HELP! Should I give up!?

LeahJet, ASN, RN · Nov 18, 2005

depends on the situation.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Nov 19, 2005

My heart is aching for you. I am not a nurse, so cannot answer your question. I do wish someone could help you soon.

Meanwhile, may I add you to my prayer list?

Hugs,

Jess

blurrgurrl · Nov 19, 2005

...................

bloviate · Nov 19, 2005

Hire an attorney

Mulan · Nov 19, 2005

What type of incident was it? I think that would be a determining factor in whether or not another school would admit you.

The advice about an attorney is probably a good idea, at least talk to one and see if they can help you at all.

Good luck.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Nov 19, 2005

Aww...thank you so much. That means alot to me. I really don't want to give up on my dream. I have spent the last 5 years working for this..and my financial aid...is used up. My only hope is applying to the ADN program at my community college --- but how do I explain this??

I am not going to ask you to share the incident. I do however agree that you should speak with an attorney. I am sure something can be done. Don't give up. Things do happen for a reason, only God knows why.

Don't settle now. Get as much help as you can in the case. You WILL graduate. I truly believe you will, even if it elsewhere.

Best wishes to you and continued prayers

august_snow · Nov 19, 2005

as a student nurse, i can see and feel your devastation! the attorney thing is a good idea.

since you have completed so much of the program-would you be allowed to sit for something like the lpn exam so that you can at least get into the field?

you are in my thoughts and prayers-i really wish you the best.

blurrgurrl · Nov 19, 2005

.............

Corvette Guy · Nov 19, 2005

I really need advice from nurses who understand nursing schools. I have been dismissed from my B.S.N program for a clinical situation. In the event I file a petition to be allowed to continue, (please know I am in my last class and I am 45 thousand dollars in debt) that I probably will not be re-admitted. The tone of the director's voice, her looking at me, the way she insisted the faculty decided ... I was to be "let go" tells me I have no hope of being re-admitted.
I have done so well in this program, A's and B minuses, but I made a clinical mistake which I took responsibility for. I did not lie, or blame anyone but myself. Can any of you please tell me if you are dismissed from a B.S.N. program, is it possible to still become a nurse? I am concerned for my future. This has been my dream. Please..any advice...or insight would be appreciated.

IMHO, valid advice cannot be given unless the "clinical situation" is disclosed.

EwwThat'sNasty · Nov 19, 2005

I believe it is possible to become a nurse if dismissed, generally. If you have no license in your state then you have no license to revoke. On the other hand, if the "clinical mistake" was serious it may leave you in a quandary. Since honesty is an element of nursing, even absent a revoked license, one may feel compelled to " 'fess up" in an eventual application to another school, or to a Board of Nursing, even if the mistake was not serious enough to warrant a license suspension or termination. There is the concept of self-slander, where a person in certain circumstances must in effect announce accusations, even if they are unfounded. Thus the potential self-slander. So you are indeed in a quandary. The question that stands is: was the mistake truly serious enough? Are you being treated fairly?

Let's focus on the clinical error. If the error was doubling the amount of morphine because "you knew that the MD's order was just not enough;" or if you made a significant error that could or did cause harm, then there would be reason to terminate you from the program. But what if you gave say, a patient an antibiotic, orally, that was supposed to be given at 8PM, and accidentally gave it at 8AM? Every nurse will make errors in their life. I believe that. The trick is to check and double check so that significant errors are never, ever made. Would that mistake be reason for suspension or termination....I don't think so, unless made repeatedly.

Errors are treated differently by each facility, by each unit, and by each person such as a charge nurse. Oddly I have found that miniscule errors in very non-critical care are sometimes treated harshly, whereas sometimes seemingly very significant errors in very critical care scenarios are treated non-harshly. Consider the 8AM/8PM scenario. I lost my first medical position because of that exact error...let's forget that in fact it was not my error but another staff member whom I "wrote up." Odd...eh? Now consider an error I witnessed in a major adult ICU. In this case an entire bag of narcotic analgesic was pumped into a patient in less than an hour, when the bag should have lasted more than 20 hours. Luckily the person was vented, so that patient simply was, shall we say, quite pain-free for a while. One might think that that nurse lost their job, while the former 8A/8P nurse wouldn't, yet in fact, the opposite happened.

So let's look at your mistake. Was it intentional or accidental? Was it an error that logic should have caught? (For instance I remember a nurses' error where the nurse crushed up six tablets of thyroxin, having read micrograms as milligrams--now I think that nurse ought to have been canned, she wasn't.) Or was it an error where one forgot to give it at the right time? Even then, was it an essential cardiac med, or one that a few hours might in fact, make little or no difference. Get the point? Consider that there is a concept of "Standard of Care," that makes legal sense to a Court. If you truly violated an expected Standard of Care, that was significant, and intentional, you're toast.

