How to find a GOOD nursing job in London?!

[SrnaRN]

Anyways...

I've finally obtained my RN licence here in the U.K. It implies that my original licence as well as my nursing education was completed elsewhere, i.e. the USA, Florida. I've not been working for two years as a consequence of moving to another country (from the USA to the UK, London where I currently live) and being pregnant.

Now that I am finally registered with the NMC and my son is 6 months of age, I am ready to go back to work. The only problem is that I do not know how to go about looking for a job here in the UK and specifically in London.

Just to tell you a little about my career: I've been working in PCU/ Critical Coronary Care (telemetry + post open heart surgery unit) for at least 5 years (which is basically ever since I graduated and got my nursing licence) and for the last 2 years, as I said, I've taken time off. I do not think that it will be hard for me to go back to coronary care nursing, but the only thing is that I may want to change my career path a little bit...I've been thinking about maybe going to work for a plastic surgery office or some skincare clinic (i.e. on the famous Harley Street).

The question is:

1. Do I need some special qualifications in order to make this transition, or it won't be so hard to do?

2. How much does it pay? Mind you, how much would a job of my profile pay here in the UK (London) to begin with and then would a plastic surgery job pay more than for example an NHS job ?

3. NHS job vs. private sector job? Which one pays more and what are the benefits of one over the other?

As you can see, I am completely clueless and really do not have anybody in my current surrounding who is an RN to direct me a little bit!

Any contribution to my topic will be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance :-)

[SrnaRN]

Don't forget the private sector - it's not just the NHS where you can work ;-)

We're recruiting at the moment & so are many other private hospitals in London. We advertise in the Nursing press (Nursing times, Nursing Standard etc) - as do most other private hospitals. They have on-line facilities too - just Google them.

Salary would be around £23,000 pa.

Dear RGN1, (is it the same as RN1 which is what my NMC registration entry says? Also, is that what a band is? Or rather, who determines which band you fall into?!)

Of course I would consider private sector! :-)) That is the reason I am looking into the plastic surgery -Harley street type of jobs! Coming from the USA, I find nursing here quite an adventure...and a lot different that back home, but due to other priorities in my life, I am ready to make "sacrifices"...

Anyways, I could not PM you, so I'll just be rude enough to ask you couple of questions this way:

1. How does private sector job compares to NHS job (with the exception of salary obviously)?

2. What is the holiday/sick time like?

3. What is the patient/nurse ratio? Let's say on the post procedure cardiac intervention/surgery Unit?

and last but not the least :-),

4. Which hospital do you work for ?

Thanks a lot!

[RGN1]

There is one question I won't answer, even if you did PM me because the vast majority of us like remaining anonymous. However, there are still plenty to answer but I can only use personal experience & things will vary from place to place.

1. I think the Private sector compares very favourably with the NHS. In fact recent surveys published in the RCN (Royal College of Nurses) magazine show job satisfaction & feelings of job security are higher in the Private sector. You are also more likely to be much better supported in both mandatory & extra training/study.

2. Salary - although you glossed over it - is actually a consideration. Many private hospitals actually pay less then the NHS, contrary to popular belief. The difference isn't massive but it is there. Many have chosen not to go with the NHS pay scales & it can be an issue. However, personally I'll stick with my free parking, lower nurse to patient ratio & better working conditions - which more than compensate for the fact I get slightly less money.

3. I don't work in your area of expertise but 2 nurses recently left to work in just such a unit in central London, in the private sector & they have a nurse to patient ratio of a max 1:2 in the HDU, 1:3 on the post op ward and the ICU is 1:1. My ratio is a max 1:5 on a general med/surg ward. When I worked in the NHS my min was 1:8 & most shifts I was 1:12 or even on occasions 1:16 with just 1 or 2 HCA's (CNA) to help. That was on an acute medical ward too.

5. Holiday & sick pay is generally equivalent to the NHS. I think we get a few days less since the new scale was introduced but you can build up to around the same with length of service. I don't think our nurses tend to go off sick as much as when I was in the NHS & I know that's because there's a lot less pressure. We work hard but it's positive work not crisis management - which I felt I was dealing with in the NHS. Please note that I'm only talking about my own experience of the NHS here so please don't accept it as the norm without getting other peoples opinions!

