4 hours between shifts

jkaee · Aug 10, 2005

Honestly, if the DON was so concerned, like you are about your fellow co-worker, then SHE should come in and fill in for a shift. That's part of her job description, too, the last time I checked. If there is absolutely no one else to cover (which I highly doubt) they can either call in agency or have another nurse from management come in and work at least an 8 hour shift. You might have to buckle down and just refuse to work such an unsafe schedule. Ultimately, it is up to the DON to make sure there is safe staffing, and if everyone refuses or can't do it, then it's her rear end on the line to make sure she comes in or has somebody else from management. DON's aren't exempt from patient care.

krob0729 · Aug 10, 2005

It is an act of god-nurse went into labor preterm. I already told don I wouldn't do it again. Luckily I live 1 minute away by car. I figure I will sleep all day Monday, unplug phones etc. I usually won't work more than weekends and 1 day/week. I took a shift Mon. only because I would get Friday off. The nurse in question has been trying to get pregnant for 6 years. They have stopped the labor but at 26 weeks they want her on bed rest. In that situation I would want someone to help me

Sorry, but when considering my license and pt. care, I would have told them to dip into the 'nurse pool' if they have one, or better call agency. I can also understand where you're coming from too though.

krob0729 · Aug 10, 2005

Of course you would, and it is very kind-hearted of you to want to help her. But the thing is, it isn't her that you are helping, it's your work place, your employer. It is your employer who is responsible for providing SAFE and effective care for the institution which they own/manage. Not you; I strongly urge you to make sure that this is legal in your state, because you CAN be held responsible by your state board of nursing if it is not; take care and good luck.
I also don't think this qualifies as an "act of God"; it would fall more under illness of a staff member, and it is the employer's responsibility to cover this, not fellow staff members.

:yeahthat: That's exactlyl what I was trying to get across in my previous post. Excellent post directcare4me :yeah:

LegalBeagle · Aug 10, 2005

It might be illegal, and it's definitely unsafe!
I would check with my BON and state Dept. of Labor about whether your employer can require this.
Remember, it's your license -- if you end up making a serious mistake because you were so exhausted, I guarantee you your employer is not going to step forward and say, "Oh, well, it's not really her (his) fault -- we insisted s/he work those awful hours; you should blame us." No, your employer will be the first in line to point the finger at YOU and blame YOU for the bad outcome, and "I was too tired" is not considered an adequate excuse/defense.

Yes, it seems that your employer is playing fast and loose with YOUR license! Find out the laws in your state PRONTO...file a complaint if need be.

:angryfire

Someday-C.R.N.A. · Aug 10, 2005

IT IS ILLEGAL.

8 hrs. is required between shifts. Your rights as an employee are posted someplace readily available to you at work - that is also the law. Find that posting.

Don't do anything to endanger yourself or anyone else. You won't be much of a "help" if you end up killing somebody (or yourself) on the ride home. (Or at work, for that matter!)

Good luck.

fab4fan · Aug 10, 2005

I hate the term "act of God," because it makes God out to be the bad guy.

An earthquake would be an "act of God." A tsunami would be an "act of God." A colleague going into preterm labor is unfortunate, but it's a nurse manager's problem, not an "act of God."

Please reconsider this; your nurse manager may say she's grateful now, but just watch her beat feet if you make a mistake. Technically, you could be considered "impaired" if you work in such a sleep deprived state.

Would you want such a nurse taking care of you or someone you loved?

dinkymouse · Aug 11, 2005

:lol_hitti

I concede you are all right. Unfortunatly it is legal in my state if: "it leaves a facility(I work ltc) without a nurse on the premises." I have talked with the DON's daughter who also works there and she will point it out to her but I doubt she will change it. I plan to grab a bed and sleep until I am needed. With pay of course. I told her to pass on that I won't do it again and I will also call don tomorrow. Thank you guys for making me get it. I sometimes try to be too nice but realize that it may endanger me or my patients.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Aug 11, 2005

It is your employer who is responsible for providing SAFE and effective care for the institution which they own/manage. Not you; I strongly urge you to make sure that this is legal in your state, because you CAN be held responsible by your state board of nursing if it is not; take care and good luck.
I also don't think this qualifies as an "act of God"; it would fall more under illness of a staff member, and it is the employer's responsibility to cover this, not fellow staff members.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!

Even if "technically" legal by the letter of the law, it is still unconscionable and barred by most practice acts.

Think about it this way. If a patient had been harmed or developed complications during your shift, how would you feel? If such an issue went before the BON, do you honestly think that,"It is permissable under the law of this state to work 24 hours with only a 4 hour break" would save your license?

And another issue, even if a patient had undue complications during your shift...even if it had NOTHING to do with your fatigue...how would it look in a civil court when it comes out that you had worked that many hours? You culd have done nothing wrong but still be smeared in Court.

Just because it is legal does not mean that it is appropriate or right.

The ADON/DON/Nurse manager should have covered, and if they say that there no nurses available, well then why not? We all know that coworkers who are pregnant may have to leave early...why were they not prepared for this contigency? That is a serious error on their part, not having any float/per diem personnel.

And for that matter, there should always be a relief unit...a sister unit that can pick up slack. It is inappropriate for any facility not to have plans for contingencies.

dinkymouse · Aug 11, 2005

I used my assertiveness today! I am proud of myself. I told the don that I didn't want to work that because I didn't think I would be awake enough to be safe. She changed it to 3-11 both days.

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Aug 11, 2005

Dinkymouse,

You wanted to help a coworker, that is commendable, but the DON was looking for an easy fix, one which required no effort on her part. I am glad you had the shifts changed to 3-11.

Someone stated they did not like the term "act of God", sorry, but floods, tornado's, blizzards, hurricanes all fall into this description, along with several others. Preterm labor does not fall under this description. When I posted this term, I had no idea the reason for the schedule being made this way, but I know 8 hours is required between shifts.

Room2Move · Aug 11, 2005

Good for you for standing up for yourself. Today you were a mighty mouse!

prmenrs, RN · Aug 11, 2005

Good for you! Don't forget, you are not her only co-worker--someone else could have covered the shift, too. If you always say "yes", they'll call you first, which is great for overtime on your paycheck, but bad for you! Point out the big picture (I'm already scheduled for blah, blah, do you really want me to do that? I'm not sure that's such a great idea, maybe so-and-so could, she's off? You can help solve the problem w/o killing yourself!

Good luck! (and, if you ask one of the Admins (NurseRatched, NRSKarenRN, Brian), maybe they'll change your user name to mightymouse or something!)