How long until burn out?

stethoscope723 · Sep 9, 2005

some of you people are killing me with your comments. first of all, i can tell you're all civilians and have never worked in a hospital with mortars flying over your heads and haven't had the true nursing experience. you don't have to be in nursing for the money, to experience burnout. try taking care of iraq insurgents for a year in iraq and have them spit, bite, hit, and crap all over the beds on purpose. i don't think burnout from things like that can be just a "state of mind." i think burnout is very real and happens to the best of nurses who had the best of intentions. i think if you're really trying your best, you're going to get tired eventually. i thought this website might have some helpful suggestions for burnout, but it turns out that most of you still think you're wonderwoman or superman. i live in the real world--guess i'll stick to my own ways to fight burnout--bubblebaths, fun trips on my days off, and making myself take a lunch and bathroom break at least once a shift no matter who's dying. cuz in the end, no one's going to care if i give myself actue renal failure or if i die from malnutrition. keepin it real.

Mommy2Katiebaby · Sep 9, 2005

The thing about this job that came as a shock to me (aside from the level of responsibility you take) was the myth of the kindly old patient propped comfortably on pillows in bed reading vs. the reality, which is often screaming, incontinent, throwing things, obnoxious, demanding, etc. Taking care of someone you genuinely dislike in a caring and loving manner is very, very hard, especially when because THEY have no other outlet YOU become the Victim Du Jour. Nursing schools need to add assertiveness training and "dealing with difficult people" straight into their curricula, so young nice nurses will be a little better prepared! I can recall vividly in my very early days having a patient (this guy had been in a motorcycle wreck and was pretty clearheaded, had no excuse) crap in his bed because his call light hadn't been answered in a manner that he thought was fast enough - and then proceed to punch me in the jaw. I left the room. Just walked out. He didn't get any bedsores or have any consequences, but it sure was unpleasant for him lying there for an hour or so in his own stool. I'd never have done it if he were elderly and confused, but he was neither - just a total s###head. And I knew if I had NOT left, I was going to do something *really* unprofessional to him, so I took the wisest course.

icyounurse, BSN, RN · Sep 9, 2005

I have been a certified medical assistant for over three years. I love what I do at work, but I want to do more, that is one of the main reasons I have gone on to nursing. I love helping people and I find satisfaction from it. In my microbiology class last semester there were a lot of younger girls in their late teens very early twenties (I think one turned 21 the last week of class) that are going into nursing for the $$$$$. They were always talking about which hospitals paid what to new nurses and such and such. They would always complain about how the bacteria always smelled (and I am thinking "You have not smelled gangrene on a massively obese womans genital have you?"...) One girl even said that when she become a nurse that she is going to work in surgery because she does not like people, "but at least in surgery they will be asleep"
Not only am I thinking, these people are hogging spots on the waiting list, but I asked "How long until they burn out?" I do not see people that are doing nursing primarily for the money making it very long... What do you think?

you know i think alot of people who just want $ figure out there are easier ways to make it and quit alot of times

mattsmom81 · Sep 9, 2005

When do we burn out? Well, I've watched sweet young things do it within a year of graduation; and I've watched seasoned nurses just 'get that last straw' and find something more rewarding to do with their time. We all have our breaking point.

For me that came when I realized no matter how good a leader I was, or how technically capable, nor how many extra hours I put in to try and bail out a bad situation; it would never be enough. That the facility and my equally burned out coworkers could not be counted on to do the right thing, (they were imperfect human beings under stress) and I couldn't expect them to care for me. I had to take control of MY life in and outside work; and make sure I was taking care of ME.

It took me about 27 years to reach that point, so I did a lot right all those years. Adjusting the attitude, taking great care not to get TOO wrapped up in the drama of the workplace, making sure not to overdo...knowing thy limits.... my advice for avoiding burnout. :)

The healthcare industry is one that will suck the marow right out of your bones...if you allow it.

directcare4me · Sep 9, 2005

When do we burn out? Well, I've watched sweet young things do it within a year of graduation; and I've watched seasoned nurses just 'get that last straw' and find something more rewarding to do with their time. We all have our breaking point.
For me that came when I realized no matter how good a leader I was, or how technically capable, nor how many extra hours I put in to try and bail out a bad situation; it would never be enough. That the facility and my equally burned out coworkers could not be counted on to do the right thing, (they were imperfect human beings under stress) and I couldn't expect them to care for me. I had to take control of MY life in and outside work; and make sure I was taking care of ME.
It took me about 27 years to reach that point, so I did a lot right all those years. Adjusting the attitude, taking great care not to get TOO wrapped up in the drama of the workplace, making sure not to overdo...knowing thy limits.... my advice for avoiding burnout. :)
The healthcare industry is one that will suck the marow right out of your bones...if you allow it.