But consider this. Nurses who steal narcotics due to addiction, but not from a patient, who successfully completes a program to control their addiction are often allowed into practice after a suspension. Well, your institution of nursing, indeed, the director of such institution holds a responsibility to consider her actions. If a professor was found to be addicted to a substance would they fire her, or allow her to be rehabilitated and come back to work? (The most likely scenario) If your mistake would not be considered so serious that a Board of Nursing would revoke or suspend you, you probably should be allowed to continue. Especially considering that generally, your credits are NOT transferable to another BSN school. The school itself owes you a contractual duty that is defined by the law of your state.

A few possibilities come to mind. You could contact your BON and simply ask, would what I have done be grounds for suspension or termination of my license if I had one? This entails some risk, though you could do it anonymously. So another thought is to find a RN lawyer that specializes in Duty of Care cases. They exist, and I know of one in Maine that I consulted with the odd 8AM/8PM mistake that someone else made, for which I lost my first medical job. Should I have lost that job? According to her, absolutely not.

Possibilities to find the right lawyer are:

Search Google using keywords: "registered nurse" "standard of care" lawyer

(use the quotes where indicated)

Find your state nursing association or ANA chapter and call/write people there, president, vice president, etc.

Hire a local lawyer, they generally can find a specialist.

Time is of the essence. I suggest that you first consider the nature of your mistake. If you feel that it was serious, intentional, or something that you would have unquestionably lost an RN license had you one to lose, you will probably get nowhere.

If the mistake was not serious, not intentional, or if the mistake was such that it would be something that a student was likely to make (remember...your instructors hold responsibility also) then quick, get a lawyer. You have much to lose. (say $45k plus the time....) Even if you can start anew, almost all schools will ignore any nursing credits, though you can likely keep some such as A&P (maybe).

Many nursing schools are like boot camps, especially the ADN degrees. They can be brutal. However they all have the responsibility to treat students fairly. Yet schools, by and large, especially if they are state funded, have little fear of legal ramifications. This is sometimes ego, sometimes arrogance, and sometimes just plain stupidity. Ultimately, though I hope you never have to go through a lawsuit with a college, a court "may" make it right. But acting quickly with legal counsel may well force the school to find a way to accommodate theirs and yours needs. Who wants a five year lawsuit? (hint: neither of you)

Check out: Nursing Magazine September 2003,. Medication Errors

From this article:

"By one estimate only 5% or less of medication errors are reported at all. Nurses who report their own errors or errors they discover are probably conscientious and know that reporting errors helps identify and correct recurring problems. And nurses who are frequently reported by others for errors may not be "liked" by others in the unit for reasons that have little to do with competence."

Also:

"Unfortunately, some health care facilities and even some state nursing boards reinforce the attitude that error reporting correlates with competence by imposing a "three strikes and you're out" rule or by using a point system based on error severity that can lead to a nurse's suspension or firing."

This sounds like your first mistake...not your third.

Lastly, Lateral Violence in nursing is common. It is not only found in units but can also be found in education. If this is a personality problem, consider going to your school's social counselor or to the President's office and ask for someone to help. Or is there another teacher that you can ask to act as intermediary? Do they have a student advocate?

Good luck!

PS... I just noticed that you have edited 5 of your posts from May that also relate to a "problem." It appears odd to me that you essentially deleted the content of those posts and it cannot help but make me wonder....

Though what I have written above still stands what I have said to my best friend once may be worth thinking about. After he told me for the fourth time that his boss new boss at each job turned out to be a jerk, I had to say "if this happens over and over, then it might be best to look closely at oneself."

Perhaps this is not your first mistake? If in your life you repeatedly have problems with authority, and I'm not insinuating that, but I do wonder, then being honest about an attitudinal problem may help.

You have gone this far.... I hope you find your place...persevere....and continue always, to be honest in all ways....

mtnmom · Nov 19, 2005

was a patient harmed or endangered as a result of your "clinical mistake"?

was it a "sentinel event"?

was this the first "clinical mistake" you had ever had?

And then,

does your school have a "grievance" procedure or anything of the sort? where i went to school, we had a grievance council (I served on it for 2 years) that would hear details in cases and make recommendations to the Dean. We did have a case where a student was going to be dismissed for a mistake, and due to mitigating factors that came out in the hearing (and the fact that no one had been harmed) we were able to successfully recommend to the Dean that she be given one more chance. I cannot guarantee that this would be your outcome but depending upon the nature of the mistake and the circumstances surrounding it - maybe.

I am truly sorry for your situation.