How far can a hospice nurse go, spiritually-speaking?

Specialties Hospice

Published

Hello, everyone. I'm brand new to this forum and I just got hired to start a home health hospice job in the middle of June. I have neither home health experience nor hospice experience. I did bedside hospital nursing for 14 years and just could do it no longer. I imagine that holding hands and listening will be a big part of what I can offer to my patients and their families, but what about God? How far can you go in comforting your patients and their loved-ones? If they are afraid of dying and you know you have good news for them, just how much can you say?

Thanks and I'm glad to be a part of this great forum. I look forward to getting to know all of you and making some friends.

Cheri :heartbeat

Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care, Gero, dementia.

Just joined this forum and am overwhelmed with all the wonderful threads to read (instead of working on my dissertation, sigh).

The suggestions that have been have all been spot on, and I just want to add something for folks to think about: I know that a lot of hospice nurses have strong spiritual senses and beliefs and I think that's a good thing, however, as several people have pointed out, not everyone is Christian, and not only that, some people are made very uncomfortable by overt Christianity (I personally am a Jew and a pagan so I'm talking from a very personal as well as professional place here). One of the things I sometimes have a problem with is seeing nurses wearing big crosses. I know that everyone has a right to present themselves however, but to me, when you're already going into a potentially emotionally loaded situation, that as part of the initial presentation/impression is not necessarily the most sensitive and inclusive approach.

I also want to make a comment about chaplains. I just finished a palliative care fellowship that included myself, a psychology fellow, two MD fellows, a SW fellow and two chaplain fellows. Hearing about their training as chaplains made me even more impressed with this group of professionals. They are trained to attend so carefully to both the layers of meanings in what others say and their own responses/ reactions/behavior. I think I'm pretty good at active, empathetic listening and having appropriate things to say in many situations, but no where the depth that they do. I would not hesitate to have them talk to any of my patients, no matter what their spirituality or religiosity.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

The scripture that Irishpooh quoted was for ME, not evidence of me looking for scriptures to quote to the patients. If you read the scripture she quoted, it would clearly not be something I would be quoting to patients. Some people see a certain word and suddenly a response is triggered within them, and they cease to be reasonable or even logical.

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but I feel that by asking this question on such a forum as this was the SAFE way to get a bevy of answers and some insight into the situation. I respect your expertise and wisdom, and know I can learn a lot from my associations here on the forum.

Some of you are clearly disturbed and even alarmed by my question. You suspect I'm going into Hospice to "recruit souls." No. Such simplistic thinking and this air of judgementalism is offensive to me, and frankly, I hope you are not my nurse when it comes my time to go.

Being politically correct is more important to some of you than being there for the patient! What a shame.

My question should have remained a private one, but since I trusted the people of this forum to weigh-in, I will try to learn from the advice you have offered me. But please, don't judge my motives, or presume to know my intentions. You are not qualified to do so.

Thank you for any encouraging and helpful posts, and for welcoming me to the world of Hospice Nursing. I don't take my position lightly, hence I ask questions. If you attack people who have the courage to ask questions, what kind of people will you have left? Think about it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

...And you are quoting the Dalai Lama? Am I missing something here? "Stay away from our hospice patients." Are you for real? Practice what you preach.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Some of you are clearly disturbed and even alarmed by my question. You suspect I'm going into Hospice to "recruit souls." No. Such simplistic thinking and this air of judgementalism is offensive to me, and frankly, I hope you are not my nurse when it comes my time to go.

Being politically correct is more important to some of you than being there for the patient! What a shame.

It's not being politically correct. It's being sensitive of the patients needs. No one suspects you of anything. Religion is just a charged topic. Which is why it doesn't belong in nursing... ever.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
if they are afraid of dying and you know you have good news for them, just how much can you say?

cheri :heartbeat

i only asked how much could be said if a patient was terrified of dying. i don't think anyone addressed that part of the senerio. the scripture that "irishpooh" quoted was right on the money. thank you for taking the time to look it up and for including it in this thread. that was what i was hoping for; sound advice.

cheri

first, you come and ask about sharing your "good news" with a terrified, dying patient:

then, you state that only irishpooh addressed your question.

that was certainly not the case...at all.

it's as if you only responded to scripture and no one/nothing else.

if you attack people who have the courage to ask questions, what kind of people will you have left? think about it.[/size]

yep, some of us will get our radar up if we feel you only hear what you want to hear.

and especially, if that involves jeopardizing the well being of our pts, darned right i'll get in fighting mode.

even after rereading your posts, i'm still not understanding what you were looking for, since you did not seem satisfied with the feedback/input you had gotten.

have you considered parish nursing?