I really like the way you have put this. I have about 30 years in, and what you are saying is just right. However, I don't think I have avoided burnout, but I think (hope) I am coping with it. I am detached, but it's the detachment of being able to do my best while I'm there, and not give any of it a thought when I'm not. I just can't anymore; as someone said, it is all used up. I still care, while I am at work, but not in the way I see some of my co-workers, where they don't ever take a meal or bathroom break. I will eat and I will drink water, and take time for the restroom. It's not helping anyone for us not to.

For what it's worth, research-wise, (someone mentioned this) I did (do) have high ideals, high expectations of myself and others, and am just done with running into the brick wall over and over.

mattsmom81 · Sep 15, 2005

I really like the way you have put this. I have about 30 years in, and what you are saying is just right. However, I don't think I have avoided burnout, but I think (hope) I am coping with it. I am detached, but it's the detachment of being able to do my best while I'm there, and not give any of it a thought when I'm not. I just can't anymore; as someone said, it is all used up. I still care, while I am at work, but not in the way I see some of my co-workers, where they don't ever take a meal or bathroom break. I will eat and I will drink water, and take time for the restroom. It's not helping anyone for us not to.
For what it's worth, research-wise, (someone mentioned this) I did (do) have high ideals, high expectations of myself and others, and am just done with running into the brick wall over and over.

I can relate totally. Thanks for sharing. We need to reach a point of self preservation don't we. Take care.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Sep 15, 2005

I have been a certified medical assistant for over three years. I love what I do at work, but I want to do more, that is one of the main reasons I have gone on to nursing. I love helping people and I find satisfaction from it. In my microbiology class last semester there were a lot of younger girls in their late teens very early twenties (I think one turned 21 the last week of class) that are going into nursing for the $$$$$. They were always talking about which hospitals paid what to new nurses and such and such. They would always complain about how the bacteria always smelled (and I am thinking "You have not smelled gangrene on a massively obese womans genital have you?"...) One girl even said that when she become a nurse that she is going to work in surgery because she does not like people, "but at least in surgery they will be asleep"
Not only am I thinking, these people are hogging spots on the waiting list, but I asked "How long until they burn out?" I do not see people that are doing nursing primarily for the money making it very long... What do you think?

I believe that some of the burnout occurs among these younger girls who go into it for the money. If they don't have a good work ethic and a positive attitude toward their working situation they absolutely fall apart when they are confronted daily with the amount of work and stress associated with nursing. If they don't get help and learn to cope with it, they quit. I believe that many erroneously believe that after their 2 years or so of nursing classes that they're good to go. Somehow, they were either not informed that there were going to be several years of an internship-like on the job learning, or they forgot about that. I wouldn't be too concerned about the young lady who thinks surgery is going to be better because the patients will be asleep. She's going to find that she's not going to like some of the doctors or the OR staff either. The doctor's are going to be wide awake and some of them can be way worse to deal with than a patient. Some doctors, unlike patients, can be very intimidating and know how to mentally twist someone's arm if they so desire. At least patients come into and go out of our working life a lot faster than doctors and the other staff members we work with. Continuously seeing the world and what is happening to you in a negative light will also drain the life out of a person. That, unfortunately, is something that nursing school can't fix. And, finally, there are people who just have a history of quitting when things get rough. I don't think the profession of nursing has to take the rap for that.

All that aside, there are some work places that are absolutely horrid. A smart person gets the heck out of those places. Like abused wives, others stay. I gotta wonder about the nurses who stay around and continue to let a hospital dump on them over and over and over and do nothing to better their situation. In our supply and demand capitalistic society the thing to do is to try to better the situation in these places or leave them. Eventually, they go out of business or find efficient administrators to correct the problems. They can't sustain the cost of hiring and training new workers all the time or turning to agency nurses for staff relief. I can't accept the reasoning that some of these abused nurses give that if they leave these skanky places that the patients will suffer. To me, that's not much different from a domestic partner who stays with someone who beats them up all the time because they "love them". It's dysfunctional. To stay merely perpetuates the abusive situation. Do you know how many times I've heard people out in the community utter those famous words, "I wouldn't take my dog there!" when they are talking about one of their local hospitals? If the townspeople know that a hospital sucks I have to wonder what goes on in the minds of the people that continue to work there and also know how bad it sucks. These are the kinds of places that create burnout and disillusionment in the nursing ranks.

