is aimed at ADN programs that position themselves as two-year programs. Clearly they are not.

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I don't think anyone means to be hard on ADNs -- quite the opposite. The argument is that ADNs ought to be rewarded with a higher degree. From everything I've read on this forum, it takes three years to complete an ADN, yet you're only rewarded with a two-year degree -- and you're within striking distance of a BSN. It's a lot of work to earn a two-year degree. I think the criticism is aimed at ADN programs that position themselves as two-year programs. Clearly they are not.

I know; I meant that now people are hard on the ADN programs from both sides. That they are two year programs, that they should be four year programs; that they aren't academically rigorous enough, that they require too much. We can't have the argument that ADN programs aren't good enough to be the entry level nursing position and that whoever is against this is silly because more education is ALWAYS a good thing; and then turn around and have this discussion that ADN programs are requiring too much of their participants--isn't more education always a good thing? Oh, I forget, of course we can have this discussion, it is the internet!

I'm getting ready to enter an RN to BSN program--online. I don't want the long commute to a classroom based program. A lot of nurses in my state get their ADNs and then do the online program. I'm thankful my ADN required so much; now I don't need much to get my BSN.

I must say, I'm not incredibly motivated to get my BSN. There is no job perk--I won't go up in salary, in status, there isn't a position in my hospital that I want that would now open up for me because I have my BSN. The course work looks pretty repetitive. I'm not even entirely sure why I'm doing it--I guess mostly in case we move (either within the US or abroad, which is a possibility) and the bachelor-degree thing comes into play. Also for the possiblity that maybe I will be too old to do bedside nursing at some point and want one of those rare positions that require a BSN; a school nurse in my local school district, for example.

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Specializes in OR Hearts 10.

One dollar an hour extra for BSN where I work.

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