horizontal violence towards grads

Liddle Noodnik · May 8, 2005

I have just started a grad progamme and I am so disappointed at the abuse, sarcasm and absolute failure of those in charge to help in the transition from student to nurse. When you speak up about the lack of support you are targeted specifically with bad allocations that are not to your skill level. Is this normal? I understand there is a shortage of nurses which causes burnout, but if this abuse continues then new grads will do their grad year and then leave, which puts additional burdens on exisiting nurses. Do others have similar experiences? Is there a way to cope with this abuse? I was so excited when I gained my Bachelor of Nursing Sciences, now I'm just disappointed.

I'm sorry to hear it. I had little experience as a nurse with working with grads, but I did have students sometimes and it was utter chaos! It WASN'T the students' fault, it was the fact that the instructor would be yammering at the front desk and the students wouldn't want to bother him/her, so they would go ahead and do stuff ... I was ticked because I could hardly do my assignment. I felt so bad the students weren't getting their needs met and the support they needed! I absolutely ADORED them and wanted to spend time with them but ARGHHH - my own assignment was just so unmanageable!

Jellibum · May 9, 2005

i have just started a grad progamme and i am so disappointed at the abuse, sarcasm and absolute failure of those in charge to help in the transition from student to nurse. when you speak up about the lack of support you are targeted specifically with bad allocations that are not to your skill level. is this normal? i understand there is a shortage of nurses which causes burnout, but if this abuse continues then new grads will do their grad year and then leave, which puts additional burdens on exisiting nurses. do others have similar experiences? is there a way to cope with this abuse? i was so excited when i gained my bachelor of nursing sciences, now i'm just disappointed.

unfortuantly, this is all too common - i find anyway. the students are left to cope on their own without supports while the staff on the unit/ward are left to carry the burden without help either! the clinical educator/preceptor is just chatting up with old mates or is not even from the ward/unit and thus has little to no skills required in that area!

whats left is that students are put down and abused just for wanting to learn. i know some unis in melbourne who have provided no clinical educator for some of their students placements and expected them to cope just as well as their peers with educators.

the only way i found to cope is to just explain the situation and complain to student services at the uni (union - but that's going to change soon anyway!)

Tony35NYC · May 10, 2005

I have just started a grad progamme and I am so disappointed at the abuse, sarcasm and absolute failure of those in charge to help in the transition from student to nurse. When you speak up about the lack of support you are targeted specifically with bad allocations that are not to your skill level. Is this normal? I understand there is a shortage of nurses which causes burnout, but if this abuse continues then new grads will do their grad year and then leave, which puts additional burdens on exisiting nurses. Do others have similar experiences? Is there a way to cope with this abuse? I was so excited when I gained my Bachelor of Nursing Sciences, now I'm just disappointed.

You could start interviewing around at other places to see if you can find a less distressing opportunity, but I recommend that you not take this approach lightly otherwise you'll always find yourself looking for another job. Where I used to work as an Intern, most of the nurses and the docs were very good to work with but a few of them were quite catty and I used to dread working with them. You're going to find some variation of this everywhere you go to work as a new nurse.

Since the people in charge at this place are being abusive and not giving you any support, you'll probably get nowhere working there as a new grad. Why put yourself through that? I would definitely be thinking about looking for employment elsewhere if I were you.

Evie · May 10, 2005

that is so disappointing to hear. where i work the support for grads couldn't be better. i know because i am one! and even in a circumstance where another grad has had a nasty experience with horizontal violence, she has been fully supported by senior nurses.

i guess you don't really know what you're in for until you're in the job and go through the experience :uhoh21:

talaxandra · May 10, 2005

Horizontal violence is bullying - it can be insidious, systematic and endemic, and (as the OP knows) significantly impacts on one's ability to work.