It is very frustrating to read some of the posts on these forums, to give people advice based on years of experience and knowledge of what goes on elsewhere in the nursing world only to be scolded and jeered by youngsters who are barely wet behind their ears in the profession. I've worked in some very fine places in my career so I know they exist. I've also worked in some real hellholes where I learned my lesson and got the heck out.

nursing 101 · Sep 15, 2005

Daytonite,

I agreee with you. If it's a bad place and you tried to correct certain things and it's not happening. Get out of there. I hate this false altruistic image that some nurses have. I am a new grad and after being a student nurse I have encountered them. In our management class we had to do a presentation to the nurses on our floor. We had to find an issue that the nurses on our floor dealt with everyday. Needless to say there were alot of them but the main one was nurses not taking a bathroom break or their lunch break. I'm telling you there were about 10-15 nurses on the floor on a daily basis and the only 2 nurses that took their breaks were the 2 male nurses (this was a med-surge floor) which they were looked bad upon from the other nurses. We we did our presentation all we encountered were sneers and one nurse said to us "wait till you guys are nurses and you'll see". Most of them said that they don't have time to take a break and they acted like that was the "normal way" to do things. So my response to them was so you would rather have gastric or bladder problems than take a break?

I know it will be hard and I will try my best to take a break. No sense in taking care of people if I can't even take good care of myself.

rob5252 · Sep 15, 2005

i don't get up each morning to nurse the sick and needy out of the goodness of my own heart. mother theresa i am not. i get up, like everybody else, because i have bills to pay and a dog to feed. you guys make it sound like you are going for your sainthood. remember that at the end of the day, nursing is still a job and a profession. and you don't need to have hegiographic tendencies to be a good nurse. so what if someone wants to go into surgery so they don't have to deal with patients who are awake? be realistic please! besides, it leaves more spaces for the rest of you "saints" to mop a fevered brow, clean up poop and take the abuse from the lovely lady in bed 3 with senile dementia. so instead on wishing that these "bad" and "naughty" nurses would hurry up and burn out, take yourselves back off to the wards and get on with being good nurses instead of judging and condemning the ones without your altruistic romantic notions.

jeez, if it were left up to you guys, you'd tell your bosses not to worry about a pay rise as you do it out of love. get real, please!

directcare4me · Sep 15, 2005

I can relate totally. Thanks for sharing. We need to reach a point of self preservation don't we. Take care.

Yes, exactly. I think we can take care of ourselves first, and still deliver good care to patients. You take care too; glad you believe that you are worth taking care of too.

Thanks for your reply.

rob5252 · Sep 15, 2005

Daytonite,
I agreee with you. If it's a bad place and you tried to correct certain things and it's not happening. Get out of there. I hate this false altruistic image that some nurses have. I am a new grad and after being a student nurse I have encountered them. In our management class we had to do a presentation to the nurses on our floor. We had to find an issue that the nurses on our floor dealt with everyday. Needless to say there were alot of them but the main one was nurses not taking a bathroom break or their lunch break. I'm telling you there were about 10-15 nurses on the floor on a daily basis and the only 2 nurses that took their breaks were the 2 male nurses (this was a med-surge floor) which they were looked bad upon from the other nurses. We we did our presentation all we encountered were sneers and one nurse said to us "wait till you guys are nurses and you'll see". Most of them said that they don't have time to take a break and they acted like that was the "normal way" to do things. So my response to them was so you would rather have gastric or bladder problems than take a break?
I know it will be hard and I will try my best to take a break. No sense in taking care of people if I can't even take good care of myself.

good for you and i hope that you do! i thought that nursing in the uk was bad, but the americans sound just as crazy if not worse. i wonder how much of this altruism is related to nurses frightened of what the others will think of them and how it will affect their careers. i, for one, am a firm believer that if you cannot look after yourself then what good are you to care for others. working without a break is irresponsible, does indeed enduce burn out and unnecessary sickness and shame on the ward managers for not enforcing staff well being with structured breaks. i know that when i get to nurse in your country, i will be taking what is entitled to me as i know that i get tired and short tempered when not fully fully reposed. and that's not fair on the patients or me!