Homeopathics and Cancer

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Does anyone have information about how homeopathic pharmacognosis works on cancer patients?

Do you think this kind of treatment is effective?

Specializes in Medical-Oncology.
Because they don't. As the poster above said, they make you feel better, and I'm all for that, but they are not cures.

Yes, but there is no Western cure for many illnesses either -- MS, cancer, AIDS, etc. So, if alternative therapies at the very least treat the symptoms, as do many Western medical treatments, what makes them less useful?

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
While a couple of "alternative" therapies are employed in some medical institutions, they are limited to "mind/body" applications, and are never offered up as actual therapy for real diseases. We offer them to patients for the same reasons we offer therapeutic massage: "This won't actually make you better, but it might make you feel better. What to give it a try?"

I am baffled at why you think things like chiropractics, Reiki, herbals, meditation, and especially prayer, have been "officially approved" by any medical organization. Let me assure you, most of us continue to tell our patients that these therapies don't work.

I guess I have to put my two cents in regarding chiropractic. If it didn't work, why does my insurance company pay for it?

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Specializes in Corrections, neurology, dialysis.
Yes, but there is no Western cure for many illnesses either -- MS, cancer, AIDS, etc. So, if alternative therapies at the very least treat the symptoms, as do many Western medical treatments, what makes them less useful?

Right, if it is working and the patient feels better. But if it is not working and the patient doesn't feel better, we try something else. With MS and AIDS we know they aren't going to get better. We do not have the expectation that their palliative care is going to cure them.

My problem with CAM is the claim that a person can be "cured". My heartbreak is people who buy into this belief and basically have been sold snake oil.

Tired MD, I like what you said about not rejecting all things natural. That's not what I am saying either. I am a huge advocate of exercise, proper diet, fresh air and sunshine. I advocate eating natural foods over processed if you can manage to. What I object to are claims that certain therapies can "cure" when there is no sound medical evidence to support this claim. And going back to what Tired MD has said is another of saying what I tell people all the time - lightening, poison ivy, volcanoes, mercury and radon are natural too. Does that mean they're good for you?

I also find it interesting that the drugs most like to cause an anaphylactic reaction are those that are derived from plants. It gives me pause.

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Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.

right now I have my Copper on

Right now I have my crystals on

Right now I have my magnets on

I have my balls with me

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Specializes in ER, Med/Surg.
I also find it interesting that the drugs most like to cause an anaphylactic reaction are those that are derived from plants. It gives me pause.

Could that be because they are thing that your body is SUPPOSED to recognize? Because they are "natural".

I think that things can't be discounted just because they haven't been "scientifically" proven to work. IE: Prayer.

Pat

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I am a huge advocate of exercise, proper diet, fresh air and sunshine. I advocate eating natural foods over processed if you can manage to. What I object to are claims that certain therapies can "cure" when there is no sound medical evidence to support this claim.

I agree 100%.

I could care less if someone wants to wear copper and magic crystals, as long as they still take their beta-blocker for their heart failure, and talk to a surgeon about their breast cancer.

What bothers me . . . no, let me rephrase . . . what absolutely destroys me, are the young and middle age patients with treatable conditions who refuse medical care (because it hurts, or will have side effects, or will make their hair fall out) in favor of snake-oil.

I have had parents tell me about their "herbal" treatment of their child's asthma, as the kid is turning blue on the gurney. I have seen stage IV breast cancer, diagnosed at stage I, where the woman continues to insist that the chelation therapy will kick in any day now. I have seen lives that could have been saved, but never will be. Not all that many (I'm young in my career), but even one is far too many.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
I agree 100%.

I could care less if someone wants to wear copper and magic crystals, as long as they still take their beta-blocker for their heart failure, and talk to a surgeon about their breast cancer.

What bothers me . . . no, let me rephrase . . . what absolutely destroys me, are the young and middle age patients with treatable conditions who refuse medical care (because it hurts, or will have side effects, or will make their hair fall out) in favor of snake-oil.

I have had parents tell me about their "herbal" treatment of their child's asthma, as the kid is turning blue on the gurney. I have seen stage IV breast cancer, diagnosed at stage I, where the woman continues to insist that the chelation therapy will kick in any day now. I have seen lives that could have been saved, but never will be. Not all that many (I'm young in my career), but even one is far too many.

I repeat:

I should clarify that my curiosity included conventional treatment with homeopathics as an adjunct.

Actually, when I started this thread I was looking for information. Somehow, it turned into a debate. I'm still wondering how that happened, since according to what you just posted, we essentially agree.

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I understand how frustrating it is to see someone harm themselves through sheer ignorance. I've seen it too.

But I do really believe that Americans have become too trusting of drug companies. Most fund their own drug studies and have the power to push their medicines through the FDA and onto a largely ignorant public. As you know.

Lest we forget, some of these conventional therapies can harm. Note how many medicines have been taken off the market because they were found to harm as much as heal.