6. I think you know I'm not going to answer this one :-) I'll tell you where I work when I leave! However, if you're interested in plastic surgery be warned that some of the patients can be quite something to deal with. We do plenty of cosmetics & although they don't make up the majority of our surgery they do account for 99.97% of our complaints - & those complaints are always punitive!! It's because they have to pay themselves - they're obviously not covered by insurance -a sizeable majority will do anything to try & get their ops cheaper or even free & they do lie to try & get it too!! So your documentation skills need to be superb!!

RN1 means adult general nurse - it's a new registration style the NMC has created with all that money we pay them! I think they're still tinkering with it - good to know our money is being spent so wisely :-)

For info on the banding system you should check out the internet for AfC (& that's not orificenal Football Club!). As I said many private hospitals haven't bothered, including ours. Note what one of the earlier posters said - you don't automatically get higher up the bands just through length of service, you have to acheive certain skills etc & with the NHS not funding training it's an easy way for them to keep you down as long as possible -sorry Mrs Cynic's back home!! ;-) Also please note what was said about your past experience - unlike the USA & Canada it won't make a jot of difference to the band you are placed on, you will most likely be employed as junior nurse & will have to work your way back up.

Hope that helps!

[SrnaRN]

There is one question I won't answer, even if you did PM me because the vast majority of us like remaining anonymous. However, there are still plenty to answer but I can only use personal experience & things will vary from place to place.

1. I think the Private sector compares very favourably with the NHS. In fact recent surveys published in the RCN (Royal College of Nurses) magazine show job satisfaction & feelings of job security are higher in the Private sector. You are also more likely to be much better supported in both mandatory & extra training/study.

2. Salary - although you glossed over it - is actually a consideration. Many private hospitals actually pay less then the NHS, contrary to popular belief. The difference isn't massive but it is there. Many have chosen not to go with the NHS pay scales & it can be an issue. However, personally I'll stick with my free parking, lower nurse to patient ratio & better working conditions - which more than compensate for the fact I get slightly less money.

3. I don't work in your area of expertise but 2 nurses recently left to work in just such a unit in central London, in the private sector & they have a nurse to patient ratio of a max 1:2 in the HDU, 1:3 on the post op ward and the ICU is 1:1. My ratio is a max 1:5 on a general med/surg ward. When I worked in the NHS my min was 1:8 & most shifts I was 1:12 or even on occasions 1:16 with just 1 or 2 HCA's (CNA) to help. That was on an acute medical ward too.

5. Holiday & sick pay is generally equivalent to the NHS. I think we get a few days less since the new scale was introduced but you can build up to around the same with length of service. I don't think our nurses tend to go off sick as much as when I was in the NHS & I know that's because there's a lot less pressure. We work hard but it's positive work not crisis management - which I felt I was dealing with in the NHS. Please note that I'm only talking about my own experience of the NHS here so please don't accept it as the norm without getting other peoples opinions!

6. I think you know I'm not going to answer this one :-) I'll tell you where I work when I leave! However, if you're interested in plastic surgery be warned that some of the patients can be quite something to deal with. We do plenty of cosmetics & although they don't make up the majority of our surgery they do account for 99.97% of our complaints - & those complaints are always punitive!! It's because they have to pay themselves - they're obviously not covered by insurance -a sizeable majority will do anything to try & get their ops cheaper or even free & they do lie to try & get it too!! So your documentation skills need to be superb!!

RN1 means adult general nurse - it's a new registration style the NMC has created with all that money we pay them! I think they're still tinkering with it - good to know our money is being spent so wisely :-)

For info on the banding system you should check out the internet for AfC (& that's not orificenal Football Club!). As I said many private hospitals haven't bothered, including ours. Note what one of the earlier posters said - you don't automatically get higher up the bands just through length of service, you have to acheive certain skills etc & with the NHS not funding training it's an easy way for them to keep you down as long as possible -sorry Mrs Cynic's back home!! ;-) Also please note what was said about your past experience - unlike the USA & Canada it won't make a jot of difference to the band you are placed on, you will most likely be employed as junior nurse & will have to work your way back up.

Hope that helps!

:-))Thank you for the info you so kindly provided! Even if I 'd known the name of the hospital for which you work, it would not hurt you in any way but would only help me in search for the potential job site. I do respect your discretion though.

