I recently had to visit the ER at my clinical site because I fainted during a procedure and hit my head (hard). As a precaution, the M.D.s ordered an EKG done. The next day my classroom instructor asked me about how I was feeling privately outside our classroom (she knows because she coordinates all the clinical rotations and clinical instructors report to her). A student who overheard us said loudly in the hallway "Oh, yeah, I saw your EKG." She was not a party to the conversation and was listening in. She is an employee at the clinical site but was not part of the group of people caring for me (more on my extreme embarassment later).
After thinking it over, I called the Pt. Advocate Dept. at the hospital. I don't want her fired but I DEFINITELY don't want that happening again. While the fainting was no great secret (kind of funny, actually), I felt that someone announcing what test I had done (and even that she saw it) was out of line.
I would have said something on the spot to her but I was about to take a test and blowing a gasket over it right then would have really been detrimental to my grade (as if my concussion was any help!)
It doesn't matter whether the OP "likes" the other student or not. Nor is it relevant what job the other student holds (unless she was snooping outside the scope of her positiion). It doesn't even matter that the OP brought up the topic and the other student was just commenting on it as she passed by.
A violation is a violation. The offending student may have had a legitimate reason to run across the results, but it is not her place to say anything to anyone--the OP, an instructor, another student--about what she saw. The exception to that would be if the OP brought it up to the peer and opened the door herself, so to speak. To make a remark in passing in a public hallway and interject herself into a conversation she wasn't even a part of reveals a serious lack of understanding regarding patient confidentiality.
calling her job will get her fired no doubt in my mind about that, and this is something that could follow her.
Yes, this is a possibility. But people who work in healthcare are darn near bludgeoned over the head with the importance of following HIPAA regulations from the outset. I work for two different hospitals and have signed up to be a volunteer at the third. HIPAA education is a big deal at all three, for everyone, including volunteers. You can't even look up your own information without getting in trouble. And things like not talking about patients in public areas, a cafeteria or an elevator for example, are stressed ad nauseum during mandatory yearly education for everyone from housekeeping on up to the administrative staff. If the peer didn't realize she was crossing the line, she needs some intense re-education. The fact that she was talking about a fellow student doesn't excuse what she did. Can you imagine someone blabbing a co-worker's information in this manner.
At least the OP asked for her job to be spared. Had the other student done this with a patient, that person might well call up demanding she be fired. She may lose her job anyway, but the fault is her own for doing something so incredibly stupid--and with an instructor as a witness. Sheesh!
The other student exercised extremely poor judgment. The OP has mentioned several things--some circumstantial, some related to the demeanor of the other student--that kept her from approaching the peer directly. I hope reporting the girl doesn't get her fired, but maybe the shock of being called on the carpet will wake her up and help her safeguard her patients' privacy--and her nursing license--down the road.
To me it is not yet clear how this person happened to see test. This has not been answered yet. I do not see how we have all of the facts, also is telling the patient you have seen their results without divulging the results in fact a violation of HIPPA. I am not sure about this depending how it was seen to begin with.
Since we are talking about HIPPA, I was really disheartened this week at clinicals my instructor (who is also employed by a hospital that will be our next rotation) told the entire group 2 different Dr.s full names that she had as pts. She included why they were there, what meds they took, and quoted them regarding their refusal of care. This is who will guide my education?! Well if anything I know what not to do! I feel obligated to inform the school or something but am also a little nervous about that option.
Since we are talking about HIPPA, I was really disheartened this week at clinicals my instructor (who is also employed by a hospital that will be our next rotation) told the entire group 2 different Dr.s full names that she had as pts. She included why they were there, what meds they took, and quoted them regarding their refusal of care. This is who will guide my education?! Well if anything I know what not to do! I feel obligated to inform the school or something but am also a little nervous about that option.
To me it is not yet clear how this person happened to see test. This has not been answered yet. I do not see how we have all of the facts,
How the person happened to see the test is something for her employer to sort out. It is a separate issue from whether the announcement she made was appropriate or not. The question here is did she commit one error (blurting out information she had legitimate access to) or two (blurting after snooping). Either is wrong.
also is telling the patient you have seen their results without divulging the results in fact a violation of HIPPA.
It is definitely a violation for several reasons. They were not in the OP's healthcare setting where she would expect to be hearing test results. This was not done over the phone with the peer acting in an official capacity. It was done in a public hallway in passing where anyone in earshot could hear.
As for just mentioning a test without divulging the results, yeah, that's still a problem. Aside from the obvious red flag tests--HIV, STDs, pregnancy--even something like an EKG could pique other people's curiosity. Thanks to human nature and the rumor mill, it doesn't take much to go from, "So-and-so had an EKG done," to, "So-and-so might have to drop out because of heart problems."
Even if there isn't any crazy fallout, the OP's privacy matters. She shouldn't have to answer inquiries from her classmates because her situation was made public by someone else. Granted, her fainting in the clinical setting will certainly have others wondering, but what and how much she reveals should be her choice, not that of a chatty peer.
For the other student to make known that the OP had a test of any sort crosses the line. The OP's health status should have been protected by her peer, not blabbed in a public place.
I'm a little taken aback by the casual attitude that has shown up in this thread. Employers don't take HIPAA concerns lightly. This is federal law we're talking about here. This other student needs to have her eyes opened before behavior like this costs her the nursing license she is working now to obtain.