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×
The scripture that Irishpooh quoted was for ME, not evidence of me looking for scriptures to quote to the patients. If you read the scripture she quoted, it would clearly not be something I would be quoting to patients. Some people see a certain word and suddenly a response is triggered within them, and they cease to be reasonable or even logical.

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but I feel that by asking this question on such a forum as this was the SAFE way to get a bevy of answers and some insight into the situation. I respect your expertise and wisdom, and know I can learn a lot from my associations here on the forum.

Some of you are clearly disturbed and even alarmed by my question. You suspect I'm going into Hospice to "recruit souls." No. Such simplistic thinking and this air of judgementalism is offensive to me, and frankly, I hope you are not my nurse when it comes my time to go.

Being politically correct is more important to some of you than being there for the patient! What a shame.

My question should have remained a private one, but since I trusted the people of this forum to weigh-in, I will try to learn from the advice you have offered me. But please, don't judge my motives, or presume to know my intentions. You are not qualified to do so.

Thank you for any encouraging and helpful posts, and for welcoming me to the world of Hospice Nursing. I don't take my position lightly, hence I ask questions. If you attack people who have the courage to ask questions, what kind of people will you have left? Think about it.

I have just reread the entire thread, after reading your comment above, and I don't see where anyone has been, IMO, judgmental or simplistic in responding to you, or that anyone has "attacked" you. It seems to me that posters on the thread have been sensitive to how important a part of individuals' lives our personal religious beliefs are, and only suggested that if it's going to be a big conflict or stressor for you to not share your personal views with your clients, hospice may not be the best clinical setting for you. You initiated the thread by asking about sharing your "good news" with clients. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has seen nurses attempt to force their religious beliefs on others, at various times over the years -- it does happen, and I think there's widespread concensus within the nursing community that that's highly unprofessional and inappropriate behavior. It's not about being "politically correct," it's about respecting the client's autonomy and her/his right to her/his own beliefs/views.

Again, I encourage you to discuss your question with your supervisors and be sure you're very clear on what the agency's guidelines and expectations are in this area; and I wish you well for your new career direction.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care, Gero, dementia.
It's not being politically correct. It's being sensitive of the patients needs. No one suspects you of anything. Religion is just a charged topic. Which is why it doesn't belong in nursing... ever.

Hmm, two signs of someone not wanting to engage in a real discussion: calling them a "Nazi" or calling them "politically correct." I agree, I didn't see anyone being politically correct, just trying really hard to walk that line of sharing information that may not be what one wants to hear.

That said, I have a problem with absolutes and saying that religion doesn't belong in nursing may be a bit absolutist -- but again, I think we have a tendency to conflate religiosity with spirituality. As many have said -- meet the patient where they are and do what you can to meet their needs, physical, emotional, material or spiritual, not what you think is what they need, BUT I also think we need to not be afraid of spirituality. I think having driven it so much out of health care we have lost something that is very important and useful, both to ourselves as care providers and our patients.

The key is as has been stated so many times, making it appropriate to THAT patient (or family member!) at THAT TIME, not what works best for you.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
...And you are quoting the Dalai Lama? Am I missing something here? "Stay away from our hospice patients." Are you for real? Practice what you preach.

i've given your posts and my responses, a lot of thought.

and i can see where some of my remarks would offend you.

i'm sorry, gardener.

i really am.

i don't know how many times i have wanted to share my "good news" with dying pts, that yes, there is a wonderfully loving God just awaiting your arrival, and show you the glory and grace of Him and His love.

that you have nothing to fear because your life here on earth, was likely comparable to some aspects of hell and you will soon be embraced with every conceivable facet of peace, goodness and truth.

but i can't share that...

not unless the pt makes it crystal clear, that is what he is seeking.