One of the wards in my hospital had this emerge, probably as a result of long-term ward leadership issues, stressful workloads, high staff turn over and a couple of well- (or ill-) placed nasty staff members. When management at a hospital level became aware of the problem, which was months and months after the problem emerged (because many staff suffered with it as long as they had to and then resigned), significant changed were made. A new charge nurse was appointed; management held meetings with the staff to discover what stressors were present and what ideas staff had to resolve or reduce them; regular sessions with the hospital psychologist were held, both with individuals and ward meetings; there was a conscious focus on team building and increasing empathy; and staff were encouraged to be open in expressing concerns and frustrations. It's taking time but things are slowly improving.

Work place bullying is illegal. Your hospital should have an OH&S department. Alternatively (or additionally) the ANF is interested in reducing workplace bullying. Doing something about it is hard, especially when you're 'only' a grad. Perhaps you could sound out other grads about their experiences, for solidarity. I believe that the situation I discussed came to light because a member of staff anonymously notified the CEO and DON.

I wish you luck - it doesn't have to be like this.

Tutly · May 11, 2005

Hi there - I read your message and couldn't help feeling empathy. I think the horizontal violence in this regard begins before graduation in many cases. I'm currently 2nd year and have already come across it, getting a mouthful about 'uni-trained nurses' being a hopeless waste of time on my very first prac. It's a damn shame is all I can say, and you're not alone in experiencing it. As for why it happens, well, until nurses start taking a good look at themselves and viewing themselves as professionals, I don't know if it will improve. Do they realise we look up to them? Do they realise we're usually in awe of their abilities and knowledge and wonder when it will ever come together for us? Qualified and experienced RN's are the lifeline between the theory overload of uni and actual practice - it is the RN's who fill the gap when we graduate. And there are a lot of lovely educators out there who are willing to take us on and patiently teach us. I say educators because I find that some just 'teach' whilst others take the time to really educate. I guess eventually, most of the 'old-school' difficult ones will retire and we will be nursing's future. At least by that point nursing will be provided by people who have made a conscious choice to pay for the quality education of their chosen vocation, instead of people who've ended up being a nurse just because years ago there weren't many other options. We've made the choice to do our degree, knowing full well we won't be completely prepared for the ward when we register, but we're keen and enthusiastic and we want to be here. We'll also have a massive HECS debt that we'll earn little to help pay off, but we'll love what we do, and at some point, there will be more of us 'new-school' than there will be of the 'old-school' grumpies. Hang in there - a couple of years experience in the thick of things and you'll find your groove. You're paving the way for all those coming behind you, so don't be intimidated, we need you not to be - you'll be educating students in a few years time.

talaxandra · May 14, 2005

Horizontal violence is workplace bullying. While it can be a manifestation of conflict about nursing education and philosophies, I think it's a mistake to attribute the phenomenon solely, or even significantly, to this aspect, if for no other reason than the idea that it will go away when older nurses leave.

The last hospital-based programs in Australia finished up at the end of 1992/beginning of 1993, and tertiary-level courses had begun a decade earlier. But there was horizontal violence when all nursing was hospital-based, and there may well be a problem even after all the difficult, old-school nurses, disgruntled about lack of career choice in their youth, are gone.

Horizontal violence occurs when people who are placed under stress have ineffective ways of managing that stress. Nurses are often given a lot of responsibility, with minimal ability to effect change; the work is often physically, intellectually and emotionally draining, and there is little recognition of these facts.

Systematic (or institutionalised) horizontal violence should be a warning sign to management. It is expensive, as it leads to ncreased staff turnover, increased sick leave, and a nasty cycle of impaired ward/unit morale.