It is therefore my opinion that we don't know as much as we think we know. We should not close our minds to all alternative therapies just because some have not been proven to work.

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Specializes in Medical-Oncology.

Angie,

The truth is, many Asian countries have different, yet successful methods for treating cancer than we have in the West. That information is not readily available to us. I am not talking about treating symptoms. I am talking about a cure.

I am not sure how much truth lies in the following statement, and I hope TiredMD and others don't decide to jump on me for it.... I am trying to find hard evidence, but don't have it yet. I heard from my friend who visited the ayurvedic doc that MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, the #1 cancer hospital in the USA, wanted to explore what China and other Asian nations have done to treat cancer so effectively without chemo and radiation. Their discovery was inspiring and surprising. When they approached the FDA trying to get these natural drugs available to treat their patients, the FDA shot them down. Most likely, because no big money can be made from herbs and such, lobbyists and other big pharm supporters will not allow certain things to be approved.

Such is the case with other illnesses. Why would big pharm want to support a cure for MS when they are making at least $1,500 per month off medicines from each patient?

Here is a link to some information on Traditional Chinese Medicine from MD Anderson. It includes some herbs and their uses. There are studies being done. Very interesting.

http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/cimer/display.cfm?id=1B608136-F1C3-43B5-A3E14B864D2D14C6&method=displayFull&pn=6EB86A59-EBD9-11D4-810100508B603A14

I hope you find it useful. Thanks for starting this thread.

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Specializes in Pain Management.
I agree 100%.

I could care less if someone wants to wear copper and magic crystals, as long as they still take their beta-blocker for their heart failure, and talk to a surgeon about their breast cancer.

What bothers me . . . no, let me rephrase . . . what absolutely destroys me, are the young and middle age patients with treatable conditions who refuse medical care (because it hurts, or will have side effects, or will make their hair fall out) in favor of snake-oil.

I have had parents tell me about their "herbal" treatment of their child's asthma, as the kid is turning blue on the gurney. I have seen stage IV breast cancer, diagnosed at stage I, where the woman continues to insist that the chelation therapy will kick in any day now. I have seen lives that could have been saved, but never will be. Not all that many (I'm young in my career), but even one is far too many.

Perhaps I should clarify - OTC herbals used by laypeople, with limited experience and training [and conventional practitioners with limited training and experience, for that matter] are probably not effective. Chinese herbal formulas used by qualified practioners, somewhat effective:

Pediatr Allergy Immunol. 2006 Aug;17(5):316-22.

Ding Chuan Tang, a Chinese herb decoction, could improve airway hyper-responsiveness in stabilized asthmatic children: a randomized, double-blind clinical trial.Chan CK, Kuo ML, Shen JJ, See LC, Chang HH, Huang JL.

Department of Pediatrics, Division of Allergy, Asthma and Rheumatology, Chang Gung Children's Hospital and Chang Gung University, Taoyuan, Taiwan.

Traditional Chinese medicine has a long history of application in the treatment of bronchial asthma. Solid scientific evidence, however, is not available despite its widespread use among patients worldwide and in Taiwan. To assess the effect of Ding Chuan Tang (DCT) in airway hyper-responsiveness (AHR) on asthmatic children via randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial. This study enrolled children who were aged 8-15 and diagnosed as mild to moderate persistent asthma patients. They were randomly allocated to receive 6.0 g DCT or placebo daily for 12 wk. Self-recorded daily symptom scores, medication scores, and morning and evening peak expiratory flow rates were returned at the monthly clinic. Pulmonary function test, methacholine challenge test, and serum inflammatory mediators were measured before and at the end of the trial. Fifty-two asthmatic children completed the clinical study. Twenty-eight patients were assigned to the treatment group and 24 to the placebo group. At the end of the treatment period, AHR determined by log PC(20) was significantly improved in the DCT group (0.51 +/- 1.05 mg/ml vs. 0.26 +/- 0.84 mg/ml, p = 0.034). The total clinical and medication reduced parameters showed improvement in the DCT group (p = 0.004). The AHR, symptom and medication scores in children with persistent asthma were significantly improved with DCT treat for 12 wk. The results suggested more stable airways achieved with such an add-on complementary therapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16846448&ordinalpos=12&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Phytother Res. 2006 May;20(5):342-7

Clinical evaluation of the Chinese herbal medicine formula STA-1 in the treatment of allergic asthma.Chang TT, Huang CC, Hsu CH.

Graduate Institute of Chinese Medical Science, China Medical University, Taichung, Taiwan.