Interesting to know for the "banding" system...It just isn't fare. Ok, maybe it would make sense in my case, but just because I've been out of practice for 2 years. Still...I think that I 've already achieved a lot of skills which (due to my absence) need "brushing up". That also eliminates a lot of training (at least in my area of expertise) that a novice nurse would have have to otherwise undergo...Strange, but I guess the whole NHS is in crisis and it goes hand in hand.

Mind you, if AFC is not a football club what does the abbreviation stands for so I can look it up?

Holiday time and sick pay is very important of course, especially in my case with a 6 month old baby, so obviously the more-the better for me. That is why I would probably squint around the pay rate a little bit in favour of the latter two.

I've looked for example on the link for the Guy and Thomas Hospital someone left, and there are a lots of band 5 positions openings, but the problem is that all of them are full time. I really could not work a full time any more because I have a little baby now even if I would be interested to work for the NHS. I guess, I am worried that nobody would want to hire part time RN? Maybe I am wrong...

Also, as bleak as at least NHS jobs sound from the description of others and to the large degree, my own experience as a pregnant patient (Royal Free Hospital-Hampstead where I live), I've come to conclusion that I probably would not be happy working for NHS. I am just simply not used to be treated only as a "body", especially coming from such an acute unit in USA where nursing is indeed a lot different that the one in the UK.

If RN1 means adult general nurse (which I knew) what would than RN2 mean? About documentation skills :-)) Do not worry, I come from the USA. Thorough documentation is something that we're used to working for the all private healthcare system...:-)Our practise is always in danger of undergoing major lawsuits.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

AFC= Agenda for Change.

You could always look at practice nurses (make inquiries at local PCT (Primary Care Trust)) they are usually part time

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

Here in the UK we have Enrolled nurses (although a lot have gone through the conversion course to RN1) They would be RN2. Here is a link to NMC registration and qualification codes http://www.nmc-uk.org/aArticle.aspx?ArticleID=134

[RGN1]

Cheers SD! Was just about to reply but you've saved me from having to research the website!!!

As far as part time nursing goes - part time is not too difficult to find. I work part time & it has not held me back at all. I've even gained promotion while working part-time! SD is also correct about practice nursing, it's certainly another option you could consider.

I suggest you go check out the Nursing times website for jobs & any other sites like it.

In the meantime it might also be worth signing on with an agency. You can choose your hours & the pay is OK. It might also lead to you finding the place you'd like to work. We've taken on agency nurses onto our permanent staff in the past & it's worked out well. Then at least you can start getting some experience under your belt again.

[abiola07]

Hello,congrats to those of you who have just received your PIN from the NMC.I have been stucked cuz of IELTS but am hoping that i will make it when i see my last exam result in Jesus name.I learnt that ONP can only be done with a student visa,is that true.

I would like to encourage those looking for a job ,never give up.There are still jobs out there yet to be filled.Just keep making research about available site,some friends got NHS jobs and had permit with it,so don't give up.Pray and let God fix you up.

[cariad]

when a nurse moves from the uk to the us they are just a staff nurse on the floor, regardless of how much experience they have from the uk. its only after you are orientated to the way of nursing in another country, that you can make decisions about where you want to work and what grade that you want to aspire to. some uk nurses are happy working at the lowest band while they have babies and young children as there are less work pressures for them. some are career orientated and work their way to the top.

[SrnaRN]

when a nurse moves from the uk to the us they are just a staff nurse on the floor, regardless of how much experience they have from the uk. its only after you are orientated to the way of nursing in another country, that you can make decisions about where you want to work and what grade that you want to aspire to. some uk nurses are happy working at the lowest band while they have babies and young children as there are less work pressures for them. some are career orientated and work their way to the top.

wow cariad :-( , that really sound discouraging. with my low expectations, i even feel worst now!

mind you, was that your experience in the uk given that you're the usa nurse? or maybe you're an uk nurse who moved to the usa?

i do not think that being a mother needs to have anything to to with the level of ones professional occupation though. apart that such a woman could choose to work part time, i do not see any other reason why a working mother should be professionally degraded.

silverdragon102 and rgn1 thank you for your help and suggestions. i really appreciate it and will certainly take it on board when looking for a job. i probably have a lot more questions, but i can't think of any at the moment.

abiola :-), thanks a lot for your support:cheers:

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

Wow Cariad :-( , that really sound discouraging. With my low expectations, I even feel worst now!

Mind you, was that your experience in the UK given that you're the USA nurse? Or maybe you're an UK nurse who moved to the USA?

I do not think that being a mother needs to have anything to to with the level of ones professional occupation though. Apart that such a woman could choose to work part time, I do not see any other reason why a working mother should be professionally degraded.

Silverdragon102 and RGN1 thank you for your help and suggestions. I really appreciate it and will certainly take it on board when looking for a job. I probably have a lot more questions, but I can't think of any at the moment.

Abiola :-), thanks a lot for your support:cheers:

I have known many working mums who was happy at the level they were at for the time being whilst there children are young as it meant they could spend much time with family, in no way was degraded. Also considering nursing is predominantly female we actually are not family orientated and the shift times are awful At least with the US style on working set shift and not rotation it can make child care a bit easier. UK has not got to that stage although some hospitals have gone back to having permanent night shift nurses.

[SrnaRN]

I have known many working mums who was happy at the level they were at for the time being whilst there children are young as it meant they could spend much time with family, in no way was degraded. Also considering nursing is predominantly female we actually are not family orientated and the shift times are awful At least with the US style on working set shift and not rotation it can make child care a bit easier. UK has not got to that stage although some hospitals have gone back to having permanent night shift nurses.

There is nothing wrong with being "at your own level" of work and working part time for anybody, especially for the working mom. Here we're talking starting from the lowest and settling just for any nursing job, and the only reason for that as implied by Cariad, is that I am a working mom?! I just simply do not see the connection?! The fact that an experienced nurse from another country should start at the lowest level is degrading enough, you think? It might be the case here in the UK, but it doesn't make it right, doesn't it?

"Also considering nursing is predominantly female we actually are not family orientated and the shift times are awful"

Sorry, but the above statement doesn't really make sense to me? Everybody has a family life and we're not talking about jobs being "family orientated". I guess, perheps I should have not mentioned that I have a little baby...Darn

As far as your thoughts of USA nursing, I think you're wrong. It is a very difficult market on which you have to survive using a lot more effort than here. Just the fact that we have a lot more autonomy than UK nurse makes it darn more responsible...I do not even want to start talking about maternity leaves and other "benefits" for the working moms ...simply because there are none

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

There is nothing wrong with being "at your own level" of work and working part time for anybody, especially for the working mom. Here we're talking starting from the lowest and settling just for any nursing job, and the only reason for that as implied by Cariad, is that I am a working mom?! I just simply do not see the connection?! The fact that an experienced nurse from another country should start at the lowest level is degrading enough, you think? It might be the case here in the UK, but it doesn't make it right, doesn't it?

"Also considering nursing is predominantly female we actually are not family orientated and the shift times are awful"

Sorry, but the above statement doesn't really make sense to me? Everybody has a family life and we're not talking about jobs being "family orientated". I guess, perheps I should have not mentioned that I have a little baby...Darn

As far as your thoughts of USA nursing, I think you're wrong. It is a very difficult market on which you have to survive using a lot more effort than here. Just the fact that we have a lot more autonomy than UK nurse makes it darn more responsible...I do not even want to start talking about maternity leaves and other "benefits" for the working moms ...simply because there are none

I have been told that when I get to the US and work (although now stuck in retrogression and moving to Canada with husband's job)I to will go to the bottom and have to start all over again, in the same way as you may have to and although in some instances my experience will count there will no be seniority. Although we have seniority in the UK when it comes to holidays it is generally done on first come first served, also accepted when working in a hospital setting that holidays over Christmas and New year is not allowed (unless working in a mon-fri setting within in the hospital that usually closes over holidays) and only once the off duty has been done for that period and staffing levels sorted is anyone given the chance to request some time off over that period and of the 3 bank holidays over Christmas/New year you are only entitled to 1 off. That is how it has worked in the hospitals I have worked out, others may have a slightly different take.

Nursing in the UK many years ago used to be classed as for life not any more and have known some nurses loose their job due to restructure as NHS Trusts look at ways to save money, many newly qualified nurses struggle to find work and if you move due to say husband's job then very hard to find work.

I also disagree on more autonomy in the US as I have on many occasions spoke about nursing with a very dear close friend who is an experience US RN and she is amazed at the things I can do without getting orders from doctors. I think it is more of a case we work differently