Grace Oz · May 20, 2005

Hi there - I read your message and couldn't help feeling empathy. I think the horizontal violence in this regard begins before graduation in many cases. I'm currently 2nd year and have already come across it, getting a mouthful about 'uni-trained nurses' being a hopeless waste of time on my very first prac. It's a damn shame is all I can say, and you're not alone in experiencing it. As for why it happens, well, until nurses start taking a good look at themselves and viewing themselves as professionals, I don't know if it will improve. Do they realise we look up to them? Do they realise we're usually in awe of their abilities and knowledge and wonder when it will ever come together for us? Qualified and experienced RN's are the lifeline between the theory overload of uni and actual practice - it is the RN's who fill the gap when we graduate. And there are a lot of lovely educators out there who are willing to take us on and patiently teach us. I say educators because I find that some just 'teach' whilst others take the time to really educate. I guess eventually, most of the 'old-school' difficult ones will retire and we will be nursing's future. At least by that point nursing will be provided by people who have made a conscious choice to pay for the quality education of their chosen vocation, instead of people who've ended up being a nurse just because years ago there weren't many other options. We've made the choice to do our degree, knowing full well we won't be completely prepared for the ward when we register, but we're keen and enthusiastic and we want to be here. We'll also have a massive HECS debt that we'll earn little to help pay off, but we'll love what we do, and at some point, there will be more of us 'new-school' than there will be of the 'old-school' grumpies. Hang in there - a couple of years experience in the thick of things and you'll find your groove. You're paving the way for all those coming behind you, so don't be intimidated, we need you not to be - you'll be educating students in a few years time.

These comments are exactly why there's the dis-unity in the profession today!

Bullying in the workplace is illegal...period! There's NO room for it regardless of who trained where/when.

Seek out an interview with the unit manager, or the DON if necessary. State your concerns and ask for help! Under NO circumstances try to tough it out alone. There IS help available. Get PRO-active in obtaining the assistance, help, guidance, you need.

Best Wishes ......

Tutly · May 20, 2005

These comments are exactly why there's the dis-unity in the profession today!
Bullying in the workplace is illegal...period! There's NO room for it regardless of who trained where/when.
Seek out an interview with the unit manager, or the DON if necessary. State your concerns and ask for help! Under NO circumstances try to tough it out alone. There IS help available. Get PRO-active in obtaining the assistance, help, guidance, you need.
Best Wishes ......

I think you're all fooling yourselves. Yes - workplace bullying is illegal etc etc, but I've also been around long enough to know that very little is successfully done about it, regardless of all the rhetoric about help being available.The reason for that is that most workplace bullying is enacted in intangible ways with very few witnesses, and I hate to remind you of this people, but nurses are not known for their loyalty to each other. It's all the little things that add up to make workplace bullying and most of it is insidious, hence the victim often becomes the offender by making accusations that are difficult for management to follow up. Another thing is that the bullies are usually people who know their system inside and out, and they cover their tracks very well, in this regard, it's very hard to discipline them without them crying harrassment themselves. You can all get up in arms about my comments if you want, but I've actually worked on reform programs in the public sector in relation to this, and been extensively involved with the Indistrial Relations Commisssion of NSW, examining these very issues. The problem is often with management being too gutless to tackle a bully head on and confront actions that are difficult to prove. How many times do you hear someone say "oh don't worry - she's like that all the time, or "she's like that with everyone". It is these things about nursing that need to change. It seems every employment situation have staff that are problems, yet everyone tip-toes around them and walks on egg-shells. They seem to have everyone under their intimidating spell. And that's my point - until everyone sticks together on the issue and actually makes a formal complaint, very little will be done. And believe me, making a formal complaint brings it's own consequences. If you truly believe that by doing so, you will have the support of your colleagues and they would be happy to put their signatures on paper, and you won't be isolated for it, go for it. But that's where the rhetoric gets tested folks. Nurses need to be loyal and supportive of each other, rather than being so harsh and critical in a workplace environment that is already under a huge amount of pressure.

Grace Oz · May 21, 2005

Tutly, please RE-READ my post! Then go away and really think about just what I wrote!

ceridwyn · May 21, 2005

Theres one or two in every profession.

I am always amused by the look on the their faces, when I thank these nurses for all their help and kindness when finishing for the day/shift/prac.

You can see the cogs turning as they are trying remember when they were kind and helpful!!! Lets them know it was well and truly noticed and will not be forgotton. Gives me a laugh and it hasen't ruined my day or week.

As a casual you often need help to find something or who to contact.

Most of the time we all help and have professional attitudes towards each other.

I have just begun working at a law firm for a change of profession and started the degree. You should see what happens on this side of the fence!!

C