Although some formulae of traditional Chinese medicines (TCM) have been used for antiasthma treatment, few of them have had sufficient discussion on their efficacy, safety and mechanisms. In this study, the availability of the TCM formula STA-1 for the treatment of allergic asthma was investigated by conducting a double-blind, placebo-controlled and randomized trial. One hundred and twenty patients between the ages of 5 to 20 years with mild-to-moderate asthma were included. These patients were treated with either STA-1 or placebo in a dose of 80 g/kg/day and were administered twice daily for 6 months. The main outcome measures were a daily diary record of symptoms, supplementary bronchodilator and glucocorticoid treatment, changes of pulmonary function (forced expiratory volume in 1 s), changes of total and Dermatophagoides pteronyssinus (DP)-specific IgE and side effects. The results showed a statistically significant reduction of symptom scores, systemic steroid dose, total IgE and specific IgE in the STA-1 group. Furthermore, STA-1 also improved the pulmonary lung function FEV(1) compared with the placebo group and only minimal side effects were shown. These results suggested that STA-1 is available for the treatment of mild-to-moderate chronic asthma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16619360&ordinalpos=14&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Pediatr Allergy Immunol. 2005 Feb;16(1):76-81.

Efficacy and safety of modified Mai-Men-Dong-Tang for treatment of allergic asthma.Hsu CH, Lu CM, Chang TT.

Department of Pediatrics, China Medical University Hospital, Taichung, [email protected]

The aim of this study was to evaluate the efficacy and safety of a Chinese herbal formula modified Mai-Men-Dong-Tang (mMMDT) for treatment of persistent, mild-to-moderate asthma. A total of 100 asthmatic patients were enrolled and assigned to three treatment groups in this double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial. Over a period of 4 months, patients in groups A and B received 80 and 40 mg/kg/day of mMMDT, while those in group C received a placebo. Efficacy variables included changes in forced expiratory volume in 1 s (FEV1), symptom score, serum total immunoglobulin E (IgE), and dust mite-specific IgE. Safety assessments included complete blood count, and liver and kidney function. Relative to baseline, significantly greater increases in FEV1 were demonstrated for both A and B groups in comparison with the placebo-treated analog (both p

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=15693916&ordinalpos=33&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2005 Sep;116(3):517-24.

Efficacy and tolerability of anti-asthma herbal medicine intervention in adult patients with moderate-severe allergic asthma.Wen MC, Wei CH, Hu ZQ, Srivastava K, Ko J, Xi ST, Mu DZ, Du JB, Li GH, Wallenstein S, Sampson H, Kattan M, Li XM.

Weifang Asthma Hospital, Shandong, China. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Chinese herbal medicine has a long history of human use. A novel herbal formula, anti-asthma herbal medicine intervention (ASHMI), has been shown to be an effective therapy in a murine model of allergic asthma. OBJECTIVE: This study was undertaken to compare the efficacy, safety, and immunomodulatory effects of ASHMI treatment in patients with moderate-severe, persistent asthma with prednisone therapy. METHODS: In a double-blind trial, 91 subjects underwent randomization. Forty-five subjects received oral ASHMI capsules and prednisone placebo tablets (ASHMI group) and 46 subjects received oral prednisone tablets and ASHMI placebo capsules (prednisone group) for 4 weeks. Spirometry measurements; symptom scores; side effects; and serum cortisol, cytokine, and IgE levels were evaluated before and after treatment. RESULTS: Posttreatment lung function was significantly improved in both groups as shown by increased FEV(1) and peak expiratory flow findings (P<.001 the improvement was slightly but significantly greater in prednisone group clinical symptom scores use of beta and serum ige levels were reduced to a similar degree both groups t cytokine treated lower prednisone-treated ifn-gamma cortisol decreased increased ashmi no severe side effects observed either group. conclusion: anti-asthma herbal medicine intervention appears be safe effective alternative for treating asthma. contrast with had adverse effect on adrenal function beneficial balance.>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16159618&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

As for the results of the recent German acupuncture studies, I have addressed my concerns about the methodology [German equivalent to medical acupuncturists with 100 hours of training, poor treatment protocol choice, "sham treatment" not really a sham treatment] in other threads, so I won't take this one even further off course...although this thread has been the best discourse on the the topic of CAM / integrative medicine on this board in some time.

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Specializes in Medical-Oncology.
...although this thread has been the best discourse on the the topic of CAM / integrative medicine on this board in some time.

I wonder if any of the folks who frequent the Oncology Nursing and Holistic Nursing forums have seen this thread and have any input. How can we bring it to their attention?

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Specializes in Pain Management.
I wonder if any of the folks who frequent the Oncology Nursing and Holistic Nursing forums have seen this thread and have any input. How can we bring it to their attention?

I'm not sure, but it has been my experience that most threads die quickly when placed into one of the "specialty forums"...unless it is about CRNA's versus AA's.

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Specializes in Corrections, neurology, dialysis.
Angie,

The truth is, many Asian countries have different, yet successful methods for treating cancer than we have in the West.

The other significant difference between Asian and Western medicine is that people aren't as likely (or dont' have the means) to sue if the treatment doesn't work. For better or worse, treatment in the U.S. has to be backed up with solid evidence and data if it winds up in court.

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