I appreciate all the discussion here. Thank you to everyone who joined the conversation and helped me think through this. There were some very salient points that were brought up.
1. The worker/student did not work in the ER or in an area where I was cared for.
2. I did not mention to my instructor during this private conversation what, if any, tests I had done. There was private information given in my health hx that is muchmore private than an EKG (for all those that think I'm silly, I DID realize this before I called!!)
3. There is no animosity between the worker/student and myself (at least on my part) but it is not a relationship that lends itself to constructive discussion. If she had said something to me privately, no big deal. Over, done, situation resolved.
4. I didn't expect my instructor to handle this because it wasn't her situation to resolve. It is mine. And whatever choices I made in this area are my responsibility.
5. I never wanted to affect someone's employment. I did want this corrected though.
To me it is not yet clear how this person happened to see test. This has not been answered yet. I do not see how we have all of the facts, also is telling the patient you have seen their results without divulging the results in fact a violation of HIPPA. I am not sure about this depending how it was seen to begin with. quote]
I am not sure where whe works in this hospital (or, for that matter, whether she is an agency employee or a hospital employee) but I am sure it wasn't the ER. I think she is a tech, maybe? Again, not certain. I am not sure if it was a legitimate reason for her to see my information or not.
Diana, thanks for sharing your story. I am sorry this happened to you.
I do believe it is a HIPPA violation, do not get me wrong. It is simply not my personality to just not look at all sides of things though and try to examine as best as I am able to see the ramifications . It does make a good point of how people get themselves into trouble. Once in the hospital elevator, I could not help but overhear two doctors discussing a case. While they did not divulge any names they did give enough information that made it memorable. As I was exiting the elevator I asked them if they felt it was a HIPPA violation to discuss their case in the elevator with someone else present. They laughed stating no as I was a nurse in the hospital. I laughed and said, but I do not have the care of that patient and should not have been privy to anything which was said. They were not being malicious, nor trying to breach HIPPA, they most likely were just engrossed in their conversation and had not even noticed I was there until I said something.
The OP has mentioned several things--some circumstantial, some related to the demeanor of the other student--that kept her from approaching the peer directly. I hope reporting the girl doesn't get her fired, but maybe the shock of being called on the carpet will wake her up and help her safeguard her patients' privacy--and her nursing license--down the road.
That is exactly what I was having difficulty expressing, in a nutshell. Thank you.
Actually, you shouldn't feel bad about it, she did violate your hippa rights, and reading over the posts I have to agree that she probably had some kind of brain freeze, looking at your file even if she didn't say anything was a violation. This would have been an excellent teaching opportunity for your instructor to mention to this student that she was violating HIPPA
If she is doing it with one student...she is most likely doing it with other students as well as the instructors.
A lesson she needs to be taught now. We had this issue with our class. A student was a unit secretary and every day she would tell us very, very person things...for example (not real, but an example of what she would say) if a newspaper reported that a child was abused horrifically, she would say, "Oh yeah, she's on my floor...the mom did ____"
One day, when she was "gossiping", I said, "Do you realize that you are commiting a major HIPAA violation..and if someone reports that to the hospital you could be fired?"
She claimed it was good for learning. I said, "You are not the instructor and right now we are not covering Peds!"
Specializes in M/S, Tele, Sub (stepdown), Hospice.
I have a feeling that the people who think that this isn't a big deal or an EKG is insignificant are probably the ones that look in other people's medical records...IMO
rn/writer, RN
9 Articles; 4,168 Posts
It doesn't matter whether the OP "likes" the other student or not. Nor is it relevant what job the other student holds (unless she was snooping outside the scope of her positiion). It doesn't even matter that the OP brought up the topic and the other student was just commenting on it as she passed by.
A violation is a violation. The offending student may have had a legitimate reason to run across the results, but it is not her place to say anything to anyone--the OP, an instructor, another student--about what she saw. The exception to that would be if the OP brought it up to the peer and opened the door herself, so to speak. To make a remark in passing in a public hallway and interject herself into a conversation she wasn't even a part of reveals a serious lack of understanding regarding patient confidentiality.
Yes, this is a possibility. But people who work in healthcare are darn near bludgeoned over the head with the importance of following HIPAA regulations from the outset. I work for two different hospitals and have signed up to be a volunteer at the third. HIPAA education is a big deal at all three, for everyone, including volunteers. You can't even look up your own information without getting in trouble. And things like not talking about patients in public areas, a cafeteria or an elevator for example, are stressed ad nauseum during mandatory yearly education for everyone from housekeeping on up to the administrative staff. If the peer didn't realize she was crossing the line, she needs some intense re-education. The fact that she was talking about a fellow student doesn't excuse what she did. Can you imagine someone blabbing a co-worker's information in this manner.At least the OP asked for her job to be spared. Had the other student done this with a patient, that person might well call up demanding she be fired. She may lose her job anyway, but the fault is her own for doing something so incredibly stupid--and with an instructor as a witness. Sheesh!
The other student exercised extremely poor judgment. The OP has mentioned several things--some circumstantial, some related to the demeanor of the other student--that kept her from approaching the peer directly. I hope reporting the girl doesn't get her fired, but maybe the shock of being called on the carpet will wake her up and help her safeguard her patients' privacy--and her nursing license--down the road.