it's the hospice nurses who will try and make sense out of their lives;

and that they can die, knowing they were of value and service to others.

before i start rambling, i will close by saying that i definitely think your heart is in the right place.

you can certainly share your love and sensitivity w/o disclosing its source.

i do believe that Jesus wanted us to lead by example.

we all know those people who make us feel so very unique and blessed, yet they share this gift through their actions.

the words inevitably, mean very little.

i wish you much peace, cheri.

and again, my apologies for an oh-so-typical-kneejerk-reaction from big mouth, herself.:)

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Thank you. And now it's time for my apology. I am totally new to this site and thought that I was getting email alerts whenever anyone posted to this thread. I just read all four pages of reponses, and I had only received a small fraction of email alerts. I was responding to only a few posts, thinking that was all there was. So, my responses were not based on the entire picture. There is so much great input from all of you and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for contributing.

I want to be a terrific Hospice nurse. That is why I'm seeking answers and advice. I appreciate that there is a very fine line to walk when working with our patients. That is always at the forefront of my mind, and I am very aware of not offending anyone. I'm very happy to have found this forum and I hope that we have not gotten off on the wrong foot. I am not a radical or pushy person. I am extremely sensitive and compassionate. I know that we all are, or we would not have chosen such an area to practice nursing. Thanks to all of you, for everything you posted, and I do apologize for my error.

Cheri

Up Vote Up Vote ×

but please, do not ever, EVER say, "have you met Jesus?"

just keep in mind, it is always about them, and never about us.

i am an RN who worked in hospice for years and loved it. NOW i'm an ordained priest but i find myself back in my home state (deep in the heart of the bible belt) with my husband, because he's looking for a priest job, too. (he is an internationally famous compounding pharmacist and that's how we met, when we worked together in hospice....it's a long beautiful story but he always says, "death has been good to us."

anyway, i get the wild heebie jeebies when a CHAPLAIN "forces" his (literally in this case) own godstuff onto pts/clients and their care-givers.

BOTH our chaplains are flaming southern baptists and everyone at hospice either expects everyone to be Xan (christian) or they are bound and determined to "share" in order to MAKE folks Xan...

i have been doing volunteer work for a particular hospice since i've not been able to find a nursing job either. this is NOT how i remember hospice!!

we've been out of the US for over three years as missioners. i spent two of those years writing grants and trying to get hospice going in a particular region/culture of that country

thank you all for this fabulous site

the vicar of blue

Up Vote Up Vote ×

amen to that!

Up Vote Up Vote ×

yes, about the cross thing. as a chaplain for The Neptune Society (the greatest job i ever had!) i wore no collar and certainly no cross UNLESS it was a cross whose "arms" were equal and had a circle around it, a symbol in many cultures. since i am a Xan and needed a 'tangible' to ground me, i looked for other symbols. since it was Neptune and I was helping families create "liturgies"/goodbyes on a yacht, I wore LOTS of dolphins (early Christ symbol). i also have a collection of scallop shells in many forms and made out of many mediums--like a scallop shell, the symbol for pilgrimage/journey, also the symbol of st james, and the shell often used for baptism.... there are LOTS of Xan symbols that do not "offend".... we just need to be creative. it's important that our own needs be met, too, but not at the expense of offending a ct/pt, caregiver, staff of facility. i kept a pin of the Virgin de Guadalupe/"La Morenita" pinned to my bra or I had a rosary pinned to an inside pocket.... the ONLY cross i ever wore was a "Brigid's Cross" since I'm half Irish and if i knew the family was irish, regardless of faith practice.... circles work, spirals work...a google search reveals many ways to ground ourselves in our own "way" while not screaming "I"M A CHRISTIAN" to those with whom i worked...

i created a booklet of prayers and poems from many cultures; i changed any specific Xan godstuff to (usually) one of the 99 names of God that comes from Islam...i used a LOT of Rumi, too.... and Mary Oliver and LOTS of Celtic stuff, pagan and Xan, with the Xan specifics changed and included in brackets the Xan words in case the family requested something "Xan." i am currently working on a similar booklet for ALL our hospice employees... it really helps to keep info about faiths other than your own, particularly as that faith tradition relates to death and dying....

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment