How is this fair?

Trauma Columnist · Jun 16, 2010

Some states (and I know IL is one) have a list of disqualifying offenses that it doesn't matter how long its been, the amount of rehabilitation, etc.

Is your offense one of these?

Please don't state your offense, you might want to just look it up on the BON site for your state or contact them directly.

I know in IL, any crime against a child or elderly person is an auto-disqualifier.

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 16, 2010

traumaRUs is correct. Check with your BON and should be outlined in detail what are dis-qualifiers.

I asked the Chairperson of the program what the next step would be when my history came back. I was told there would be no further steps because I would be denied.

I'm certain this particular program knows what their clinical sites will/will not accept. And, that is probably the reason was an absolute no.

But, that doesn't hold true with all programs/clinical sites.

So, you may be able to get into another program with different rules about criminal hx.

But, again, this may prove difficult.

Trauma Columnist · Jun 16, 2010

Here is what Ca says:

"3. Is there any specific conviction that will automatically disqualify an applicant from receiving a license?

No. There is not any one specific type of conviction that will disqualify an applicant. Again, the Board must review, on a case by case basis, all convictions and supporting documentation to determine if an application will be approved or denied."

Board of Registered Nursing - Applicant Frequently Asked Questions

From Delaware:

"Conviction of the following crimes will automatically disqualify a person from working in a long term care facility: felony theft, drug and violent offenses, and offenses involving patients and other vulnerable persons. Conviction of some lesser offenses may also lead to disqualification."

DLTCRP Services: Background Checks

From IL:

"The Act provides that a covered employer may not knowingly hire or continue to employ any individual in a position that involves direct care who has been convicted of committing or attempting to commit one or more of the listed offenses of the Criminal Code of 1961, the Cannabis Control Act, or the Illinois Controlled Substance Act. The Act includes over fifty generally serious offenses which will disqualify the hiring of an applicant or the retention of an employee, including first and second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter, assault, battery, theft, robbery, arson, unlawful use of a weapon and manufacture or trafficking in marijuana. The Act specifically provides that covered employers will not be liable for a refusal to hire or retain an applicant or employee who has been convicted of one or more of the enumerated criminal offenses."

Employer Guidelines for Complying with the Illinois Health Care Worker Background Check Act : On-Line Employment & Labor Library : Wildman

PhoenixTech, LPN · Jun 16, 2010

Thank you for replying traumaRUS

No my state doesn't have a disqualifying offense list. Each case is reviewed on it's own merits. However, to work in a Nursing home you have to get clearance from the Dept. Health & Human Services which I'm in the process of.

I did the research into the Board's requirements and the like. It's just the matter of getting to the Board.

_phaedra_ · Jun 16, 2010

Hi, thanks for posting this. Also, thanks for responding to me when I had questions on here a while ago, I remember you. I also want to pursue a career in nursing with a background that is not in the disqualifying list, at least for fingerprint clearance cards. I know in AZ that if there are crimes against children or adults, one may never be eligible for a fingerprint clearance card. For other crimes, you can appeal it when you apply for a fingerprint clearance card and after some hassle, most likely get it. From there, some of the public nursing schools in Maricopa county say that you need to have a unrestricted fingerprint clearance card to get in, this means no driving restrictions, etc. I'm not sure if you need fingerprint clearance cards where you live and if you do, it seems you are beyond this point. I wonder why, at this point, why the school is denying you? I wonder if private nursing schools have different standards.

elkpark · Jun 16, 2010

The director of the program may be doing you a favor and saving you some money and effort by advising you from her previous experience with similar situations -- I taught in a nursing program that ran background checks on all the students because the clinical sites required it, but the school would go ahead and accept people even when they had backgrounds that the school knew would make them ineligible for licensure or would create problems with clinicals. When I asked about this (because it seemed pretty irresponsible to me), I was told that licensure difficulties were between the student and the BON, not the school's responsibility -- the school would happily sign someone up and take her/his tuition money for four years while knowing that s/he wouldn't be able to get licensed, or take the money and progress her/him through the program until a clinical site refused to take her/him, and then kick her/him out of the program. I thought that was a pretty creepy, unethical way to run the program.

If this school continues to refuse, there are plenty of other nursing programs in the US ...

Best wishes!

Racharina · Jun 17, 2010

Phoenix, I liked your posting saying >>>Please, if you have nothing useful and encouraging to say to me, don't say anything at all

But anyway, as I read, I'm starting to think it is up to the school and the hospitals. For example, my school is pretty harsh. I am still up in the air about acceptance (more likely I won't be accepted)... Someone sent me a private message and said she asked to talk to the Director and she truly apologize and said she was sorry about her deferred conviction... the school was really easy on her and let her stay. I haven't been able to reply to her because I need 15 posts in order to have permission to send private messages.

Anyway, when i filled out my school application they only asked for any misdemeanor or felonies. A month after being accepted, I got an infraction and they said if that shows I won't be able to get in. So, their application is not 100% true.

I hope everything works out.

PhoenixTech, LPN · Jun 17, 2010

Thank you all for your replies.

No _phaedra_, my state or school doesn't require fingerprint clearance and there are no disqualifying offenses. However, for the Nursing Homes, if you have certain convictions you have to go through a clearance procedure where you can explain yourself and present evidence of rehabilitation before you can work there or do clinicals there. That's what I'm in the process of doing now.

elkpark thank you for responding, I've followed you on this site and really respect your knowledge and views. When your school said that licensure was between Board and student, that is exactly what I'm pushing for and looking forward to. I understand that I have to live my life despite not knowing the outcome of everything I attempt to do and I do believe in miracles. I'd like the opportunity to get to the Board.

If the director had asked me what my history was and how long ago it was, then I'd be satisfied that she spoke with authority. However, since the moment I said 'history' she said no and since she confirmed that if they had known they wouldn't have accepted me, I'm flummoxed as to how the decision is left up to the clinical agencies as not only the program material states, but also as my own acceptance letter states. If it's as she says it is, that no clinical agencies in my state accepts people with any criminal history regardless of details, but the Board is saying that they go on a case by case basis, it seems to me that this sort of practice should be discriminatory. I'm not saying we have a law like that, I'm saying the state needs to seriously take a look at it. Maybe adopt the declaratory order process that Texas has.

I've been doing Patient Care for 2 years now and I disclosed my history with my job before I was hired. I know for a fact that I'd be able to do clinicals at my job, which is one of my school's clinical sites. In any event, I'm going to work on getting my own clinical clearance and if I'm not able to, I'll concede that this particular opportunity is not for me at this time. I have till September to get it together, I'll keep you posted. :)

Racharina · Jun 17, 2010

I meant to say a month "prior" I was accepted in the program. :heartbeat

elkpark · Jun 18, 2010

elkpark thank you for responding, I've followed you on this site and really respect your knowledge and views. When your school said that licensure was between Board and student, that is exactly what I'm pushing for and looking forward to. I understand that I have to live my life despite not knowing the outcome of everything I attempt to do and I do believe in miracles. I'd like the opportunity to get to the Board.
If the director had asked me what my history was and how long ago it was, then I'd be satisfied that she spoke with authority. However, since the moment I said 'history' she said no and since she confirmed that if they had known they wouldn't have accepted me, I'm flummoxed as to how the decision is left up to the clinical agencies as not only the program material states, but also as my own acceptance letter states. If it's as she says it is, that no clinical agencies in my state accepts people with any criminal history regardless of details, but the Board is saying that they go on a case by case basis, it seems to me that this sort of practice should be discriminatory. I'm not saying we have a law like that, I'm saying the state needs to seriously take a look at it. Maybe adopt the declaratory order process that Texas has.

My comment was really directed more toward the clinical facilities -- that the director of your school may be aware that the clinical facilities (at least, some of them) won't accept anyone with a background, and she is trying to save you some time, money and effort, which is more than the last program in which I taught was willing to do for prospective students. :rolleyes: I doubt she is saying that no clinical agencies in the state accept anyone with a background; she would only be talking about the agencies the school uses for clinicals. However, those are the agencies you're restricted to for school clinicals -- you can't just go out and find random agencies that are willing to let someone with your history come there; the school has to have a contract with the agency, the agency has to be approved by the BON as a student clinical site, you have to have a clinical instructor with you and it's not reasonable for the school to send a clinical instructor to a "special" clinical site with one student instead of a group. There are all kinds of practical and regulatory issues involved. (If that is really the issue; obviously, I don't know that -- I'm just speaking v. generally.)

There's no real connection between licensure and employment -- I mean, in the sense that licensure guarantees employment. Just because the BON is willing to license someone, that has nothing to do with whether employers will be willing to hire that person -- and the BON has no authority to compel employers to hire anyone. As long as they're not violating Federal or state labor or equal opportunity laws, employers are free to set whatever standards they choose (as long as they apply them equally/fairly). There are lots of threads here from nurses who got in trouble for something, got their licenses suspended, jumped through all the hoops necessary to get their licenses back, and are now v. frustrated because they can't find job because employers don't want to hire them with their background, even though they have an active, valid license. Lots of healthcare employers won't hire anyone with criminal backgrounds, and won't permit students with criminal backgrounds to come for clinicals. It may not be fair, but employers are within their rights to do so.

I'm not trying to browbeat or criticize you at all; I just find that students and prospective students typically aren't aware of how all this works. I do hope you'll be able to find a good outcome for your situation!

Best wishes -- :balloons:

PhoenixTech, LPN · Jun 18, 2010

please let me explain elkpark, because somewhere along the way, the lines got twisted. i understood your post perfectly. i know that you ment the director knows that the clinical sites affiliated with the school doesn't accept anyone with a criminal history. my response was this, the course material as well as my acceptance letter states, 'positive criminal histories will be reviewed by the clinical sites and if you are denied clinical placement with them you will have to withdraw from the program' (not a direct quote).

when i asked what the procedure would be as far as the review process, she stated there would be no review because she already knows they won't accept anyone with criminal histories. my reasoning is this, she didn't ask me what the history entails or how long ago it was, so for her to make that particular statement would indeed imply that any criminal history, across the board will be denied. if that is the case, then the course material would read, 'criminal histories of any sort will not be accepted at this school', or something to that effect.

now if that is indeed the case, then that practice sounds discriminatory to me. i specifically stated that i know of no law to that effect, but that the matter of the contradictory practice of the board, (case by case decisions) & the schools, (no criminal histories allowed) should be seriously looked at and maybe something akin to the declaratory order process that texas has, can be implemented.

now as far as employment goes. i mentioned nothing about employment after licensure. nor did i imply that the board can force someone to hire me. i'm astonished at that whole section because i've read this whole criminal history thread and i'm aware of rn's who are unable to obtain employment with histories. i'm also aware of rn's that are able to obtain employment with histories. i didn't wake up yesterday gung ho to become a nurse. i'm well aware of the risks. i just happen to believe in miracles, as i've already mentioned, and even moreso, that i'm in the care of a god who wants for nothing but my success. not going to get overly spiritual right now, i'll just say that i believe in me and i believe in him. i already work in a healthcare facility.

finally, do you really think that i don't know that i'd have to do clinicals at the contracted sites? wow. did you really picture me going from one healthcare facility to another asking if i can do clinicals with them? and did you really expect me to go to the school and insist on someone accompanying me to whatever site said yes? i'm suprised that you'd think that i would be that uninformed and naive. i know all of the clinical sites that they use. i work at one of them. it seems to me that the more detail i try to give, the more out of context the information is taken. in that respect, i'll just follow up on this thread when my particular situation is resolved. whether the resolution is to my favor or not.

no elkpark, i don't feel browbeaten or criticized, i do however feel patronized and ridiculed.